Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[freetoroam]

4 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

It's insane that a nutjob can just grab an assault riffle and start mass murdering people.

Forgetting he is a muslim, nutjobs have been around for years, and their religion varies.

[F3SS]

6 hours ago, Leonardo said:

The Nail Bomber here in London wasn't a "radical Islamist". As to the reports of the ideology of the shooter in Orlando, all I hear so far is "believed to be", "suspected of being" - which sounds like the media repeating rumours.

In the current climate, especially in the US it seems, there is a danger that any act such as this will automatically be reported as "an act of Islamic terrorism" even if it isn't. This just perpetuates and exacerbates the fear and prejudice that already exists. Until more is learned of the gunman I will reserve my judgement about his ideological leanings.

 

Just stop Leo. You're wrong as can be. We don't need you to be everybodies mother here and calm us down. The guy pledged allegiance to Isis. Isis just now claimed responsibility. This wasn't a repressed homosexual conservative. He's yet another who's been on a watch list and was yelling Allah Akbar as he killed.

 

2 hours ago, seeder said:

To those in the US.... beware, its on your doorstep too, just as it has been on ours for a while

How do we end this?: religious war?

 

We can start at home by taking serious actions against anyone who ends up on these watch list. If you are making contact with known extremist and puts you on a list you're life needs turned upside down and inside out until all is known and the threat that is that person is no longer a threat.

 

1 hour ago, Lilly said:

I'm just going to apply the rule of law here: It's grossly illegal to go into a public place and slaughter people for any reason.

I'm so sick of all this, we saw it in Paris now it's here in the USA. We need to stop thinking about political correctness and start thinking about our survival. We either get smart or more and more of us will die.

 

Trump just tweeted that we need to get smart. This will assure his victory. Any attack would have but this attack was against a largely liberal constituent and the liberal leaders will act like Leo about this which shouldn't bode well.

 

[Only_]

11 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Forgetting he is a muslim, nutjobs have been around for years, and their religion varies.

Take the semiautomatic rifle away and the victims count is much less. It's happened in San Bernadino, at Sandy Hook Elementary school, in a Aurora theater, I mean there is a serious problem related to mass murder in the US and the type of gun used has a role to play.

[Washington Post] The Gun Used In The Orlando Shooting Is Becoming Mass Shooters' Weapon Of Choice

Edited June 12, 2016 by TruthSeeker_

[questionmark]

9 minutes ago, F3SS said:

rump just tweeted that we need to get smart. This will assure his victory. Any attack would have but this attack was against a largely liberal constituent and the liberal leaders will act like Leo about this which shouldn't bode well.

 

The liberal leaders will do exactly what bodes well with the liberal clientele: put in a bull bill that forbids large magazines.

I doubt this is a big victory for Mr. Trump.

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by questionmark

[Leonardo]

12 minutes ago, F3SS said:

 

Just stop Leo. You're wrong as can be. We don't need you to be everybodies mother here and calm us down. The guy pledged allegiance to Isis. Isis just now claimed responsibility. This wasn't a repressed homosexual conservative. He's yet another who's been on a watch list and was yelling Allah Akbar as he killed.

There have been no reports he "was yelling Allah Akbar as he killed", and the President and other authorities have just said they are still investigating whether the gunman had any direct links to Daesh. It's easy for Daesh to make the claim he did, as the claim boosts their credentials, but it is unknown if their claim is true.

So, no - I'm not "as wrong as can be", I'm just being cautious and sticking to what is currently known, whereas you are keen to leap on the Islamic terrorist bandwagon without justification.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Leonardo

[F3SS]

Because it is. Stop being a knucklehead. Get your head out of the sand.

[Leonardo]

2 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Because it is. Stop being a knucklehead. Get your head out of the sand.

Do you automatically believe everything Daesh says?

Wouldn't that make you a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist?

[F3SS]

4 minutes ago, questionmark said:

The liberal leaders will do exactly what bodes well with the liberal clientele: put in a bull that forbids large magazines.

I doubt this is a big victory for Mr. Trump.

 

 

We shall see. The democrat dance around the big issue is just ridiculous. Hopefully that'll be finally highlighted to their base this time around. I'm not naive though.

[Use your brain]

9 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Take the semiautomatic rifle away and the victims count is much less. It's happened in San Bernadino, at Sandy Hook Elementary school, in a Aurora theater, I mean there is a serious problem related to mass murder in the US and the type of gun used has a role to play.

[Washington Post] The Gun Used In The Orlando Shooting Is Becoming Mass Shooters' Weapon Of Choice

That is some idiotic logic honestly. 

If he wouldn't have had access to the firearms, then he could have just used explosives.

 

Stop blaming the damn guns, and start putting the responsibility on the person killing people.

 

On the flip side, if security would have been armed at this establishment then they might have stopped this before it got so bad.

