Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[bee]

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anyway --- last night there were more details about the attack --- it was THREE hours before the police etc broke in to end it -- were able? to enter and finish it - don't know why it took so long -  - I suppose there were reasons - ?

 

THREE hours those poor people had to endure the most horrific situation --- no wonder most of the wounded survivors were said to be in a critical condition - they could have been lying around wounded for up to 3 hours as it was all going on -- very upsetting to imagine the inside of the club during the attack and what they all went through -

[Deleted]

According to the news update the guy visited the club several times beforehand which would support the closet theory.

[Space Commander Travis]

57 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Your replies are just a mix of deranged, chest pumping hype, spouted from behind a monitor.  Name the last Western Govt post WWII that has become a dictatorship after an election? 

You have a lot more than shotguns?  Usually the first thing a dictatorship does is take control of it's military forces and equipment.  Funny enough, it's being happening for 2000 years since the Roman Empire days.  So you can hust imagine these days with the most advanced western military armory anyone could hope for.... Battle Tanks, Aircraft with Steath Technology and with highly integrated computer technology, Submarines that can launch Cruise missiles from 1000 km away.....  You're convinced your pop guns are going to make a difference against a fully fledged military force?  Dream on buddy. 

Anyway this is totally surreal because an advanced western country would never allow a dictatorship to overrule the will of it's people.  Unless you're trying to tell me that you think the USA is living in the  late middle ages?

The bottom line is the USA has a gun ownership problem, people are reluctant to give up their toys and they believe doing so is being weak (and Liberal).  As if a gun makes you something of a superhero with unlimited powers.

i don't know, there are some points that make sense I think. for a start, to simply say that "an advanced western country would never allow a dictatorship to overrule the will of it's people" is, um, optimistic to say the least, and there might be a case for arguing that it's very possible to envisage such a process happening, and surely Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq are proof that peasants armed with basic weapons can at the very least make life very difficult for sophisticated military powers that wish to suppress opposition.

[Thanato]

3 hours ago, bee said:

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was he getting to know the layout of the night club and familiarizing himself with his targets...?

or did he secretly fancy men ----or both...

He may have relished mixing with the people he intended to murder - it could have given him a buzz -- ?

.

 

Witnesses place him in the club over the past 3 years. That doesnt seem like he is casing the place, more like he was going there for personal reasons.

[Lilly]

As new evidence surfaces it really needs to be posted/considered. I do not personally desire to be further involved in this discussion but new evidence should be included.

New developments:

http://www.people.com/article/omar-mateen-disney-world-scouted-attacks

http://www.businessinsider.com/omar-mateen-saudi-uae-umrah-2016-6

 

[Thanato]

2 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Breaking news, who have 'Fundamentalist Christians' killed this week, year.........

27 November 2015 A fundamentalist Christian Terrorist attacked Planned Parenthood and killed 3 people.

[ellapenella]

On 6/14/2016 at 6:46 AM, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

That's the thing see. The hard right see the word "Socialist", as in National Socialist, and that's all they need to see. It's this insistence that you must either label yourself as "Left" or "Right", and that if you do, you have to label everyone else as either one of you, or one of Them. I suppose it helps greatly (as in this current case) to be able to see things in such simple terms: someone is a Muslim. Therefore they're one of the Enemy who wants to destroy our civilization. Therefore they can be lumped in with all the Enemy, like Hitler, and the Democrats, and Libs, and Muslims. it's also helpful as it save having to face up to the embarrassing truth that some on the hard Religious Right share very many of the same prejudices as those they refer to as the Enemy.

Why does islam create such radicals? For instance in the video i provided at point 12:14 listen to this where the SF soldier who is also part of our anti terrorist unit explain how Kuwait exports Muslims that become radicalized, though Saudi Arabia won't take them, and these Muslims that become radical have started out moderate. Also,when considering that  taqiyya is taught and observed  in Islam how can you possibly compare true Christianity to true Islam as in holding the same values of heart?  do you even understand or know what taqiyya is that they observe and utilize? So please stop with the false comparison of Christianity & Islam.

