'Why not Texit?'

[questionmark]

Quote

How closely is Daniel Miller tracking the news ahead of the referendum about whether Britain should leave the European Union? “Hourly!” he grins. The Sun’s recent editorial calling for the UK’s departure got him quite excited.

Miller, though, is not from London or Liverpool. He hails from Longview, Texas, and we are talking in a cafe in the bleakly industrial Gulf coast town of Port Arthur, some 5,000 miles from Westminster.

Culturally, too, we are a long way from Europe. Heck, we are even a long way from Dallas. But the referendum matters deeply to Miller and like-minded Texans. As the president of the Texas Nationalist Movement, which wants Texas to secede from the United States, he is hoping for a Leave vote that he believes will ripple all the way from Austria to Austin.

 

Read more on The Guardian

 

[supervike]

Texas loves it's independence....But these seceding stories come out once or twice a year.

[questionmark]

7 hours ago, supervike said:

Texas loves it's independence....But these seceding stories come out once or twice a year.

Yeh, seems to be part of the local folklore... but unlike the Brits they know that they won't get very far alone.

 

[Thanato]

27 minutes ago, questionmark said:

Yeh, seems to be part of the local folklore... but unlike the Brits they know that they won't get very far alone.

 

Why wouldnt they? They have a large population, major international industry (oil trade), They have a coast to be able to export internationally, they have refineries. They also have an independent armed forces (though would need major upgrading and training and recruitment), also I would assume that the Air National Guard and the Army National Guard would stay with Texas, might need to buy new equipment for them though. The only thing they are missing is a Navy.

So an independent texas would fair better then say, an Independent Florida. 

[questionmark]

Just now, Thanato said:

Why wouldnt they? They have a large population, major international industry (oil trade), They have a coast to be able to export internationally, they have refineries. They also have an independent armed forces (though would need major upgrading and training and recruitment), also I would assume that the Air National Guard and the Army National Guard would stay with Texas, might need to buy new equipment for them though. The only thing they are missing is a Navy.

So an independent texas would fair better then say, an Independent Florida. 

Yes, but given that they would have hardly any influence on the world stage (because they would be too small) and had to pay for its defense out of its own pocket I doubt it would be better than if they stay in the US.

 

[Duke Wellington]

7 minutes ago, questionmark said:

Yes, but given that they would have hardly any influence on the world stage (because they would be too small) and had to pay for its defense out of its own pocket I doubt it would be better than if they stay in the US.

 

They have no influence on the world stage anyway (its the USA that does). And as they have major oil and other industries they actually pay more than their fair share of the USA's defence budget.

Texas used to be an independent country too.

[Farmer77]

Let em go !  They can become the private prison capital of the world taking that dubious title from the rest of us civilized Americans. 

[questionmark]

8 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

They have no influence on the world stage anyway (its the USA that does). And as they have major oil and other industries they actually pay more than their fair share of the USA's defence budget.

Texas used to be an independent country too.

Quite, quite. For about 10 years in which it had constant problems it could not solve on the Mexican border. And if it leaves it will have problems it cannot solve again. But one should not hold up travelers. Their loss, our gain.

 

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, questionmark said:

Quite, quite. For about 10 years in which it had constant problems it could not solve on the Mexican border. And if it leaves it will have problems it cannot solve again. But one should not hold up travelers. Their loss, our gain.

 

The reason why people in Texas want succession is because the US model of a federation is broken. Power and decision making is too centralised into Washington. They need to decentralise more decision making out then people in each state will be more satisfied at the policies implemented in their area.

Mexico isn't exactly a threat, even to an independent Texas. Its armed forces are 100 years behind those of the USA.

[questionmark]

Just now, RabidMongoose said:

The reason why people in Texas want succession is because the US model of a federation is broken. Power and decision making is too centralised into Washington. They need to decentralise more decision making out then people in each state will be more satisfied at the policies implemented in their area.

Mexico isn't exactly a threat, even to an independent Texas. Its armed forces are 100 years behind those of the USA.

The people of Texas who want secession are about 5% of the Texans. The rest will laugh in your face if you propose it.

 

[Gromdor]

Texas is probably one of the few states that could pull it off, but it will cost them more than that anticipate.  Texas collects more in federal fund than it contributes and there is a significant number of us military bases there that would probably be relocate(or maybe not. We do have bases in foreign countries I guess)

 

It would definitely add to the length of our southern border in terms of border control/ wall building.

[questionmark]

11 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Texas is probably one of the few states that could pull it off, but it will cost them more than that anticipate.  Texas collects more in federal fund than it contributes and there is a significant number of us military bases there that would probably be relocate(or maybe not. We do have bases in foreign countries I guess)

 

It would definitely add to the length of our southern border in terms of border control/ wall building.

