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Still Waters

Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

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susieice
4 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Here, Stubbly.

 

 

I speculated earlier that, instead of being Islamic terrorism is might be a case of a young man going postal due to having repressed his own sexuality. To my thinking that better fits why a nightclub frequented by a gay crowd was targeted than it being the target of Islamic fundamentalists.

If this happened in Miami, why would he go to Orlando? That's almost 250 miles away.

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Leonardo
9 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The young man may indeed have had thoughts of turning to fundamentalism. Anyone remotely conversant with the psychology of repression could explain how a repressed sexuality might be expressed in the form of religious fervour.

But that doesn't mean the act the young man committed was done "in the name of Islam", or because he developed some sympathies with fundamental Islamic groups such as Daesh.

What I am suggesting, is that laying the blame for the act at the door of Islam is premature - even with the knowledge of his religious belief. His actions may have been the result of self-hatred, redirected towards a hatred of gay people. Sure, Islam (among other religions) promotes that homosexuality is "against the will of god", but that is only a reinforcing factor in the young man's motivation - not the driving factor.

Maybe he was convinced to commit the act by others involved with Daesh, but maybe he wasn't.

Edited by Leonardo

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seeder
1 minute ago, seeder said:

Florida governor on Sky news.....(bald guy blue shirt)

"Clearly this is an act of terrorism"

Quote

 

Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) on Sunday called the mass shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando an act of terrorism while issuing a warning to anyone considering launching similar attacks.

"This is clearly an act of terrorism. You just can't imagine this would happen to our community, our state or anywhere in our country, but for somebody to go in there and be an active shooter and take those - that number of lives and injure that many people is clearly an act of terror," Scott told reporters.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283192-florida-gov-orlando-shootings-clearly-an-act-of-terrorism

 

 

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susieice

What proof is there that the man was homosexual? His father says so? Being upset about 2 men kissing can be as much of a religious offense as any repressed sexual desires.

Edited by susieice
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Leonardo
3 minutes ago, susieice said:

What proof is there that the man was homosexual? His father says so? Being upset about 2 men kissing can be as much of a religious offense as any repressed sexual desires.

I have no proof - which is as much as anyone else has that he committed this act because Daesh ordered him to.

If this is a hate crime, is that "terrorism" as some people in authority are claiming it to be?

Edited by Leonardo

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bee
4 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Here, Stubbly.

 

 

I speculated earlier that, instead of being Islamic terrorism is might be a case of a young man going postal due to having repressed his own sexuality. To my thinking that better fits why a nightclub frequented by a gay crowd was targeted than it being the target of Islamic fundamentalists.

 

He will probably get extra praise and admiration from the global islamic  terrorists for targeting homosexuals --

 

IMO his father is trying to muddy the waters and distance himself and his fellow local muslims by claiming he did it just because the victims were gay and he didn't like that -- because of some kissing incident --

 

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Lilly
1 minute ago, Leonardo said:

The young man may indeed have had thoughts of turning to fundamentalism. Anyone remotely conversant with the psychology of repression could explain how a repressed sexuality might be expressed in the form of religious fervour.

But that doesn't mean the act the young man committed was done "in the name of Islam", or because he developed some sympathies with fundamental Islamic groups such as Daesh.

 

When someone proclaims their allegiance to ISIS and slaughters 50 people I don't really care all that much about his/her 'repressed psychology' issues. But after, all I'm only an American that happens to be in their crosshairs.

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GlitterRose
3 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

I have no proof - which is as much as anyone else has that he committed this act because Daesh ordered him to.

If this is a hate crime, is that "terrorism" as some people in authority are claiming it to be?

I'm not jumping on the Daesh bandwagon, but it is clearly an act of terrorism. Typically, people do hate the folks they terrorize, so sure...why not hate crime as well? 

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questionmark

Whatever he was, he was a psycho:

Quote

The ex-wife of the 29-year-old man suspected of killing 50 people in a Orlando nightclub early Sunday said that he was violent and mentally unstable and beat her repeatedly while they were married.

The ex-wife said she met Omar Mateen online about eight years ago and decided to move to Florida and marry him.

At first, the marriage was normal, she said, but then he became abusive.

 

Read more on The Washington Post

which begs the usual question: how did a psycho lay his hands on guns?

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susieice
Just now, Leonardo said:

I have no proof - which is as much as anyone else has that he committed this act because Daesh ordered him to.

All we know now is that he was looked at in the past. That he had ties to extremists. We do know that ISIS has tweeted their approval. It's up to the investigation to show that he pledged alliance to ISIS. That's going to take some time. The situation is still very fluid. Now it's being reported there is a 911 call from the shooter placed during the attack where he pledged allegiance to ISIS. That call will no doubt be released.

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bee
5 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

I have no proof - which is as much as anyone else has that he committed this act because Daesh ordered him to.

 

.

 

there may not have been a specific order directed at him personally --- but they have put out a general call to war for their supporters to do what they can, when they can to kill the western infidels.... ??

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Leonardo
Just now, Lilly said:

When someone proclaims their allegiance to ISIS and slaughters 50 people I don't really care all that much about his/her 'repressed psychology' issues. But after, all I'm only an American that happens to be in their crosshairs.

There's no need for bitter remarks about some perceived "Ivory Tower" you might believe I sit in, Lilly. Fundamentalist terrorism has raised its ugly head over here too, as well. We all live with the spectre of it.