 

 

[Thanato]

I am not liking how the Media is describing this as the 'Worst Shooting in US History.' It is the Worst Shooting in Modern US History.

[Golden Duck]

56 minutes ago, Thanato said:

27 November 2015 A fundamentalist Christian Terrorist attacked Planned Parenthood and killed 3 people.

Dear's ex-wife claims he doesn't follow the bible - not a fundamentalist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0

[questionmark]

Just now, Mangoze said:

Dear's ex-wife claims he doesn't follow the bible - not a fundamentalist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0

Nice, so can we agree on Christian terrorist then?

 

 

 

 

 

[ellapenella]

On 6/14/2016 at 6:53 AM, Leonardo said:

With respect, bee, I don't see myself as the one trying to fit square-peg facts into round-hole beliefs.

I have a question for you, you debated  with me about gay marriage because Christians don't believe it is the way that God intended but, unlike Islam, Christians are not instructed to kill homosexuals or anyone for that matter.

In fact Jesus would enter  any house that welcomes him , but when we open up our heart for Jesus we become more aware of the importance and love in God's will in our lives.  I don't understand ,it seems like you and a few others have ulterior motives. 

[questionmark]

7 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

I have a question for you, you debated  with me about gay marriage because Christians don't believe it is the way that God intended but, unlike Islam, Christians are not instructed to kill homosexuals or anyone for that matter.

In fact Jesus would enter  any house that welcomes him , but when we open up our heart for Jesus we become more aware of the importance and love in God's will in our lives.  I don't understand ,it seems like you and a few others have ulterior motives. 

That is because, to the contrary of their claims, Christians (and luckily also Jews at this time) don't follow the Bible. Leviticus 20:13 states quite clearly that a man who has sex with a man is to put to death.

Edit: garble.

And while editing: funnily it seez nothing about women having sex with women....

Edited June 14, 2016 by questionmark

[Golden Duck]

6 minutes ago, questionmark said:

Nice, so can we agree on Christian terrorist then?

 

 

 

 

 

Well that is how the Army Of God is described.  

Yet AOG is so at odds with Christian Fundamentalism, anti-abortion terrorist organisation might be more apt

[Saru]

- Thread cleaned -

Could we keep the responses in this thread civil, respectful and constructive please.

Thank you.

[Golden Duck]

8 minutes ago, questionmark said:

That is because, to the contrary of their claims, Christians (and luckily also Jews at this time) don't follow the Bible. Leviticus 20:13 states quite clearly that a man who has sex with a man is to put to death.

Edit: garble.

And while editing: funnily it seez nothing about women having sex with women....

By accepting civil authority, as instructed in 1 Peter 2, Christians are following the Bible.

[Thorvir]

12 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said:

You really shouldn't judge, have you ever been here?

Wow, now's that's an ironic question coming from you.

[Thorvir]

12 hours ago, shadowhive said:

The modular SIG Sauer MCX line was designed in the U.S. after the Department of Defense asked for a compact, quiet rifle able to engage targets out to 300 meters.

So ithere you go. His weapon was expressly made for the military, which I think classifies it very much as a military grade weapon.

I agree this was done by a murderer, no question there. But a murderer with access to a military weapon, designed to kill en masse. If he didn;t have access to that weapon he'd not have been able to kill that many people. So yes, the 'inanimate object' does matter because it made him a more efficient killing machine.

 

But I'll largely leave it at that and bow out (at least for now, it's 2:38 am and the past few days of this has utterly exhausted me)

That is not a "military grade" weapon.  If you're using that logic, then all weapons are military grade weapons.  It's just  a weapon, it's not different than any others in it's class.  You use the term "military grade" to invoke some sort of reaction to garner more attention to yourself.  That's all you're doing.

A true "military grade weapon" is a select-fire one.  You know, an actual assault weapon.

