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Baz Dane

Clinton Email Scandal Facts

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.ZZ.
56 minutes ago, Silver_Lyre said:

LOL... Comey will be on hands and knees, praying that the entire episode disappears. History will not be kind to him and neither will the neo-cons and democrats.  

Comey and his boss Lynch are so done!

 

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Zenith
19 hours ago, -ZZ- said:

This isn't over yet.

Just watch.

I think it is. Trump is pretty much avoiding any discussion regarding his campaign promise of going after her which I'm glad about because going after her at this point is wrong in so many ways. So kudos to him if he drops it. There's always the possibility of new information coming to light, but even if that happened, I was reading some of Clair's posts on this and if I remember correctly she said something about the mishandling of classified information not being a criminal offense. I'm not sure how the law was interpreted but maybe if Clair has the time she an explain it further so we get a better understanding of it.

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preacherman76

You cant judge anything right now. He isn't the president yet.

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Zenith
18 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You cant judge anything right now. He isn't the president yet.

What do you mean?

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Black Red Devil
16 hours ago, Silver_Lyre said:

LOL... Comey will be on hands and knees, praying that the entire episode disappears. History will not be kind to him and neither will the neo-cons and democrats.  

I'm sure he was promised a good payout for his services from his fellow Neocons.  They'll look after him.  After all he deserves it, he won them an election.

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preacherman76
11 minutes ago, Zenith said:

What do you mean?

I mean till he puts his hand on that bible and moves into the white house, 0bama is still in charge. Trump right now is trying to make that transition of power go smooth. It would be to his benefit to do that.

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Zenith
Just now, preacherman76 said:

I mean till he puts his hand on that bible and moves into the white house, 0bama is still in charge. Trump right now is trying to make that transition of power go smooth. It would be to his benefit to do that.

Yeah I agree. But there's pressure on him to talk policy which isn't fair in some ways as he needs a chance to sit down and talk with his team. I also wish some of his team members and surrogates shut up already as they're all giving mixed messages. Let the man figure out what he wants to do and let him speak for himself.

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Merc14
6 hours ago, Zenith said:

I think it is. Trump is pretty much avoiding any discussion regarding his campaign promise of going after her which I'm glad about because going after her at this point is wrong in so many ways. So kudos to him if he drops it. There's always the possibility of new information coming to light, but even if that happened, I was reading some of Clair's posts on this and if I remember correctly she said something about the mishandling of classified information not being a criminal offense. I'm not sure how the law was interpreted but maybe if Clair has the time she an explain it further so we get a better understanding of it.

So you think committing a crime is OK if you are a democrat?   The President doesn't prosecute criminal cases, the DoJ does and if the FBI recommends impaneling the grand jury then the Attorney General should do so and prosecute these people who sold US foreign policy for personal gain. 

5 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

I'm sure he was promised a good payout for his services from his fellow Neocons.  They'll look after him.  After all he deserves it, he won them an election.

*SNIP*

Edited by Lilly
personal remark removed
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Lilly

Ok, all the personal remarks/insults will stop immediately. Posting is a privilege and staying within UM rules is required to keep that privilege.

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The Truman show
8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

I'm sure he was promised a good payout for his services from his fellow Neocons.  They'll look after him.  After all he deserves it, he won them an election.

If nothing else he certainly contributed. I guess its early days and hard to say whether a Trump administration will continue any neo- con policies like regime change but i would have thought that Hillary was closer to the neo - con narrative, than inward looking 'make America great again' Trump. Empire building has no political party. 

  

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third_eye

One thing that made me laugh on one of those Political Commentary Programs where a Political Analyst made a glib side swipe mentioning that Comey has nothing to worry about because Trump 'owes' him a big one ...

:lol:

~

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stereologist

What a long thread. I wish I had kept up with this months ago.

