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An Urban Leg3nd

The God of the Bible May Be Satan

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GoldenWolf
11 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Mystic Crusader, if you think the bible is full of bullship, why dwell on it ? My local newspaper is like that, so i don't buy or read it !

It destroys families, it destroys nations, overall, like the God of it, all it really does is wreak suffering, death and destruction.  It breed's people like the Nazi's, the K.K.K., Westboro, many cult's from hell.

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Habitat
8 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

It destroys families, it destroys nations, overall, like the God of it, all it really does is wreak suffering, death and destruction.  It breed's people like the Nazi's, the K.K.K., Westboro, many cult's from hell.

Bred the Nazis ? Wow ! :blink:

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An Urban Leg3nd
15 hours ago, and then said:

An den?  The scripture says nothing about the strong delusion emanating from a holy source.  In fact it makes more sense that it would not come from a religion at all.  In today's world if an alien ship appeared with mind numbing tech, how many people would reject the idea that it was truly an ET?  Especially if the creatures laid out a wonderful story of how we were seeded millennia ago and now we needed saving.  People who scoff at the idea of God would lap this up like a dog in a butcher shop. 

 

Actually bro,...if you read the bible, it says specifically that the people who don't believe the gospel or believe in Jesus, God himself will send them a "strong delusion" so that they may believe a lie. Mystic just quoted it for you. Think about that,...even though many don't believe in Jesus, instead of opening their eyes to who he was-God will send people a strong delusion so that they purposely believe something which is false. Is that characteristics of a loving Creator folks? Re-read what I just said. God could open these people's eyes, he can do ANYTHING(remember), but he purposely deceives them. Sorry man, people who deceive other people are ..shady individuals with evil intentions. God throughout the bible, deceives a hell of a lot of people ON PURPOSE. Why? I cannot account for, but he does it. He's evil.  I insult him by calling him "Satan"...although he may be distinct and different from Satan. But really? In what ways?! God does more killing, sacrificing, and other things on a global scale...much more than Satan is ever recorded to. For along time I blamed the evil things of this world on Satan, the wars, murders, raped, pedophilia's,..but according to the bible-God creates evil. He creates the evils and all the displeasures you experience in this world, the good AND the bad. Pretty incredible claims if you look into it. Something to ponder,...if God is omnipotent and benevolent or loving, why introduce or create evil into this world at all? Couldn't he envision a better scheme of things to govern and inhibit the affairs of the world? Could have,..but chose not to. All stuff believers themselves need to question and think about. These facts put their religion in bad position when it comes to explaining the origin of this world.

 

17 hours ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Regarding the OP's first sentence: please explain how G-d is Satan/Ha-Satan in context with the Book of Job. 

Well, initially I said I think God is Satan. But what I meant by it is not what you think. I call God "Satan" because of the level of evil attributed to God in the bible. That is,...the things he done which are evil, outnumber Satan- a created being. I should have said, ...God of the bible is not benevolent but "malevolent" instead. God,...if he exist, is evil instead of good. The bible likes to call God in many verses "the God of Peace" yet in the Old Testament we have God saying many times "God is a man of war"..or the "God of War". How can God be both a "Man of War" and a "God of Peace" at the same time? It makes no sense. It contradicts itself on a number of occasions. God is said to create peace and make evil. He does both,..so what does that make him? I dunno. But can he do both and still be benevolent? How can God be an "All Loving Creator",..yet outright call himself "a Jealous God" , "a Vengeful God" or a "God who wishes to be feared"? If God wishes to be feared, I wouldn't worship him! There is no fear in love. There cannot be. But the bible maintains that it's believers should "FEAR GOD" and obey him with "fear and trembling". Really?? A Loving Creator,..are you kidding me? It sounds more like your being told to worship Satan, a demonic being! And if you don't serve him and be afraid while you do it, you risk punishment or go to hell for your disobedience.  That's what I meant by my statement God may be Satan. Satan is not God though, but God does more evil than Satan. So let the chips fall where they may.

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Rlyeh
19 hours ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Regarding the OP's first sentence: please explain how G-d is Satan/Ha-Satan in context with the Book of Job. 

Not saying that God is Satan but throughout the Bible God tends to talk to himself.

