Mass-casualty shooting at Orlando nightclub

[+susieice]

3 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

I haven't seen anyone make excuses for him. Just because people want to actually know something, and not jump to conclusions...that doesn't mean they're making excuses. 

What conclusions? The facts about him are confirmed and being reported.

[GlitterRose]

Just now, susieice said:

What conclusions? The facts about him are confirmed and being reported.

People had already been assuming things that weren't reported.

[Lilly]

Just saw (on the news) an interview with an FBI spokesperson. The shooter was interviewed by the FBI back in 2013 for spouting off Radical Extremist Islamic comments to various co-workers. The FBI (at that time) could find nothing more so he was let go.

[F3SS]

Well let's call them roaches from now on. The roaches do less ordering and more inspiring. They call to the largest collective of like minded serial killers on the planet to do their bidding. We must somehow eliminate the nest but we can't just kill them. We need to do something so convincing and so absolute to the nest and all the roaches who follow that it'll be a hundred years before anyone wants to form or join such an outspoken group of bugs. No I don't know the hows but what else can work? Degrade and delegitimize them? Ha! They kill dozens if westerners almost weekly anymore. The progressive approach isn't working. 

[Lilly]

4 minutes ago, bee said:

.

 

I think some here are in denial about the problem that exists and is growing -- and the problem can't be tackled until the reality of it is faced up to --- IMO

 

.

Yep, one has to face a problem in order to deal with it.

[+susieice]

3 minutes ago, bee said:

.

 

I think some here are in denial about the problem that exists and is growing -- and the problem can't be tackled until the reality of it is faced up to --- IMO

 

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Agreed! People are in denial. In the meantime, reality is going to keep kicking butt all over. Who knows for how much longer before people wake up and face the problem.

[bee]

11 minutes ago, Thanato said:

Bee you're missing the point.

We need to stop empowering DAESH. Sure they may have inspired this, but they did not carry it out. Unless evidence comes out they provided physical aid.

 

 

 

time for a Sun Tzu quote --- from the Art of War

 

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/3200649-s-nz-b-ngf

 

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” 
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

just playing down the danger that the '''Islamic State''' poses in the West is not going to help get to grips with it ----what the hell we can do about it is debatable and a more than knotty problem --- but we must at least know the enemy...?

 

not pretend

 

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[Lilly]

This one is a real 'wake up call' for sure. It appears that this young man was probably radicalized via the internet and then went forth to do ISIS's evil bidding.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Lilly
typo

[Leonardo]

11 minutes ago, susieice said:

The people who survived. Are you watching the news? Probably not American, but it is being reported.

You're making excuses that I will not make for this guy.

I have a newsfeed (BBC) that is being updated, but of course it may not have everything all US channels are carrying. There is no information on the newsfeed I have of anything the shooter said in the nightclub. What US news outlets are carrying this info?

[questionmark]

3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Just saw (on the news) an interview with an FBI spokesperson. The shooter was interviewed by the FBI back in 2013 for spouting off Radical Extremist Islamic comments to various co-workers. The FBI (at that time) could find nothing more so he was let go.

Let me guess, and they did not see it necessary to inform his employer that as security guard he posed a possible threat? And naturally, based on that interview, they had no reason to not let him buy a gun a week ago?

Something stinks in that story.

 

[Lilly]

3 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

I have a newsfeed (BBC) that is being updated, but of course it may not have everything all US channels are carrying. There is no information on the newsfeed I have of anything the shooter said in the nightclub. What US news outlets are carrying this info?

I've heard this on both CNN and FOX (from the right and left no less).

Being reported that he gave allegiance to the Islamic State and also called out 'Allah Akbar'.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Lilly
addition

[Jack Skellington]

When you are making threats-- at work, as in the case of the county-employed government worker turned ISIS shooter or in the case of this puke wanna-be-cop security guard-- Take THEIR guns away.  Take THEIR 'rights' away.  Watch THEM!

This isn't an American problem.  This is an ISLAMIC problem.

 

PERIOD

[+susieice]

Just now, Leonardo said:

I have a newsfeed (BBC) that is being updated, but of course it may not have everything all US channels are carrying. There is no information on the newsfeed I have of anything the shooter said in the nightclub. What US news outlets are carrying this info?

Go to FOX or CNNI. See if you can find something there. I found Sky is doing a pretty good job of reporting on this too. Of course, over here, this has been reported on nonstop since I got up this morning. We're posting as many links as we can find, but our news stations don't always put everything said on their websites right away. Some may not go on at all.

[GlitterRose]

Of course, Daesh is a problem. No one is saying that it isn't. But it's clear that there's a tendency of rushing to judgment before facts are known. There's also a media frenzy selling fear 24/7. If we aren't careful, there could be knee-jerk responses that will not be on the right side of history.

From many of the responses I see here, it seems like people are almost ready (if not ready) to call for internment camps for every Muslim. Look at the guy who wanted him deported...and he's a US citizen. You can't forget that whatever freedoms are taken from one group of people can be taken from the rest of us. If you can deport that guy to Afghanistan before he does anything wrong, then why couldn't someone deport me to Ireland because they didn't like my political or religious views? And why couldn't they deport you for the same thing?

Although there is certainly reason to be on guard against terrorism, we have to also keep our sanity. Eroding away our rights so that we can take rights from others isn't going to be the way we win this. It just makes us more like them. 

