The Tory and Labour leaderships

[LV-426]

172-40 doesn't equate to "a handful" by any means - it's a large majority. All he's doing at the minute is ripping his party apart.

If he firmly believes that he's the right man for the job, his leadership should be put to the Labour membership again immediately to solidify his position, and then he actually has a platform to silence dissenters.

Currently, he looks weak through lack of support, and other MPs look weak as they cannot oust him. Not a great position for a party to be in should an early general election be called (although I doubt it will.)

[Setton]

It's a tiny handful in comparison to the support he has among members. Again, 40,000 new members specifically saying they joined to support him. That's without all the existing members who support him and the other 60,000 new members who didn't give a reason for joining. That's a hell of a lot more than 172.

[hetrodoxly]

3 hours ago, Leonardo said:

Given how many "Leaders" have jumped ship since the result (sorry Boris, I know you were pushed) I suspect none of them (including Farage) actually believed "Leave" was a possible result, and that "Remain" was a done deal. This suggests none of them were actually campaigning for "Britain", but were rather campaigning for themselves and didn't have any clue or plan as to what they should do if "Leave" actually happened.

So, being the cowards they are, they leave the mess they made to the next-in-charge.

A bit of a bizarre post, Boris hasn't resigned, Farage isn't in government? his job was finished with UKIP he'd achieved his objective he'll continue as an MEP to keep an eye on the remainers negotiating Brexit, the only coward here to jump ship was a remainer.

[LV-426]

33 minutes ago, Setton said:

It's a tiny handful in comparison to the support he has among members. Again, 40,000 new members specifically saying they joined to support him. That's without all the existing members who support him and the other 60,000 new members who didn't give a reason for joining. That's a hell of a lot more than 172.

The 172 are his peers, the people he has to work with on a daily basis to make the Labour party a viable opposition to the Conservatives. Hardly on a par with Joe Public, who can have a say for a few quid a month.

I guess it's a futile discussion though. It's one that will only become apparent with time as to where it leaves Labour in the grand scheme of things. They lost my vote a long time ago.

[Space Commander Travis]

9 hours ago, Setton said:

Whether they went ahead with article 50 or not, about half the electorate will despise them forever. They would either be called undemocratic or short-sighted and the PM who possibly broke up the UK.

 

Well, the great majority of that 50% is either in Scotland (who as we know want to go their own way, and are quite welcome to) and London (which for a long time has been quite separate from the rest of England, and quite unrepresentative). 

[Space Commander Travis]

8 hours ago, LV-426 said:

 

Corbyn? Sure, he showing some fight. It isn't exactly productive though is it? Standing firm against a no-confidence vote of 172-40 is making him look more like Comical Ali during the Iraq war, refusing to face the facts that are evident to anyone with a pair of eyes... doing massive damage to his party in the process.

I'm trying not to let any personal bias into play here. These things seem absolutely self-evident, and saying otherwise is pretty much proving bee's point.

I realise that Corbyn wouldn't be popular around here, but I think he's about the only one who's shown any dignity, and the "rebels" who want to go back to the days of Blair and are fixated only with London are the ones who are committing suicide. The kind of embarrassing, pathetic little turds who were so lacking in dignity as to heckle Corbyn during the Chilcot report debate. They're the ones that are out of touch, both with the mood within their own party and with the nation (outside London) as a whole. 

[Space Commander Travis]

* In other news, I notice that the daily Mirror, an insignificant paper that's got it consistently wrong ever since it cam down on the pro-EU side, is paying Angela Leadsom quite a compliment today. They don't, however, seem to see that it is a compliment. "Maggie Mk II: Tory Extremist In Line for Top Job", it's calling her. 

[Space Commander Travis]

* This just in!* Angela Leavesden or whatever her name was has announced that she's quitting the Tory Leadership Race. Not much of a race then is it. What would the ballot paper look like?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

" Who would you like to see as the next leader of the gang of incompetents trading under the name 'Tory Party', and hence Pry Minister of the United Kingdom, for as long as the latter remains, which probably won't be for long?

* Teresa May     [X] 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Edited July 11, 2016 by Otto von Pickelhaube

[LV-426]

Blimey!

