The Tory and Labour leaderships

[questionmark]

well, here we have something else that is funny:

Quote

 

New EU Clash Looms as Gove, May in No Rush to Trigger Brexit

The two front-runners to succeed David Cameron as prime minister set the U.K. on a collision course with European Union leaders after both said they were in no hurry to trigger the mechanism that would start Britain’s withdrawal from the bloc.

Michael Gove said the legal notification won’t be made this year if he becomes prime minister, echoing comments made by Theresa May. The foot-dragging sets up a clash with the 27 remaining heads of government, who said this week that the U.K. needs to move “as quickly as possible” to start the two-year Brexit process.

“We control the timing of when we trigger Article 50, and we will do it when we’re good and ready,” Gove, the justice secretary in Cameron’s government, told reporters in London on Friday as he set out his bid for the leadership of the ruling Conservative Party. He said his government would conduct “extensive preliminary talks” before invoking the article, adding: “We need to make sure we have the best possible deal.”

Read more on Bloomberg

You thought you were going somewhere or something?

 

[Mr.United_Nations]

I was about to go home on Monday evening from London, but there was a Labour rally in Parliment square, so i stayed and see what it was like.

It was very bizzare, i knew it would be something imagined but nothing like that. I some pictures of a few posters and some of them are ...weird like promoting Maxrism and ultra left wing Soclism. But what was disturbing it felt like Nazi rally but communist kind. a few Labour PM's came on and spoke but when they said that the majoirty of labour MP's supported Corybn..well that was like because that day most of them called for him to go or the next day...

[Space Commander Travis]

But most of those who want him to go want him to go because he's isn't Blairite enough. Is that what you'd prefer, since you find the prospect of socialism disturbing? 

[bee]

.

enter stage left ----- roll on the drums

Andrea Leadsom 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/04/boris-johnson-backs-andrea-leadsom-for-prime-minister/

 

It came after a poll of Conservative activists by the ConservativeHome website found that Mrs Leadsom has pulled ahead of Mrs May.

The poll found that she had the support of 38 per cent of party members, compared to Mrs May’s 37 per cent.

 

Mrs Leadsom launched her “fresh leadership” bid on Monday with a pledge to heal the divisions in Britain exposed by the EU referendum. She vowed to end the free movement of EU migrants and directly criticised Mrs May for failing to guarantee that those already living in Britain can stay.

 

 

[bee]

.

I think she could do it --- these are turbulent times and to be PM right now is a bit of a poisoned chalice but Andrea LEADsom
is all bright and breezy and totally committed to Brexit -

Which ever way it goes looks like we're going to have our second female PM -- then if Angela Eagle swoops into becoming
Labour Party leader.... that would be interesting -

.

 

[bee]

On 7/1/2016 at 7:30 AM, Emma_Acid said:

Oy, I am so fed up with this entire shambles. I've lost faith in everyone - the press, the politicians (yes I had faith in them) and the public. I've deleted my twitter, my facebook, and I'm refusing to look at any newspapers. I'm so embarrassed. NO ONE is coming out of this well.

Oh yeah, party leadership. I'd like Tom Watson for Labour and Ruth Davidson for the Tories please (not that she's even been asked). I hate Boris, Gove and May. They're totally clueless and out of touch. Corbyn is a family friend but is far too principled, and will never get in to power being that left wing.

.

Your family friend Corbyn  ..(I presume you mean that literally?)
is a stubborn so-and-so but does seem principled - and won't be pushed around - 

although he came a bit unstuck with the referendum and I had the feeling that he felt obliged to support remain but
his heart wasn't in it ---  and he was more or less just reflecting  the direction most Labour MPs were leaning -- 
and in a half hearted way - 

give us the inside gossip ---did he actually vote Leave as has been suggested...? 

And---- it must be weird living on Planet London at the moment --- all those middle class people under the age of 30? 40? ---
stomping around in a tantrum shouting 'Shame on you' ---- like their ticket to paradise had just been  ripped up and they
could never set foot in Europe ever again --- 

.

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by bee

[bee]

.

Bright and breezy --- inside steely......

I am actually quite impressed that she should say that 'it brings out every socialist bone in my body' 

A conservative leader/PM with self proclaimed socialist leanings..?...whatever next...

Many people are getting all panicky that we are politically rudderless etc at the moment but I think that this
almighty political shake up we are going through is going to be a good thing in the long run --

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

had she been reading Jermy Corbyn's script by mistake?  

[Space Commander Travis]

4 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

had she been reading Jermy Corbyn's script by mistake?  

Don't be silly, a Labour Leader would never be allowed to mention Socialism  

[Setton]

Gove gone = happy Setton today

But seriously, what is happening? Labour wants to get rid of the most left wing leader they've had in ages and the Tories might well end up with a leader who talks about socialism...

[LV-426]

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

Gove gone = happy Setton today

But seriously, what is happening? Labour wants to get rid of the most left wing leader they've had in ages and the Tories might well end up with a leader who talks about socialism...

Maybe they are finally starting to listen to the populace...

*sounds of crashing and things clattering to the floor*

Sorry... I just fell off my chair laughing at my own supposition!