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and then
4 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

Actually bro,...if you read the bible, it says specifically that the people who don't believe the gospel or believe in Jesus, God himself will send them a "strong delusion" so that they may believe a lie. Mystic just quoted it for you. Think about that,...even though many don't believe in Jesus, instead of opening their eyes to who he was-God will send people a strong delusion so that they purposely believe something which is false. Is that characteristics of a loving Creator folks? Re-read what I just said. God could open these people's eyes, he can do ANYTHING(remember), but he purposely deceives them. Sorry man, people who deceive other people are ..shady individuals with evil intentions. God throughout the bible, deceives a hell of a lot of people ON PURPOSE. Why? I cannot account for, but he does it. He's evil.  I insult him by calling him "Satan"...although he may be distinct and different from Satan. But really? In what ways?! God does more killing, sacrificing, and other things on a global scale...much more than Satan is ever recorded to. For along time I blamed the evil things of this world on Satan, the wars, murders, raped, pedophilia's,..but according to the bible-God creates evil. He creates the evils and all the displeasures you experience in this world, the good AND the bad. Pretty incredible claims if you look into it. Something to ponder,...if God is omnipotent and benevolent or loving, why introduce or create evil into this world at all? Couldn't he envision a better scheme of things to govern and inhibit the affairs of the world? Could have,..but chose not to. All stuff believers themselves need to question and think about. These facts put their religion in bad position when it comes to explaining the origin of this world.

 

Well, initially I said I think God is Satan. But what I meant by it is not what you think. I call God "Satan" because of the level of evil attributed to God in the bible. That is,...the things he done which are evil, outnumber Satan- a created being. I should have said, ...God of the bible is not benevolent but "malevolent" instead. God,...if he exist, is evil instead of good. The bible likes to call God in many verses "the God of Peace" yet in the Old Testament we have God saying many times "God is a man of war"..or the "God of War". How can God be both a "Man of War" and a "God of Peace" at the same time? It makes no sense. It contradicts itself on a number of occasions. God is said to create peace and make evil. He does both,..so what does that make him? I dunno. But can he do both and still be benevolent? How can God be an "All Loving Creator",..yet outright call himself "a Jealous God" , "a Vengeful God" or a "God who wishes to be feared"? If God wishes to be feared, I wouldn't worship him! There is no fear in love. There cannot be. But the bible maintains that it's believers should "FEAR GOD" and obey him with "fear and trembling". Really?? A Loving Creator,..are you kidding me? It sounds more like your being told to worship Satan, a demonic being! And if you don't serve him and be afraid while you do it, you risk punishment or go to hell for your disobedience.  That's what I meant by my statement God may be Satan. Satan is not God though, but God does more evil than Satan. So let the chips fall where they may.

The problem I think most non believers have with God is that they tend to anthropomorphize him.  God is not a man and in fact he created man.  The fact that you and others here refuse to believe this does not offend me.  But if you were to open your minds even the slightest bit and imagine that he is real, he exists and he is who he says he is then you'd have a lot less trouble recognizing his SOVEREIGNTY.  His decisions will stand regardless of how we feel about them.  Think a moment how you'd react if a precocious and conceited 8 year old began telling you he knows better how you should live your life.  You think of him as an arrogant little pea brain and dismiss him out of hand...UNLESS he was YOUR precocious 8 year old.  Then you'd make every effort to explain things to him so that he would accept your judgments, which are for his best interests.  Of course you have every right to deny, dismiss, rail at or hate the Creator.  As you say, let the chips fall where they may.

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An Urban Leg3nd
21 minutes ago, and then said:

The problem I think most non believers have with God is that they tend to anthropomorphize him.  God is not a man and in fact he created man.  The fact that you and others here refuse to believe this does not offend me.  But if you were to open your minds even the slightest bit and imagine that he is real, he exists and he is who he says he is then you'd have a lot less trouble recognizing his SOVEREIGNTY.  His decisions will stand regardless of how we feel about them.  Think a moment how you'd react if a precocious and conceited 8 year old began telling you he knows better how you should live your life.  You think of him as an arrogant little pea brain and dismiss him out of hand...UNLESS he was YOUR precocious 8 year old.  Then you'd make every effort to explain things to him so that he would accept your judgments, which are for his best interests.  Of course you have every right to deny, dismiss, rail at or hate the Creator.  As you say, let the chips fall where they may.