Seems Theresa's already packing her bags ready for the move to Number 10...

Theresa May to succeed Cameron as UK PM on Wednesday

[Space Commander Travis]

let's all have a moment's sympathy for smug chubby man.

Ok, that's enough. 

[TopToffee]

Please,please,please Theresa,sack George.Not holding my breath on that one.

 

[Finity]

I had a bad feeling about Gove or Boris getting in. But somehow things just feel right now.

"Stepping down" does seem to be the new fad though

Edited July 11, 2016 by Finity

[bee]

.

Although I liked Andrea Leadsom, perhaps she wasn't up to the task of PM - whoever takes up the poisoned chalice 

challenge needs a very thick skin  

Ian Duncan Smith was very grumpy about her standing down - 

 

[bee]

.

meanwhile - now Angela Eagle is swooping in to challenge Jeremy Corbyn --

but it might not be plain sailing - 

and apparently she's facing a vote of no confidence from her local branch - and there's the question of whether Corbyn will
automatically go on the ballot paper for a leadership vote --- 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/11/angela-eagle-is-facing-a-vote-of-no-confidence-from-her-own-constituency-5999886/

 

[stevewinn]

3 minutes ago, bee said:

.

meanwhile - now Angela Eagle is swooping in to challenge Jeremy Corbyn --

but it might not be plain sailing - 

and apparently she's facing a vote of no confidence from her local branch - and there's the question of whether Corbyn will
automatically go on the ballot paper for a leadership vote --- 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/11/angela-eagle-is-facing-a-vote-of-no-confidence-from-her-own-constituency-5999886/

 

 

Her sister Maria Eagle is a MP in Liverpool and shes rubbish, i've seen her in action and as for Angela Eagle shes in the same, Her office over the other side of the River Mersey as been attacked, they had to unplug the telephones because of the abuse they were receiving and last night someone threw a house brick through the front window. - and that's from party members who are the progressive left.

[bee]

4 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

 

Her sister Maria Eagle is a MP in Liverpool and shes rubbish, i've seen her in action and as for Angela Eagle shes in the same, Her office over the other side of the River Mersey as been attacked, they had to unplug the telephones because of the abuse they were receiving and last night someone threw a house brick through the front window. - and that's from party members who are the progressive left.

.

Yikes - what a to-do --- 

.

 

[Frank Merton]

Looks to me Labor has pretty much destroyed itself.  If a snap election were called now they would vanish from Parliament, but the Liberals might win so such an election may not happen.  Given that I've been so surprised by everything recently, including Brexit and all the fall-out, though, I'm probably wrong here too.

[bee]

20 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Blimey!

Seems Theresa's already packing her bags ready for the move to Number 10...

Theresa May to succeed Cameron as UK PM on Wednesday

.

Time has gone a bit weird since the referendum ---

for weeks all we had was Project Fear - same ish thing over and over -
then suddenly change after change at breakneck speed -

.

[questionmark]

15 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Looks to me Labor has pretty much destroyed itself.  If a snap election were called now they would vanish from Parliament, but the Liberals might win so such an election may not happen.  Given that I've been so surprised by everything recently, including Brexit and all the fall-out, though, I'm probably wrong here too.

That is the questionable aspect of the whole thingy: there are many people who would not vote for anything that stands for Brexit, even if there is nothing to take it back now, so the options are getting smaller and may get more lib-dems in by default. What is certain is that the Scottish nationalists and the Northern Irish Republicans would strongly gain from this. Everything else is hovering.

Now, given that Corbyn is on his seat by the vote of a majority of Labour members (and most likely if put to the membership will stay there) the bigger risk for Labour is getting rid of him before a snap election.

 

[Leonardo]

On 07/07/2016 at 11:13 PM, LV-426 said:

172-40 doesn't equate to "a handful" by any means - it's a large majority. All he's doing at the minute is ripping his party apart.

If he firmly believes that he's the right man for the job, his leadership should be put to the Labour membership again immediately to solidify his position, and then he actually has a platform to silence dissenters.

Currently, he looks weak through lack of support, and other MPs look weak as they cannot oust him. Not a great position for a party to be in should an early general election be called (although I doubt it will.)