 

 

Wanting to take peoples guns away for something a terrorist does is beyond stupid. You would let them kill our people and take away our freedoms as well?

[questionmark]

In any case, there are several things to answer here (besides how an unstable person got a gun)

How come he was working as security guard (reported by the Independent) watching federal installations including Fort Pierce. Does nobody check them?

[F3SS]

It's ridiculous. Didn't we just have an African warlord working for the TSA too?

All these guys are always on a list of what are basically potential threats. There have been four major us amid terrie attacks under Obama's watch that I recall. Boston Bombers on a list. Fort hood on a list or at least known to in contact with extremists. San Bernadino, don't recall if on a list but at the least they were a great duping of our security and background checks. This new guy was in a list and was a violent wife beater as reported from his wife to the WaPo. Same with the attacks in Europe. They're always on a friggin list. 

[+susieice]

10 minutes ago, questionmark said:

In any case, there are several things to answer here (besides how an unstable person got a gun)

How come he was working as security guard (reported by the Independent) watching federal installations including Fort Pierce. Does nobody check them?

They can't really be doing thorough checks. This man threatened violence in the past and he was known for domestic violence. He had been investigated for ties to terrorists. He should never have been allowed to purchase weapons. 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/florida-nightclub-shooter-had-made-threats-in-past-reports-claim.html

Islamic State has claimed responsibility.

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/police-multiple-injuries-after-shooting-at-orlando-nightclub/337929937

Edited June 12, 2016 by susieice

[Gunn]

Well what they do is just do criminal background checks through the state police and FBI. If there is nothing there, then they hire them. Simple as that. I know this because I worked for a Security firm once upon a time.
 

[questionmark]

1 minute ago, Purifier said:

Well what they do is just do criminal background checks through the state police and FBI. If there is nothing there, then they hire them. Simple as that. I know this because I worked for a Security firm once upon a time.
 

And then a unstable person gets to watch an airport, or a base, or a federal building.... and on top of it, because of his job, a concealed carry license. Am I the only one noticing that there is something wrong here?

 

[Thanato]

4 minutes ago, susieice said:

Islamic State has claimed responsibility.

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/police-multiple-injuries-after-shooting-at-orlando-nightclub/337929937

Of course they have. Why wouldn't they? Makes them seem more powerful then they actually are. I bet $10 they didn't do much if anything wrt this mass murder.

[F3SS]

The guy pledged allegiance to Al Bagdadi and ISIS. He acted in their name. By your logic cult leaders like Charlie Manson aren't to be held responsible fir the acts of their disciples.

[Duke Wellington]

4 minutes ago, Thanato said:

Of course they have. Why wouldn't they? Makes them seem more powerful then they actually are. I bet $10 they didn't do much if anything wrt this mass murder.

The shooter did a 991 call just before doing it giving an ISIS speech too.

[Thanato]

So he acted in name of DAESH. Still wouldn't call it a Daesh terror attack. Would call it an inspired loan wolf.

[F3SS]

ATF just said he purchased two firearms within the last week. A long gun and a hand gun. Apparently no criminal record. 

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Thanato said:

So he acted in name of DAESH. Still wouldn't call it a Daesh terror attack. Would call it an inspired loan wolf.

No, but it certainly shows where his head was at.

[Gunn]

11 minutes ago, questionmark said:

And then a unstable person gets to watch an airport, or a base, or a federal building.... and on top of it, because of his job, a concealed carry license. Am I the only one noticing that there is something wrong here?

 

I know, but there are no laws yet to prevent companies from hiring mentally unstable people and some of these don't show they have a mental problem until it's too late. So what do you do? Start trying to do some kind of SCI-Fi Minority Report kind of thing?

 

I mean some of them hid their mental problems very well, until it's too late.

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Purifier

[+susieice]

Apparently you can't call someone an islamic terrorist even if he calls you and tells you he is.

[questionmark]

Just now, Purifier said:

I know, but there are no laws yet to prevent companies from hiring mentally unstable people and some of these don't show they have a mental problem until it's too late. So what do you do? Start trying to do some kind of SCI-Fi Minority Report kind of thing?
 

At least fire those known to beat wives and threaten other people with violence (as this character did) would be a start.

 

[questionmark]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

Apparently you can't call someone an islamic terrorist even if he calls you and tells you he is.

The problem there is that "Islamic terrorism" is an open franchise, whatever you do feel free to blame on it.

 

[Leonardo]

2 minutes ago, Thanato said:

So he acted in name of DAESH. Still wouldn't call it a Daesh terror attack. Would call it an inspired loan wolf.

The report I have read, which is fairly current, only says that just before starting his shooting spree, he called 911 and "swore allegiance to Daesh" - it doesn't actually say he "did this in the name of Daesh".

I know that might be splitting hairs to some, but it also may be important in understanding whether Daesh actually had anything to do with his motivation.