5

You see, it is not us unbelievers who try to anthropomorphize God, ...it's the bible which does it. The bible contradicts itself on this issue though. In one place it says "God is not a man, but a spirit". Yet in other places it says "God is a man" of this and that. "The Lord is a man of war". Remember that? God resembles that of a man in the bible because he displays many different heated emotions that men also resemble. How can you explain that? God admits to being , angry, vengeful, hateful, repetitive at times,wrathful above many things, and lastly despite many of his previous emotions- loving. It damn sure seems as if God is a very emotional man or being. Emotions are reactionary though, how likely are to you be a particular emotion if you knew the future in it's entirety ahead of time? God's angry at humans for doing A or B...yet he seen us doing this an eternity before we did it. He's All-Knowing. Now being All Knowing doesn't make him void of emotion, but how would anyone react if they knew things in totality an eternity before they happened? You wouldn't react to things as normal humans would who dont know what is going to happen.  It's hard for us to wrap your mind around that. I don't think bad things when people posit that a creator "could" exist,...my point is if he did exist, he's not benevolent. He's evil. You speak of God's Sovereignty over humans,..God may very well be sovereign but that doesn't stop us humans from viewing his actions and categorizing them as either "good" or "evil". We ate from the tree of knowledge, we not know of good and evil. God of all people, despite his disposition cannot lead by example. At all! God cannot lead by example because we humans cannot do what God does without ourselves becoming evil. God is the only one throughout the bible who has total authority to kill or murder on a massive scale anyone he chooses to. God is the only one throughout the entire bible who can get away with doing those things and still be looked upon as "good". I totally disagree and think it's nonsensical for someone believe such things. It's ignorant. If a being does evil things, ...maybe, just maybe that being is evil. If a being does good things, maybe, just maybe that being is good. Jesus even said it, how can a bad tree bear good fruit,..so likewise how can a good tree bear bad fruit? How can God being "all good" he himself do evil things? Any way you want to look at it, murder is murder. Apparently, if God murders men, women, and children it's still a good thing because God did it and he had a purpose for doing it. If we murder men, women, and children we are called mass murderers and sick men. Big difference.

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lightly

 hi Urban,   i notice you are an Atheist... but keep mentioning Good and Evil.   A lot of atheists and agnostics seem to believe in the existence of Good and Evil.    And i suppose it makes sense if Good and Evil are merely concepts or descriptions of human behavior  ...  but I always have to wonder how actual Good or Evil can exist without the existence of , sort of,  the Authors or Creators .. of Each?  

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HalfAnIdiot
7 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

(Edited for content)

 

Well, initially I said I think God is Satan. But what I meant by it is not what you think. I call God "Satan" because of the level of evil attributed to God in the bible. That is,...the things he done which are evil, outnumber Satan- a created being. I should have said, ...God of the bible is not benevolent but "malevolent" instead. God,...if he exist, is evil instead of good. The bible likes to call God in many verses "the God of Peace" yet in the Old Testament we have God saying many times "God is a man of war"..or the "God of War". How can God be both a "Man of War" and a "God of Peace" at the same time? It makes no sense. It contradicts itself on a number of occasions. God is said to create peace and make evil. He does both,..so what does that make him? I dunno. But can he do both and still be benevolent? How can God be an "All Loving Creator",..yet outright call himself "a Jealous God" , "a Vengeful God" or a "God who wishes to be feared"? If God wishes to be feared, I wouldn't worship him! There is no fear in love. There cannot be. But the bible maintains that it's believers should "FEAR GOD" and obey him with "fear and trembling". Really?? A Loving Creator,..are you kidding me? It sounds more like your being told to worship Satan, a demonic being! And if you don't serve him and be afraid while you do it, you risk punishment or go to hell for your disobedience.  That's what I meant by my statement God may be Satan. Satan is not God though, but God does more evil than Satan. So let the chips fall where they may.

Thank you for the response.

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An Urban Leg3nd
1 hour ago, lightly said:

 hi Urban,   i notice you are an Atheist... but keep mentioning Good and Evil.   A lot of atheists and agnostics seem to believe in the existence of Good and Evil.    And i suppose it makes sense if Good and Evil are merely concepts or descriptions of human behavior  ...  but I always have to wonder how actual Good or Evil can exist without the existence of , sort of,  the Authors or Creators .. of Each?  