The murderer would have achieved the same level of carnage with a pair of six shooters and a lever action rifle.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[questionmark]

5 minutes ago, Mangoze said:

By accepting civil authority, as instructed in 1 Peter 2, Christians are following the Bible.

Hmm.. and then why do some not accept the civil authority when it comes to abortion?

 

[ellapenella]

On 6/14/2016 at 9:10 AM, Lilly said:

Please link to any posts encouraging people to hate all Islam.

Closely read my posts...I always say "Radical Extreme Jihadist Islam" when discussing this matter...always. I have always made an extremely clear distinction between modern 21st century Islam and the ISIS inspired ideology of Radical Extreme Jihadist Islam.

In what I'm learning of you Lilly, you try hard to be fair. But, please don't ever become politically correct. I think you hold back, I think we all do because of political correctness. If we speak exactly the truth about Islam teachings we get told to be careful because we might hurt someones feelings,even though the truth about Islam is dark.

 I get the impression that even the president ridicules Christianity but tries to enforce political correctness whereas Islam is his concern.  I personally don't like Islam because  in it's true form it's slavery and terror. Mohammad was a slave master and Islam was his tool to enslave.It's the truth.

Look at them in the ME,they can't even live with each other , they continuously kill one another, and now they're being spread globally as we watch helplessly what we're seeing happen to our western civilization whereas they are being sent to. Saudi Arabia should take them not the western world.

 

[Thorvir]

12 hours ago, Thanato said:

But lets take your logic, what are we going to do against Fundamentalist Christians?

Which ones?  The ones flying aircraft into skyscrapers, stoning women and children, beheading people on youtube, or the ones inciting bloody violent jihad in the name of a death cult?  You'll have to be a bit more specific, because this isn't about Christians despite your best efforts to shift blame and ignore the actual reality of the situation.

[Thorvir]

11 hours ago, Thanato said:

And... Christianity teaches what?

/snapsfingers

Pay attention!  This isn't about Christianity.  Give it up.

[Golden Duck]

4 minutes ago, questionmark said:

Hmm.. and then why do some not accept the civil authority when it comes to abortion?

 

Dear's wife gave an hypothesis...

Edited June 14, 2016 by Mangoze

[questionmark]

1 minute ago, Mangoze said:

Dear's wife gave an hypothesis...

If not following the bible is a good justification, why is it not also a justification that Mateen did not follow the Quran by hanging out in gay clubs and sending flirt messages on gay dating platforms?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[Thorvir]

10 hours ago, Merc14 said:

http://conservativetribune.com/hillarys-state-dept-orlando-attack/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=TheFederalistPapers&utm_content=2016-06-13&utm_campaign=manualpost

Following the tragic terrorist shooting attack in San Bernardino in December, it was revealed by a former Department of Homeland Security agent that he had been running a special investigation that potentially could have prevented that attack from taking place.

Now, following the even more deadly mass shooting terrorist assault on a nightclub in Orlando, Florida, that same agent is suggesting that his investigation could have prevented that attack from occurring as well.

According to WND, retired DHS agent Philip Haney had been running a special investigation into a worldwide Islamist movement originating from Pakistan known as Tablighi Jamaat. In the course of his investigation, Haney uncovered numerous connections between several mosques and individuals in the U.S. with known terrorists and terrorist organizations, including Al Qaida and Hamas, among others.

Unfortunately, just as Haney’s investigation was really ramping up, it was shut down in a joint effort by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s State Department and the Civil Rights division of DHS, due to “concern” that the investigation was unfairly targeting Muslims.

Making matters worse, much of the important information and links Haney had documented were summarily deleted in 2012.

Had the investigation not been halted, and the information deleted, there’s no telling what radical Islamic mayhem could have been prevented — including, possibly, the San Bernardino and Orlando attacks.

 

We can't afford any more democrats in office.

 

 

I can't agree more.

[Saru]

- Thread cleaned again -

As this has stopped being a discussion about Sunday's tragedy and has instead degenerated in to bickering there is little point keeping it open.

Closed.