We'll make them pay for it!

[Leonardo]

The Republican Party would never let Texas secede, else it can wave goodbye to any sort of parity with the Democrats in the electoral college.

[.ZZ.]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Let em go !  They can become the private prison capital of the world taking that dubious title from the rest of us civilized Americans. 

Tongue in cheek Farmer? Or are you calling all Texans uncivilized?

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, ZZ430 said:

Tongue in cheek Farmer? Or are you calling all Texans uncivilized?

Easy big guy, it was a little tongue in cheek, certainly not a swipe at all Texans. Im just calling private prisons and the political systems which allow push for them to be built and filled as a means of revenue uncivilized. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Farmer77
BIG buy not bug guy

[questionmark]

28 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

The Republican Party would never let Texas secede, else it can wave goodbye to any sort of parity with the Democrats in the electoral college.

That parity is about to crumble anyway, Trump is on the best way to loose both Arizona and Utah for them.

 

[.ZZ.]

We had a long thread last year concerning Texas seceding from the Union. I said everything I wanted then, including providing links to exports and home security capabilities, etc.  I'm not going to bore us with repeating all of that.

Anyway, I have a vested, selfish interest in not wanting to secede. I don't want to lose my Social Security benefits of which I paid all of my working life, and as was stated above, the majority of Texans are against it too.

Edited June 20, 2016 by ZZ430

[Farmer77]

 

4 minutes ago, ZZ430 said:

We had a long thread last year concerning Texas seceding from the Union. I said everything I wanted then, including providing links to exports and home security capabilities, etc.  I'm not going to bore us with repeating all of that.

Anyway, I have a vested, selfish interest in not wanting to secede. I don't want to lose my Social Security benefits of which I paid all of my working life, and as was stated above, the majority of Texans are against it too.

You guys just need some Russians! !!! growing up in AK it seemed like every couple of years someone would start a secessionist movement but the movements only held any real support up until a Russian Bear would enter our airspace and everyone kinda collectively went "oh yeah THATS why we put up with the BS from Washington" 

[Myles]

7 hours ago, Thanato said:

Why wouldnt they? They have a large population, major international industry (oil trade), They have a coast to be able to export internationally, they have refineries. They also have an independent armed forces (though would need major upgrading and training and recruitment), also I would assume that the Air National Guard and the Army National Guard would stay with Texas, might need to buy new equipment for them though. The only thing they are missing is a Navy.

So an independent texas would fair better then say, an Independent Florida. 

Don't they run off their own power grid as well. 

Not saying it is going to happen.   Not saying it would be good, but it could be done easier than almost any other state.

I have to say that it would be cool to draft your own "constitution" today. 

[rashore]

On 6/20/2016 at 2:27 PM, Myles said:

Don't they run off their own power grid as well. 

Not saying it is going to happen.   Not saying it would be good, but it could be done easier than almost any other state.

I have to say that it would be cool to draft your own "constitution" today. 

Texas does have it's own power grid that can run independently of other interconncetions. However, Texas does have connections with other U.S. interconnections, and some connections with Mexico too. These connections can supply power both ways. There are also a couple of power plants outside Texas that can switch grids and provide power to Texas. These connections came in handy in 2011 when Texas had to draw a lot of power from those connections. Texas does have few enough connections with other interconnections that they don't have federal oversight, something Texas is fierce about. However, in the last few years, there have been more connections set up and/or proposed.

There is also the problem that the Texas grid does not cover all of Texas. It covers about three quarters, leaving out the Panhandle, El Paso, and that easternmost triangle of the state. So if Texas split off, they would likely have to cede those parts of the state, or bust butt and extend out their grid to fully cover the state before splitting off.

Edited June 21, 2016 by rashore

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, rashore said:

Texas does have it's own power grid that can run independently of other interconncetions. However, Texas does have connections with other U.S. interconnections, and some connections with Mexico too. These connections can supply power both ways. There are also a couple of power plants outside Texas that can switch grids and provide power to Texas. These connections came in handy in 2011 when Texas had to draw a lot of power from those connections. Texas does have few enough connections with other interconnections that they don't have federal oversight, something Texas is fierce about. However, in the last few years, there have been more connections set up and/or proposed.

There is also the problem that the Texas grid does not cover all of Texas. It covers about three quarters, leaving out the Panhandle, El Paso, and that easternmost triangle of the state. So if Texas split off, they would likely have to cede those parts of the state, or bust butt and extend out their grid to fully cover the state before splitting off.

I'm sure the companies providing power to the 1/4 of Texas would be willing to deal in order to keep them as a customer. 

