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Still Waters

Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

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HandsomeGorilla

Damnit, what country do we need to invade and destabilize now?!

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susieice
2 minutes ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

Damnit, what country do we need to invade and destabilize now?!

Don't worry Huckleberry. We're already in Afghanistan and we kind of populate the US.

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FLOMBIE
5 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

This  issue isnt a country....its a faith, warped one for sure.....but still, faith, a set of beliefs... a rigid conviction

a religious war, one we should not fear fighting thru political correctness BS....

Most people aren't even religious in our societies. 

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susieice

It only takes one, of any religion, to impose on the freedoms of the many.

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and then
2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Oh, I don't doubt their attitudes matching hardcore religious attitudes here on homosexuality. I have read various accounts on their beliefs and what they do.  

Based on the link you provided, ( thank you by the way ) that seems more of one on one, or couple of individuals being pursued and being judged. It doesn't seem to be coming into a joint to shoot down a mass populace like it was in Paris and here at the Pulse club. And if I'm getting the link you provided correctly, there seems to be an ideal way of punishing homosexuals and it seems to have to be very very brutal. Not just shooting the all, from what I gather. 

What I'm assuming, is that based on what I have seen of their mass populace targets, a particular place for where a certain part of the populace goes to, doesn't seem to show the wide attention, that I have seen in other shootings. Like a cafe, a concert arena, military bases, or public areas where a political conference or such takes place. 

To me, it's like they want to hit it big and show their contempt for all sorts of 'vices' or attitudes at the same time, not one sole area for one sole hatred for one particular thing. 

Just my assumption of what I have noticed in the past. My point was hoping they find more evidence and show that evidence of their assumptions. I'm probably going to assume that they just will in doing that. I just find it not the same pattern as I have noticed it before. I know, my assumptions of how I see it, from the beginning of the media reports of a situation, does come up wrong, so that could be the case here. :yes: 

SD while I wouldn't say Christians are perfect by ANY measure, this casual lumping of all "religious" types into one big (crazy) vat of hate is just wrong.  I hope that someday you have a chance to see that for yourself by meeting and getting to know someone who personifies Christ's love, not man's hate.  I have no idea what this shooter was motivated by and neither does anyone else at this point.  

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freetoroam
17 minutes ago, susieice said:

CNN is announcing that the St. Lucie police have given information and there is now an unconfirmed report that there may be a connection to ISIS. We'll have to see if this information is confirmed. The spokesman in Orlando said this information did not come from the FBI but a counter-terrorism organization. They believe this shooter has claimed allegiance to ISIS.

"appears to be a link to Islamic radicalism ... some kind of connection to ISIS."

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html

 

Its isis today, yesterday it was al qaeda, truth is they are all part of the same radical, barbaric section of islam. It does not matter what name they are given. 

Years ago Britain had the islamic party of Britain, the party was defunct, as if they would get rid of them!!!!

The radical islamists have to be stopped, banned and anyone who wishes to practice this barbaric religion should be free to do so = in a muslim country. it has no place in the western world, and I think the current shootings is proof of that, as well as all the terrorist attacks in the west by the radical islamists prior to this.

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seeder
7 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Most people aren't even religious in our societies. 

 

perhaps tho MOST people would rather accept a peace loving, forgiving, turn the other cheek...respect your neighbours, be the good Samaritan....LET GOD JUDGE YOUR ENEMIES....point of view? As Jesus proclaimed?

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Stubbly_Dooright
13 minutes ago, and then said:

SD while I wouldn't say Christians are perfect by ANY measure, this casual lumping of all "religious" types into one big (crazy) vat of hate is just wrong.  I hope that someday you have a chance to see that for yourself by meeting and getting to know someone who personifies Christ's love, not man's hate.  I have no idea what this shooter was motivated by and neither does anyone else at this point.  

You really don't know me that well, do you? :no::blink: 

As a retail employee and a wife of a retired Air Force Master Sargent where we lived in various places, I have met so many types of people. I do believe I have posted that info on these boards before. And I don't believe I'm lumping people and religions here. I have stated from my quote here "  Oh, I don't doubt their attitudes matching hardcore religious attitudes here on homosexuality. I have read various accounts on their beliefs and what they do.   " that I'm seeing it in a smaller group of a bigger picture of believers here. That being said, that I'm not lumping all Christians and that's a identifying label you brought into this. I didn't say Christians, did I  now? I guess you may have assumed I meant Christians only. I said hardcore religious attitudes, to also mean I have met various others, not just Christians with that attitude. I have also met Christians, Jewish, Wiccan, Muslims, and such, that have displayed beautiful attitudes that I also assume is their varying beliefs. So your 'someday' happened many times over, and a long time ago in the past. So, why is it that you're just painting Christians as just being those I'm talking about? 

And my point of my original post, is just I noticed or don't seem to think this shooting is the usual target. It seems more lone person, be it a form of their own terrorism or not, because the usual group terrorism would choose a more public area and in a more earlier time of the day. 

Why are you choosing one phrase of my post and narrowing on that to assume I said something that I didn't? 

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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and then

I did so because it seems to be the tenor and direction of other posts on this topic.  If I mis-characterized your outlook then you have my apologies.

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 minute ago, and then said:

I did so because it seems to be the tenor and direction of other posts on this topic.  If I mis-characterized your outlook then you have my apologies.

Thank you. :) 

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Leonardo
11 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I'm just going to apply the rule of law here: It's grossly illegal to go into a public place and slaughter people for any reason.