 

Hey!!:P

Well, I am an atheist, as in I dont believe in God, but that doesn't exclude me in believing in such things as good or evil. They exists, we know that. As you've said, good or evil are merely descriptions of our actions or human behavior. But the concept of "good or evil" itself can be a subjective one, in so much as what's good to one person may be evil to another, or vice versa. I think objectively though we can agree that evil is constituted as any action which causes pain or suffering to someone else. Good can be considered as something done which causes pleasure,happiness, or any positive affect to something else. Good and evil are very easy to distinguish because of their nature. With regards to what you said on creators of each, I don't think good or evil can exists if we didnt have people or life itself. For instance, before our universe was created or made was there good or evil in existence? I don't think so, because there supposedly was no life anywhere. It was just nothing. In order for good or evil to exist, there must be life for it's existence. We can't have one without the other. Humans do good sometimes, humans do evil sometimes. Me personally, I brought up good and evil so much to shed some light on the biblical God, he openly admits to creating evil. The bible says, God creates evil. By evil it goes far to define such, evil is war, murder, calamities, disasters and things of that such. The implications are pretty heavy when you think about it, God here is giving a public confession that "all of those bad things that happen in the world you live in...I cause those things." Very sad. It says he creates both good and evil actually.  If I was God or a Creator, and I actually cared about my creations I wouldn't have created evil at all. I wouldn't have introduced it for whatever reason. Evil causes harm and suffering to people, ...why would I ever want to introduce such a thing into the world? What divine benevolent basis would there be for God creating evil? Does evil have to exist in order for good to exist? Apparently not,...because before humanity existed only God and his angels existed; there was no sin or evil, only good. But for some reason, God decided to create such a thing. God decided to create Lucifer who he knew would betray him afterward. God also knew a third of his own angels would turn against him and side with Satan who would then rage a war for souls on humanity out of hatred,...God created these evil beings anyway. He didn't have to though. God can be bound by nothing if he sets the rules, he didnt have to create evil. Imagine that, you know ALL THINGS and you foresee a third of your angels who originally were created as good beings turning against you and becoming evil, filled with hatred for you and humans something else you created. If I see this ahead of time, and I foresee the measurable consequences of their evil, I can prevent this by not creating these angels at all! God created Lucifer and a third of his angels anyway. It's almost as if God was not omniscient enough to see this in order to prevent it, or he wanted it to happen. Any person with common sense or intelligence would prevent such a catastrophe. God did not though. This may be something we all as humans may never truly understand. It may take our eventual death to see God himself and his abode to actually understand why God did what he did or didn't do. Until then, it's nonsensical and a mystery. Why would God do such a thing eludes us. That's why the world is the way it is today. God designed for it to be that way,...presupposing he exists. Which is why put forth an idea,...maybe God is evil instead of good. There is just no other way to look at it, until we meet him.

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and then

I agree with you on the "until we meet him" part :)  My problem with the anti Creator types - and it's actually a minor one - is that they seem to assume they can understand ALL things and that knowing all these things they can sit in judgement of the Creator.  It just doesn't work that way.  So when we meet him I'm sure he'll make everything clear for all of us.  Even believers probably misunderstand things about his message.  I just look forward to meeting him.  

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XenoFish

I think I've gotten past the god hate part. I just don't care about god, it's existence or non-existence. Means nothing to me anymore. What I have problems with is the justified cruelty that people do. Doesn't matter what belief it is. Last I checked we're the product of billions of years of successful breeding. Need to act like a better pedigree.

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Phaeton80
11 hours ago, and then said:

I agree with you on the "until we meet him" part :)  My problem with the anti Creator types - and it's actually a minor one - is that they seem to assume they can understand ALL things and that knowing all these things they can sit in judgement of the Creator.  It just doesn't work that way.  So when we meet him I'm sure he'll make everything clear for all of us.  Even believers probably misunderstand things about his message.  I just look forward to meeting him.  

 

Ah, like those people who sit in judgement of whole religious congregations - branding all these people as inherently evil by association - assuming they are in a position of complete and unbiased oversight?

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Rlyeh
22 hours ago, and then said:

The problem I think most non believers have with God is that they tend to anthropomorphize him.  God is not a man and in fact he created man.

I found that the other way. God is already anthropomorphize in the Bible, he's jealous, ignorant and unfair. If he was a man fewer would defend his flaws. 