 

[rashore]

On 6/20/2016 at 7:20 AM, Thanato said:

Why wouldnt they?

They have a large population,

True.

major international industry (oil trade),

Yes and no. While they do have a lot of oil industry themselves, they also are a big channeler and refiner of pipelines from a lot of the rest of North America. By comparison to their power grid, which could feasably be disconnected from the rest of the interconnections... Texas is just too heavily entangled with the pipelines to be able to disengage and have their own trading industry in the world market. The U.S. isn't going to give up Texas because of this too. And I doubt Texas has the clout to negotiate international trade with the U.S. or the rest of the world standing on their own. And right now, Texas imports more oil than exports. (see sources below for import/export information).

They have a coast to be able to export internationally, they have refineries.

Texas does have refineries. And yes, it's currently able to export internationally. However, the U.S. controls much of the rest of the coastline of the Gulf of Mexico, with Mexico controlling most of the rest of it. And the newest re-opening of relations with Cuba could potentially help secure the gulf in general- and then could effectively pen in Texas. And unlike Texas, the U.S. already has a large water faring force with the Navy and the Coast Guard. And Mexico has it's own water military.

They also have an independent armed forces (though would need major upgrading and training and recruitment),

True.

also I would assume that the Air National Guard and the Army National Guard would stay with Texas,

Why make that assumption? It could very well be that both would stay with the U.S., or one would go each way.. or perhaps members within the state would stay there, but members from other states would refrain from doing so.

might need to buy new equipment for them though.

And where would they get that kind of money from? Who would they buy it from? Once disconnected from the U.S., they would have to rely on their own independent money system in a lot of ways too- and get other nations to recognize their currency.

The only thing they are missing is a Navy.

Yes, they are lacking a water force. And the U.S. has a strong one. And Mexico has it's own presence in the Gulf of Mexico. Mexico controls that final bit of land that hems in Texas with the Yucatan Peninsula. On the water front, Texas would be contending with the U.S. and Mexico. 

So an independent texas would fair better then say, an Independent Florida. 

Totally agreed.

 

Providing sources and other opinions I have outside the quote. Note my responses are in italics in the above.

Texas imports link: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/state/data/imports/tx.html

Texas exports link: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/state/data/tx.html

Something to note with the above statistics it that Texas is heavily into production, both imports and exports. But there is a lack of another crucial commodity list there- food. Texas has seen a 23% drop in food exports, but has seen a 101% rise in food imports. Texas would have to be able to clout in with trade agreements with other nations in order to be able to feed themselves. Agriculture in that area would have to shift.

Source, 2014 data release, Ag-TX: http://www.citizen.org/documents/Ag-TX.pdf

sometimes the pdf viewer does not work for some folks, hopefully this link will if the above does not: www.citizen.org/documents/Ag-TX.pdf

If that one fails too.. it's Public Citizen, U.S. Imports U.S. exports

Also.. water usage and rights. That's a whole nother set of problems that Texas would have to fight with the U.S. and Mexico about. Going from a state to it's own nation, Texas might be at a disadvantage. I don't have source links for that right now, haven't researched that aspect too much yet.

 

And in general. Embargo. The U.S. for sure would do that to Texas if they tried to exit, and become their own nation. How quick would Texas dry up when they can't water export anymore, and potentially denied land and air transport as well? Aside from that, think Mexico would just sit out on all of this? After all, this sort of thing has an effect on their country too.

Mexico- we all like to debate about U.S. and Texas.. But Mexico is indeed a viable player in all of this. International water rights to start. With a military presence to back it up. Texas would have to fight like hell to gain accepted international water rights. And with a break with the U.S., the majority of the Rio Grande would go from U.S. border to the Texas border.And that would be it's own mess of problems.

Quote

 

[Paranormal Panther]

On June 20, 2016 at 7:22 AM, questionmark said:

Yes, but given that they would have hardly any influence on the world stage (because they would be too small) and had to pay for its defense out of its own pocket I doubt it would be better than if they stay in the US.

 

Texas has the population of Saudi Arabia. It has the GDP of Canada.

[questionmark]

13 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Texas has the population of Saudi Arabia. It has the GDP of Canada.

Quite, quite, but as shown by Saudi Arabia, that does not help much.

 

[Paranormal Panther]

11 hours ago, questionmark said:

Quite, quite, but as shown by Saudi Arabia, that does not help much.

 

I trust Baptists more than fanatical "Muslims" who fund terrorism. Despite the hysterical rantings of unhinged Marxists, I also doubt that gay people would be executed in the Lone Star state, and I also doubt that Texas women would be treated like Black people in 1950s Mississippi.