Corbyn is facing a fight with his own party, and that is largely down to the legacy of Blair who took the Labour Party and turned it into the "Conservatives-lite" Party. Many of the current members of the Party are quite chuffed with their new (since Blair) closer relationship with big business, which more easily enables them to obtain lucrative positions on various boards. While prior to Blair Labour had not been exempt of eschewing a dedication to a more socialist platform and placing the interest of "the workers" over those of "the corporations", that tendency has multiplied since Blair's "modernisation" of Labour.

Corbyn is attempting to take Labour back to what it used to stand for, and differentiate it from the Conservative Party. Naturally, given the self-interest of those who are now benefitting from Labour's "business first" policy, there is considerable resistance to this. However, I actually admire Corbyn for putting first his dedication to his socialist principles and for trying to give the voters of the UK a "real" alternative to the policies held dear by the Conservatives.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Leonardo

[Frank Merton]

4 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Corbyn is facing a fight with his own party, and that is largely down to the legacy of Blair who took the Labour Party and turned it into the "Conservatives-lite" Party. Many of the current members of the Party are quite chuffed with their new (since Blair) closer relationship with big business, which more easily enables them to obtain lucrative positions on various boards. While prior to Blair Labour had not been exempt of eschewing a dedication to a more socialist platform and placing the interest of "the workers" over those of "the corporations", that tendency has multiplied since Blair's "modernisation" of Labour.

Corbyn is attempting to take Labour back to what it used to stand for, and differentiate it from the Conservative Party. Naturally, given the self-interest of those who are now benefitting from Labour's "business first" policy, there is considerable resistance to this. However, I actually admire Corbyn for putting first his dedication to his socialist principles and for trying to give the voters of the UK a "real" alternative to the policies held dear by the Conservatives.

I think you mis-describe Corbyn by a considerable margin.  He is something of a British Lenin, not from the real Labor tradition at all. Of course the way you describe the political system I figure you probably approve, the mind set you seem to have.

[Leonardo]

Just now, Frank Merton said:

I think you mis-describe Corbyn by a considerable margin.  He is something of a British Lenin, not from the real Labor tradition at all. Of course the way you describe the political system I figure you probably approve, the mind set you seem to have.

Why do you assume I am a hard-leftist?

I consider myself quite centrist, in that I favour a mix of left and right policy, and nothing extreme from either.

And I do not see Corbyn as a "Lenin" - because I do not see any indication he wants to usher in a communism. He is more socialist than perhaps I am comfortable with, but I can't deny that adding a bit more socialist policy into our current system may not necessarily be a bad thing.

[bee]

.

Corbyn has a lot of support from the rank and file of the Labour Party -

He is not going to be pushed around if he can help it and wants to stand by the membership who voted him in -

(even though some of the votes came from outside the Labour Party who joined in the vote for a few quid just to try and scupper
and divide Labour -  )

Anyway --- I did like his answer to Sky news the other day when he was up north and asked if he was feeling the pressure
with the challenge to his leadership - and he (in so many words) said ...

'pressure what pressure? Real pressure is not being able to afford to feed your kids'

 

.

Edited July 12, 2016 by bee

[Frank Merton]

12 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Why do you assume I am a hard-leftist?

I consider myself quite centrist, in that I favour a mix of left and right policy, and nothing extreme from either.

And I do not see Corbyn as a "Lenin" - because I do not see any indication he wants to usher in a communism. He is more socialist than perhaps I am comfortable with, but I can't deny that adding a bit more socialist policy into our current system may not necessarily be a bad thing.

No he is not a Communist, but then again neither was Lenin, who was also a socialist.  Whatever servers the purpose of getting power.

The reason I accuse you of leftism is that is where the business about politicians selling out is heard most often.  You should qualify yourself since if you are going to spout leftist slogans people will naturally draw that conclusion.

 

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, bee said:

.

meanwhile - now Angela Eagle is swooping in to challenge Jeremy Corbyn --

 

 

 

if only she was challenging for the SNP leadership, then we could have the Eagle swooping on the Sturgeon, perhaps narrated by David Attenborough.