All I am attempting to do, is to calm down the rhetoric by reminding people that there is a lot that is unknown - including the exact nature of the young man's religious affiliation. While it might be natural in the current climate to jump on the "Islamic terrorism" bandwagon, doing so only heightens the state of fear while not helping to arrive at the truth of what happened. And it is only through arriving at that truth that things can be put into motion to try to prevent it reoccurring.

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GlitterRose

Even if it's proven that he did this because of an allegiance to Daesh...that's an allegiance to Daesh. That doesn't lay it at the doorstep of Islam in general. That's why people don't want to say "Islamic Terrorist," because it relates it to everyone else who is Muslim. Just like most Christians would not shoot up an abortion clinic, most Muslims would not shoot up a gay nightclub. 

How would Christians feel if every instance where a Christian killed people was labeled as "Christian Terrorism?"

Edited by ChaosRose

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Leonardo
7 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm not jumping on the Daesh bandwagon, but it is clearly an act of terrorism. Typically, people do hate the folks they terrorize, so sure...why not hate crime as well? 

I actually agree that hate-crimes are a form of terrorism, ChaosRose. I'm just not sure that this is the "version" of terrorism that authorities are referring to, and by doing so they may only be making people more jumpy and prone to knee-jerk reaction.

Even if it proven that he did this because of an allegiance to Daesh...that's an allegiance to Daesh. That doesn't lay it at the doorstep of Islam in general. That's why people don't want to say "Islamic Terrorist," because it relates it to everyone else who is Muslim. Just like most Christians would not shoot up an abortion clinic, most Muslims would not should up a gay nightclub.

I have no problem in referring to such acts by any person or group who claims as their reason for committing the acts their affiliation to Islam, "Islamic terrorism", ChaosRose. In the same regard, if the person claimed affiliation of Christianity I would refer the act as "Christian terrorism".

I don't see that as smearing all Muslims or Christians with the same brush, just acknowledging what the perpetrators claimed as their reason for committing the act.

Edited by Leonardo

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susieice

Now it's being said that Mateen referenced the Boston Marathon bombers in this 911 call. I suspect the call will be made public soon.

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South Alabam
13 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

He was a US citizen. We don't usually round those up until they actually do something wrong. And we don't typically deport US citizens to the countries of their parents' origin. There are reasons why we have laws like this.

At the time after reading all articles, I had no idea who he was, where he was born etc.. I am now informed that he was indeed a US citizen. However, the FBI has many on the radar that aren't born here like the San Bernandino shooters, one was born here, the other wasn't.

 

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susieice

Breaking news on another potential attack in LA that was stopped when a neighbor reported suspicious activity last night resulting in arrest. Waiting to hear how this progresses. LA is hosting a gay pride festival today. Police do not believe there is any connection to what happened in Orlando.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/West-Hollywood-LA-Pride-Parade-382614931.html

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bee
14 minutes ago, susieice said:

Now it's being said that Mateen referenced the Boston Marathon bombers in this 911 call. I suspect the call will be made public soon.

.

 

I expect that Islamic Jihad  killers like Mateen are onto the fact that people will try to brush off their martyrdom as JUST the acts of a nutter or a repressed homosexual etc --- so they have to make it clear that they died for the cause -- I mean if they are going to go to all that trouble and at the same time sacrifice their own life they don't want their efforts for their cause to be diminished  --- ?? 

 

edit to add --- you can be sure that the establishment will try to deny an act of terror had anything to do with Islam if they possible can --

 

.

 

.

Edited by bee
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susieice

Here's a link to CNN about the 911 call. It also has a banner where you can look at their report about LA.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html

Allegedly the suspect had a camoflage suit, explosives and assault weapons in his car. 

Edited by susieice
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ouija ouija
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

The FBI did say he was on their radar for some time and has made terrorism threats in the past.

I'm amazed the FBI are admitting to that .............. and so soon. Makes you wonder if it's true.

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susieice

Obama is heading to the press room to address the country about Orlando. Can't wait to hear this. He does need to protect the investigation.

 

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Only_

It's insane that a nutjob can just grab an assault riffle and start mass murdering people. The U.S. really need to do something about that.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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Cookie Monster
7 hours ago, Still Waters said:

A gunman has shot dead "about 20 people" in what police have described as "an act of terrorism" on a gay nightclub in Orlando.

The shooter, carrying a bomb and armed with an assault rifle and a handgun, opened fire in the Pulse Orlando bar, leaving around 20 people dead and 42 injured.

http://news.sky.com/story/1710712/orlando-nightclub-terror-attack-leaves-20-dead

ISIS have claimed responsibility.

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freetoroam

Being a US citizen does not give him the right to follow a religion which he knew damn well was anti west and is not acceptable in the western world (by non muslims). This radical religion has to be banned. YES i hear some saying, "but its a free country". but a free country does not give someone the right to believe in a religion which takes away the freedom of others by murdering them in the name of their religion....not matter what religion it is. 

The free country bit does not wash, the US citizen bit does not wash either. If someone wants to be apart of the radical islamists, then they certainly should not be allowed to do it in the west! What they do in the muslim countries is not something we can have a hand in, but who is actually running the western world where they can not ban a barbaric sect which clearly hates the western world?

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Skulduggery

This is ****ed up.

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