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and then
4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

Ah, like those people who sit in judgement of whole religious congregations - branding all these people as inherently evil by association - assuming they are in a position of complete and unbiased oversight?

You should consider sobering up.  The tired old refrain is getting boring.  When things like Paris, Nice , London and Madrid continue to happen to the accompaniment of "God is greater" it one day WILL become a fight against all Muslims.  You're too intelligent to misunderstand my words so I must assume you are intentionally misconstruing to deflect.  Stop derailing this thread with that stupidity, yeah?

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and then
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

I found that the other way. God is already anthropomorphize in the Bible, he's jealous, ignorant and unfair. If he was a man fewer would defend his flaws. 

Not to worry Rlyeh, when you meet him you can give him an earful.  I'm sure he'll explain it all to your satisfaction.

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GlitterRose
On 7/13/2016 at 4:35 PM, Habitat said:

Bred the Nazis ? Wow ! :blink:

It's certainly used by people who don't like jews, etc. Would we still have had Nazis without the bible? I'm pretty sure we would have. We wouldn't have had the Christian Identity movement without it, though. 

How Mel Gibson feels about jews, and how he used the Passion...

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0hrmN7_XNAhVG8CYKHX2TDHEQFghWMAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Ftvshowbiz%2Farticle-2128567%2FMel-Gibson-said-hates-jews-Joe-Eszterhas-blasts-Mel-Gibson-page-letter.html&usg=AFQjCNFaSa0KVkUTVIG7ICyox3bF9fHDwA

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GlitterRose
2 minutes ago, and then said:

Not to worry Rlyeh, when you meet him you can give him an earful.  I'm sure he'll explain it all to your satisfaction.

Well, what's "he" waiting for, then? 

That's always the answer. You'll know it when "he" comes. 

How many years until Christians realize nobody's coming? It's been a while now. 

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GlitterRose
7 minutes ago, and then said:

You should consider sobering up.  The tired old refrain is getting boring.  When things like Paris, Nice , London and Madrid continue to happen to the accompaniment of "God is greater" it one day WILL become a fight against all Muslims.  You're too intelligent to misunderstand my words so I must assume you are intentionally misconstruing to deflect.  Stop derailing this thread with that stupidity, yeah?

Who's derailing here? You're the one bringing up a fight against all Muslims in a discussion about God and Satan. 

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Phaeton80
6 minutes ago, and then said:

You should consider sobering up.  The tired old refrain is getting boring.  When things like Paris, Nice , London and Madrid continue to happen to the accompaniment of "God is greater" it one day WILL become a fight against all Muslims.  You're too intelligent to misunderstand my words so I must assume you are intentionally misconstruing to deflect.  Stop derailing this thread with that stupidity, yeah?

 

Then you will be morally and spiritually at fault. Interesting to note what it takes for a Christian to start demanding the mass culling of innocent people, given you are too intelligent to not realize this is exactly what you would be doing.

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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, and then said:

Not to worry Rlyeh, when you meet him you can give him an earful.  I'm sure he'll explain it all to your satisfaction.

I have no delusions over meeting fictional characters.

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GlitterRose
3 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

Then you will be morally and spiritually at fault. Interesting to note what it takes for a Christian to start demanding the mass culling of innocent people, given you are too intelligent to not realize this is exactly what you would be doing.

Instant amnesia about that turn the other cheek thing.

Matthew 5:44King James Version (KJV)

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Edited by ChaosRose
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Phaeton80

Although I appreciate your sentiment; there is big difference between the concept of turning the other cheek, and demanding the termination of millions of innocent people based on the actions of a minority.

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GlitterRose
Just now, Phaeton80 said:

Although I appreciate your sentiment; there is big difference between the concept of turning the other cheek, and demanding the termination of millions of innocent people based on the actions of a minority.

Well...yeah. That was my point. Christians are supposed to react to persecution in a particular way, and that way does not include genocide. 

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GoldenWolf
11 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Instant amnesia about that turn the other cheek thing.

Matthew 5:44King James Version (KJV)

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Problem is, too many use that as a license to bludgeon others, and then spout out they have Jesus and are saved.  It's a double standard.

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GlitterRose
6 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Problem is, too many use that as a license to bludgeon others, and then spout out they have Jesus and are saved.  It's a double standard.

I just can't find where "Jesus" said to bludgeon your enemies. Hard as I may have looked. 

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