I'm so sick of all this, we saw it in Paris now it's here in the USA. We need to stop thinking about political correctness and start thinking about our survival. We either get smart or more and more of us will die.

There is no solid indication yet that this was an act of Islamic terrorism, Lilly, so to raise the spectre of Paris in association with the horrible events in Orlando is tantamount to fear-mongering.

I absolutely agree with you about being smart, but being smart doesn't mean jumping to conclusions and making accusations or spreading rumours that don't yet have any basis in fact.

All we know at present, is the gunman was a young male of Afghan heritage and that some media outlets are reporting some allegations regarding his past. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

That is not "being politically correct", it is following the rule of law.

Edited by Leonardo

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Stubbly_Dooright
28 minutes ago, susieice said:

This link includes a pic of the killer. It also mentions the ISIS connection. It seems that Mateen was a security guard.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html

I don't know if I caught it in that link, but where do they mention the ISIS link? 

I know, I wish everything wasn't just a ' a given suggestion that he may have terrorist link ' I think they need to be sure, before reporting it. It seems that these 'supposed suggestions' is getting some thinking there is definitely is a link. I'm not saying that it is a possibly that there is a link or not, just right now, it's just supposed suggestions of a maybe link. I would prefer my news to be reported truth with sources, not conjecture. 

( an I am seeing that the more they find out, the more it could come to that conclusion. I just wish they knew for sure while reporting the situation ) 

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 hours ago, susieice said:

This is now being called the worst mass killing in US history. Many of the wounded are in critical condition.

:(:(:(:( 

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Ashotep said:

It was announced on TV the shooters father is saying the shooter say two gay men kissing and that may be what set him off.

Do you have a link? 

And wouldn't this then label this a hate crime? 

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Ashotep said:

It is being reported that he bragged about having ties to terrorist organizations so I think it was a little more than him just being a Muslim.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/fbi-suspect-bragged-about-ties-to-terrorist-organizations/

 

But according to that link, they still can't publish where they got that information. The article ended in just saying that 'there may have' again. I'm not saying that I don't believe he may have bragged, but I like to see if they have actual evidence of that. 

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bee

.

 

I think these kind of Islamic terrorist atrocities have the appearance of a 'lone' killer thing because they are responding to a general call to war - and the less people involved the better chance they have of being able to pull it off - 

I think sometimes the families do know what is going on and sometimes they might not but they will always deny knowing or they will get prosecuted themselves -

I remember a while back when two young female teenagers supposedly unaided ran away from home (in the UK) and went to Syria to join the Islamic State - 

their father was televised holding this ridiculously big teddy bear and appealing to them to come home - then later pictures of him emerged at an extremist Islamic rally ---   

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Lilly
14 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

There is no solid indication yet that this was an act of Islamic terrorism, Lilly, so to raise the spectre of Paris in association with the horrible events in Orlando is tantamount to fear-mongering.

Care to bet on that?

Better read this first: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-about-20-dead-in-domestic-terror-incident-at-gay-club/?utm_term=.18b81811b879

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), ranking member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said he was briefed Sunday and told that local law enforcement officials said the gunman had “declared his allegiance to ISIS.”

A U.S. official said that Department of Homeland Security reports being circulated to government authorities are “referring to local law enforcement reports saying the shooter pledged loyalty to ISIS and was heard praying in another language in the nightclub.”

The official said it is “unclear” when this alleged pledge to the militant group, also known as the Islamic State and ISIL, was made. “It could have been as simple as a statement shouted at police during the three-hour standoff,” the official said.

Edited by Lilly
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Leonardo
5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Do you have a link? 

And wouldn't this then label this a hate crime? 

Here, Stubbly.

And Mr Mateen's father told NBC News his son became very angry when he saw two men kissing recently in Miami.

I speculated earlier that, instead of being Islamic terrorism is might be a case of a young man going postal due to having repressed his own sexuality. To my thinking that better fits why a nightclub frequented by a gay crowd was targeted than it being the target of Islamic fundamentalists.

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susieice

A hospital spokesman has been talking about the attempt to notify the families of the victims. Because Orlando is such a large tourist destination(Disney World and Sea World are both there) it may be awhile before that can be completed. They are saying not to be surprised if you hear that many victims are from other states or even other countries. 

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GlitterRose
2 hours ago, South Alabam said:

This nation needs to stop having people on thier radar. Round them up those who are on" the radar" or at another untrustworthy level and deport them. As crooked as politics are there is no such thing as political correctness. We need to stop being afraid to hurt peoples feelings and tell it like it is. We haven't started playing cowboys and jihadist yet, and that is where the nation is headed when people get fed up.

He was a US citizen. We don't usually round those up until they actually do something wrong. And we don't typically deport US citizens to the countries of their parents' origin. There are reasons why we have laws like this.

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Stubbly_Dooright
4 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Here, Stubbly.

 

 

I speculated earlier that, instead of being Islamic terrorism is might be a case of a young man going postal due to having repressed his own sexuality. To my thinking that better fits why a nightclub frequented by a gay crowd was targeted than it being the target of Islamic fundamentalists.

Thanks Leo. :) 

The more that time goes on, the more comes out, and it's bits of various information that seems to draw different reasons for the gunman. I would gather that this seems to be a lone gunman situation. Is there more information of any groups that this gunman may have had contact with? 

I'm asking, because I see that there may have been reasons for to tie this to a possible hate crime. One thing is for sure, there is still so much I think the public does not know yet. 

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seeder

Florida governor on Sky news.....(bald guy blue shirt)

"Clearly this is an act of terrorism"

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