One of the pieces I think is missing in this thread is the idea of trust. The thread mentions several levels of trust. One is top secret. There is a definition for that term. Another is secret. It is distinct from top secret. The definitions are not necessary to post. Then there is unclassified. Finally, there is a category called private which is material not part of the government information stream.

In a trust system it is important that connections and transfers of information are not made across trust boundaries. This means that secret information should not be moved to a top secret area be it computers, papers, videos, or anything containing the information. Unclassified should not be moved to a secret area. Secret is kept with secret, top secret with top secret, unclassified with unclassified. Private should never be mixed with any government information.

It should be very obvious to anyone that top secret should never be moved to secret or unclassified or private. There should be no movement of secret to unclassified areas or private areas.

When the private email server was connected to the government system the law was broken. The trust systems were mixed. The people that installed the mail server broken the law.

Someone may wonder if it is possible if the installers were not aware of the issue. That would be wrong. To perform work for the government these installers would be required to have a clearance. if they have a clearance then they took courses online that discuss document handling. The courses cover handling documents, the meanings of different levels of security, how to handle spillage, etc.

So someone is now wondering if they took the courses, but forgot.  The installers are required as are all government employees and contractors to take refresher courses on a regular basis. You won't forget that because the course load can cover most or all of day - at a minimum. These courses are mandatory. You may lose your employment and access unless the mandatory courses are taken.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that the installers all took the 5th. Now you know why. They knew what they were doing was illegal. The question is why they did not follow protocol which requires that they report any incident which has any appearance of being a rule breaker, or troubling. They installed a server they had to have known was in violation of security rules and therefore subject to the penalties which are mentioned in the courses. They did not follow up the work by reporting the incident which they were required to do.

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stereologist

The question of course is whether Hillary was aware of the consequences of a private email server connected into a government system. That might depend on whether or not she was taking the mandatory courses. Maybe she was in violation of that rule as well. I'm guessing she deemed herself, or someone else deemed her too important and was allowed not to take the course. But that is no excuse for the installers.

So what we had was called spillage. Not only was the information spillage directly done by the private email server usage, but that spillage continued through wikileaks and the laptop from Wiener's wife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spillage_of_classified_information

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Merc14
16 minutes ago, stereologist said:

The question of course is whether Hillary was aware of the consequences of a private email server connected into a government system. That might depend on whether or not she was taking the mandatory courses. Maybe she was in violation of that rule as well. I'm guessing she deemed herself, or someone else deemed her too important and was allowed not to take the course. But that is no excuse for the installers.

So what we had was called spillage. Not only was the information spillage directly done by the private email server usage, but that spillage continued through wikileaks and the laptop from Wiener's wife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spillage_of_classified_information

She has been in public service for the last two decades and was most certainly aware of what constitutes classified information.  The fact of the matter is she just didn't care and in true Clinton fashion sees herself as untouchable.  The real question is WHY did she want a mail server that was completely under her control?   My guess is that she wanted to make sure she could erase all of the emails being written in conjunction with the illegal activities being conducted through the Clinton Foundation. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars the Clintons used a as slush fund and  she knows they could be in real trouble if the wrong administration got a hold of that traffic.  Currently the FBI has 4-5 field offices investigating the Clinton Foundation and supposedly they even recommended that the DoJ impanel a grand jury, a request that Loretta Lynch refused to abide by.  This long article does a pretty good job of raking through teh dung heap of corruption that is the Clinton Foundation http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441675/clinton-foundation-fbi-investigation-loretta-lynch-obstruction

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Zenith
On 2016-11-12 at 10:22 AM, Merc14 said:

So you think committing a crime is OK if you are a democrat?   The President doesn't prosecute criminal cases, the DoJ does and if the FBI recommends impaneling the grand jury then the Attorney General should do so and prosecute these people who sold US foreign policy for personal gain. 