[Space Commander Travis]

20 minutes ago, Setton said:

Gove gone = happy Setton today

But seriously, what is happening? Labour wants to get rid of the most left wing leader they've had in ages and the Tories might well end up with a leader who talks about socialism...

And the EstEstablishment has stated in so many words (well, about six thousand pages) that T. Blair is a liar, a fraud and a criminal. 

[Setton]

9 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

And the EstEstablishment has stated in so many words (well, about six thousand pages) that T. Blair is a liar, a fraud and a criminal. 

But that bit wasn't a surprise. Well, maybe that they admitted it but not news to most. As long as we seem to be through the looking glass, might as well wish for him to go on trial. I'll hitch a ride down to watch on my flying pig.

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, I bet if Cameron (who voted for Blair's war, remember) had had his way, it would have been a complete whitewash, if not exonerate Bliar altogether. I think it is significant that the Establishment haven't got their way. 

[Leonardo]

Given how many "Leaders" have jumped ship since the result (sorry Boris, I know you were pushed) I suspect none of them (including Farage) actually believed "Leave" was a possible result, and that "Remain" was a done deal. This suggests none of them were actually campaigning for "Britain", but were rather campaigning for themselves and didn't have any clue or plan as to what they should do if "Leave" actually happened.

So, being the cowards they are, they leave the mess they made to the next-in-charge.

[stevewinn]

Leadership Race Mrs May or Mrs Leadsom. - I'm split, I'd have loved "the Mogg" to have stood. It would have been like the Golden Elizabethan era come again. so fitting after Brexit. sending off the modern day Drakes and Hawkins's out into the "new Brexit" world.

[Space Commander Travis]

Sorry, are we talking about Michael Gove?  

[LV-426]

12 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Given how many "Leaders" have jumped ship since the result (sorry Boris, I know you were pushed) I suspect none of them (including Farage) actually believed "Leave" was a possible result, and that "Remain" was a done deal. This suggests none of them were actually campaigning for "Britain", but were rather campaigning for themselves and didn't have any clue or plan as to what they should do if "Leave" actually happened.

So, being the cowards they are, they leave the mess they made to the next-in-charge.

Who are you actually talking about here?

Cameron was never going to survive a Brexit vote, whether he wanted to or not.

Corbyn will still insist that he's in charge as he gets firmly removed by a couple of gentlemen in white coats.

Farage stepped down for personal reasons, or if you look at the big picture perhaps he realized that UKIP are in a strong position and that a less controversial figure might be able to capitalize in the current climate. Either way, he's not currently in a position to effect changes at the top.

They, along with others, can be accused of many things. I wouldn't say "cowardice" is one of them though.

[LV-426]

24 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Leadership Race Mrs May or Mrs Leadsom. - I'm split, I'd have loved "the Mogg" to have stood. It would have been like the Golden Elizabethan era come again. so fitting after Brexit. sending off the modern day Drakes and Hawkins's out into the "new Brexit" world.

Split here too.

Leadsom on the one hand for obvious reasons, but I have to say that May has perhaps presented herself with the best air of authority as a potential Prime Minister. As long as she keeps her promises, she might just be able to heal a little of the divide splitting Britain right now.

What are these foolish words that I'm typing? They're politicians... they'll find a way to narf it up somehow!

[Space Commander Travis]

20 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Who are you actually talking about here?

Cameron was never going to survive a Brexit vote, whether he wanted to or not.

Corbyn will still insist that he's in charge as he gets firmly removed by a couple of gentlemen in white coats.

Farage stepped down for personal reasons, or if you look at the big picture perhaps he realized that UKIP are in a strong position and that a less controversial figure might be able to capitalize in the current climate. Either way, he's not currently in a position to effect changes at the top.

They, along with others, can be accused of many things. I wouldn't say "cowardice" is one of them though.

Who knows what he's talking about. He seems to be saying that Boris was so unscrupulous and ruthless in his desire to be Party leader (and therefore PM) that he, er, jumped ship the moment the prize was within his grasp.

Makes sense to me.  

 

 

[bee]

53 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Given how many "Leaders" have jumped ship since the result (sorry Boris, I know you were pushed) I suspect none of them (including Farage) actually believed "Leave" was a possible result, and that "Remain" was a done deal. This suggests none of them were actually campaigning for "Britain", but were rather campaigning for themselves and didn't have any clue or plan as to what they should do if "Leave" actually happened.

So, being the cowards they are, they leave the mess they made to the next-in-charge.

.

I think you're just having a pop at the Leave Camp because you wanted to Remain ----

Nige isn't a member of parliament - Boris was going to have a go at being PM but then mysteriously folded when Gove said a couple of things (what WAS all that about and was there more to it --- like blackmail or something  ) - Gove wanted to be top dog but after upsetting Boris he got the cold shoulder - Andrea Leadsom has a real fighting chance of being the next PM and can't wait to get stuck in to Juncker -

Cameron called a referendum - the outcome had two possibilities --- it's a pity his government wasn't a bit more prepared instead of just presuming Project Fear was going to work ---

. 