Edited June 12, 2016 by ChaosRose

[Lilly]

Florida State Gov Rick Scott has also said this (that the shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS).

[Thorvir]

1 hour ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

It's insane that a nutjob can just grab an assault riffle and start mass murdering people. The U.S. really need to do something about that.

Take the semiautomatic rifle away and the victims count is much less. It's happened in San Bernadino, at Sandy Hook Elementary school, in a Aurora theater, I mean there is a serious problem related to mass murder in the US and the type of gun used has a role to play.

The problem isn't our right to bear arms.  The problem is the criminally insane that kills out of hatred in the name of a violent faith.  Don't mix the two up, don't make this about guns,  It has NOTHING to do about guns.
I figured someone would come in and use this tragedy to make a political outburst....

[questionmark]

Just now, ChaosRose said:

Of course, Daesh is a problem. No one is saying that it isn't. But it's clear that there's a tendency of rushing to judgment before facts are known. There's also a media frenzy selling fear 24/7. If we aren't careful, there could be knee-jerk responses that will not be on the right side of history.

From many of the responses I see here, it seems like people are almost ready (if not ready) to call for internment camps for every Muslim. Look at the guy who wanted him deported...and he's a US citizen. You can't forget that whatever freedoms are taken from one group of people can be taken from the rest of us. If you can deport that guy to Afghanistan before he does anything wrong, then why couldn't someone deport me to Ireland because they didn't like my political or religious views? And why couldn't they deport you for the same thing.

Although there is certainly reason to be on guard against terrorism, we have to also keep our sanity. Eroding away our rights so that we can take rights from others isn't going to be the way we win this. It just makes us more like them. 

And additionally, if somebody takes away the rights of Muslims soon a judge will use that precedent to take the same rights away from somebody else. And at that point we might as well put a match to the constitution.

 

[Lilly]

This is a World Wide Problem IMO. It's also a problem for all the innocent Muslims who live in absolute terror from ISIS.

 

[Deleted]

3 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Of course, Daesh is a problem. No one is saying that it isn't. But it's clear that there's a tendency of rushing to judgment before facts are known. There's also a media frenzy selling fear 24/7. If we aren't careful, there could be knee-jerk responses that will not be on the right side of history.

From many of the responses I see here, it seems like people are almost ready (if not ready) to call for internment camps for every Muslim. Look at the guy who wanted him deported...and he's a US citizen. You can't forget that whatever freedoms are taken from one group of people can be taken from the rest of us. If you can deport that guy to Afghanistan before he does anything wrong, then why couldn't someone deport me to Ireland because they didn't like my political or religious views? And why couldn't they deport you for the same thing.

Although there is certainly reason to be on guard against terrorism, we have to also keep our sanity. Eroding away our rights so that we can take rights from others isn't going to be the way we win this. It just makes us more like them. 

well if all muslims get judged by one person, I guess all other should be judged in the same way, why not kill all of humanity. problem solved.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by hellwyr

[Jack Skellington]

1 minute ago, ChaosRose said:

Although there is certainly reason to be on guard against terrorism, we have to also keep our sanity. Eroding away our rights so that we can take rights from others isn't going to be the way we win this. It just makes us more like them. 

Not "our" rights.  THEIR 'rights.' 

You don't have the right to threaten me or my way of life.  You don't have the right to adhere to a religion that advocates death to America while enjoying all the benefits of living in America.  If you think otherwise... move.

 

 

 

[F3SS]

1 minute ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

The problem isn't our right to bear arms.  The problem is the criminally insane that kills out of hatred in the name of a violent faith.  Don't mix the two up, don't make this about guns,  It has NOTHING to do about guns.
I figured someone would come in and use this tragedy to make a political outburst....

Yea he goes by the name barrack Hussein Obama. That was the sum of his address on the matter.

[Thorvir]

26 minutes ago, Thanato said:

We need to stop empowering DAESH

So it's all our fault that ISIS kills in the name of their faith?  /facepalm

[Leonardo]

3 minutes ago, susieice said:

Go to FOX or CNNI. See if you can find something there. I found Sky is doing a pretty good job of reporting on this too. Of course, over here, this has been reported on nonstop since I got up this morning. We're posting as many links as we can find, but our news stations don't always put everything said on their websites right away. Some may not go on at all.

Thanks, I'll check CNN. However, I'm surprised that something like that - if it was a fact reported by eyewitnesses(?) - wouldn't be reported by the Beeb, as they are quite good at getting the latest info from various sources.

The BBC has reported that some eyewitnesses were interviewed by the Orlando Sentinel, but none spoke of anything the gunman said, only of the panic, confusion and terror of the people inside.

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, questionmark said:

And additionally, if somebody takes away the rights of Muslims soon a judge will use that precedent to take the same rights away from somebody else. And at that point we might as well put a match to the constitution.

 

That's paranoia. No one is suggesting you take away the rights of Muslims. But when someone is telling everyone or threatening people about Islamic extremism, that person needs to be dealt with. Hopefully before something like this happens.

[Lilly]

4 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

well if all muslims get judged by one person, I guess all other should be judged in the same way, why not kill all of humanity. problem solved.

Obviously all Muslims aren't ISIS...most Muslims hate/despise/fear ISIS as much as any of us. Everyone needs to please keep this in mind.

This is a Radical Extremist Jihadist problem.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Lilly
typos