 

[Leonardo]

37 minutes ago, bee said:

.

I think you're just having a pop at the Leave Camp because you wanted to Remain ----

Nige isn't a member of parliament - Boris was going to have a go at being PM but then mysteriously folded when Gove said a couple of things (what WAS all that about and was there more to it --- like blackmail or something  ) - Gove wanted to be top dog but after upsetting Boris he got the cold shoulder - Andrea Leadsom has a real fighting chance of being the next PM and can't wait to get stuck in to Juncker -

Cameron called a referendum - the outcome had two possibilities --- it's a pity his government wasn't a bit more prepared instead of just presuming Project Fear was going to work ---

. 

 

Nice try to make my post out to be some kind of partisan bs, bee.

Cameron could have fought on and let his Party vote him out - he chose to jump ship. Farage said "I've done all I think I can" without a care for "what happens next" - then he chose to jump ship. Boris could have fought Gove, but tamely wimped out.

The only "Leader" who has shown any sort of fight has been Corbyn, the rest quit almost as soon as the result came in.

[Setton]

55 minutes ago, bee said:

then mysteriously folded when Gove said a couple of things (what WAS all that about and was there more to it --- like blackmail or something  )

Cameron called a referendum - the outcome had two possibilities --- it's a pity his government wasn't a bit more prepared instead of just presuming Project Fear was going to work ---

I've said for a while that Gove must have some good dirt on someone. No other reason someone that useless would be put in charge of education, make a complete **** of it and get moved on to Justice Secretary. The only appointment that makes sense is Chief Whip. He's clearly good at forcing people to do things they know they shouldn't.

And, yes, the government should have had a contingency plan. But don't you think the Leave campaign, given that this was the outcome they supposedly wanted and knew would be so successful, should also have had a vague idea of where to go next?

1 hour ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

Who knows what he's talking about. He seems to be saying that Boris was so unscrupulous and ruthless in his desire to be Party leader (and therefore PM) that he, er, jumped ship the moment the prize was within his grasp.

Makes sense to me.  

 

 

Personally, I don't believe for a second that Boris actually wanted us out. It's too much of a change from his previous opinions on it. I think he either intended to lose narrowly and use the resulting popularity to take over the leadership or to win, let Cameron take the fall, then take over when Cameron is hounded out of office.

I very much doubt any prominent figures from Leave or Remain want the job right now. Whether they went ahead with article 50 or not, about half the electorate will despise them forever. They would either be called undemocratic or short-sighted and the PM who possibly broke up the UK.

Likewise, the party itself will not want these people as leader. Whatever they do, it will lose them the next election. They start with article 50 and 48% of the electorate will unite behind the largest party that says they'll have a second referendum or overturn the decision. Or they don't start the leaving process and 52% unite behind (most likely) UKIP. Either way, they lose (assuming everyone voting in the referendum believes passionately in it and no-one has changed their mind )

The less prominent figures like May and Leadsom can make compromises without seeming to be contradicting everything they stood for and can appeal to both sides of the electorate.

On a lighter note, this is pretty much how I imagine Boris' Friday morning went on the 24th  (obligatory adult language warning)

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Setton

[LV-426]

20 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Nice try to make my post out to be some kind of partisan bs, bee.

Cameron could have fought on and let his Party vote him out - he chose to jump ship. Farage said "I've done all I think I can" without a care for "what happens next" - then he chose to jump ship. Boris could have fought Gove, but tamely wimped out.

The only "Leader" who has shown any sort of fight has been Corbyn, the rest quit almost as soon as the result came in.

Just staying with these two for the moment...

Do you think Cameron, who relentlessly campaigned for remain, and spearheaded "project fear" could seriously have put himself forward as the man to lead the country into an exit? Don't you maybe think he'd be doing massive damage to his party by taking "remain" a bit too literally? Stepping down is the most honorable thing he's done throughout the entire referendum.

Corbyn? Sure, he showing some fight. It isn't exactly productive though is it? Standing firm against a no-confidence vote of 172-40 is making him look more like Comical Ali during the Iraq war, refusing to face the facts that are evident to anyone with a pair of eyes... doing massive damage to his party in the process.

I'm trying not to let any personal bias into play here. These things seem absolutely self-evident, and saying otherwise is pretty much proving bee's point.

[Setton]

2 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Corbyn? Sure, he showing some fight. It isn't exactly productive though is it? Standing firm against a no-confidence vote of 172-40 is making him look more like Comical Ali during the Iraq war, refusing to face the facts that are evident to anyone with a pair of eyes... doing massive damage to his party in the process.

Corbyn was elected as leader by members. If his MPs don't like that, they no longer represent their own party. Rather than try to oust their democratically elected leader, they should either unite behind him or leave the party. But leaving the party means losing that little rose on the ballot paper which is all that gets most of them their job. I have a feeling Corbyn would be able to find alternative candidates to stand in by-elections. And, given the 40,000 new member just joined to support Corbyn, could likely win those elections.

Quite simply, he's made it clear he won't bow to pressure from a handful of MPs who don't respect the choice of people they represent. They now have the choice to work with him or lose their jobs.