That's not what I wrote. The FBI recommended that Hillary not be indicted, and the DoJ concurred. They saw no evidence that she committed a crime under the law. What you think or I think doesn't matter... the law does. Anyway, don't ask me, ask Claire.. she can better explain the legalities of it than I can.

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stereologist
42 minutes ago, Zenith said:

That's not what I wrote. The FBI recommended that Hillary not be indicted, and the DoJ concurred. They saw no evidence that she committed a crime under the law. What you think or I think doesn't matter... the law does. Anyway, don't ask me, ask Claire.. she can better explain the legalities of it than I can.

What I see is that Hillary was given a get out of jail free card. It has been made clear to me that if I examine the wikileaks documents I will contribute to further spillage.

It is not that they saw no evidence of a crime being committed, but rather they decided not to prosecute.

Maybe the new sheriff in town won't be as accommodating.

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Zenith
1 minute ago, stereologist said:

What I see is that Hillary was given a get out of jail free card. It has been made clear to me that if I examine the wikileaks documents I will contribute to further spillage.

It is not that they saw no evidence of a crime being committed, but rather they decided not to prosecute.

Maybe the new sheriff in town won't be as accommodating.

The new sheriff in town won't have a hope in hell of prosecuting. She wasn't given a get out of jail card at all. There was no evidence of a crime period. But sure Trump can go after her if he wants (which he wont because he may be a lot of things but he's not that much of an ass)... and if he does go after her, the precedent it sets will not look good on him at all.... not only would it get more people against him, it will all have been for nothing,

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stereologist
10 minutes ago, Zenith said:

The new sheriff in town won't have a hope in hell of prosecuting. She wasn't given a get out of jail card at all. There was no evidence of a crime period. But sure Trump can go after her if he wants (which he wont because he may be a lot of things but he's not that much of an ass)... and if he does go after her, the precedent it sets will not look good on him at all.... not only would it get more people against him, it will all have been for nothing,

No crime? That's probably because you have no idea about the rules involved in handling government documents. The evidence of a crime begins as soon as a private, i.e. non-government computer as used to download from a government system. Why do you think the installers invoked the 5th? They knew that they did not follow protocol which required them to report spillage, the potential for spillage, questionable access, or any of the other issues involved.

Hillary could have used a government system yet she chose not to. Why do you think she chose to do that?

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Zenith
6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

No crime? That's probably because you have no idea about the rules involved in handling government documents. The evidence of a crime begins as soon as a private, i.e. non-government computer as used to download from a government system. Why do you think the installers invoked the 5th? They knew that they did not follow protocol which required them to report spillage, the potential for spillage, questionable access, or any of the other issues involved.

Hillary could have used a government system yet she chose not to. Why do you think she chose to do that?

What rules are you referring to specifically?

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stereologist
1 minute ago, Zenith said:

What rules are you referring to specifically?

The rules that govern handling government documents.

If you are unaware that there are rules for handling government documents then I suggest that you take an online course.

Let me repeat:

Hillary could have used a government system yet she chose not to. Why do you think she chose to do that?

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Farmer77
23 minutes ago, Zenith said:

The new sheriff in town won't have a hope in hell of prosecuting. She wasn't given a get out of jail card at all. There was no evidence of a crime period. But sure Trump can go after her if he wants (which he wont because he may be a lot of things but he's not that much of an ass)... and if he does go after her, the precedent it sets will not look good on him at all.... not only would it get more people against him, it will all have been for nothing,

Its been demonstrated before that people without privilidge lose their jobs and potentially their freedom for doing the exact same thing she did in regards to the email. 

Its the clinton foundation and providing access to the white house for profit which I think is the most dangerous for Clinton. Its also the hardest to prove in court, but to human beings (aka not lawyers) it looks like a pretty blatant quid pro quo. 

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Zenith
1 minute ago, stereologist said:

The rules that govern handling government documents.

If you are unaware that there are rules for handling government documents then I suggest that you take an online course.

You didn't answer my question. I'm aware (superficially) of the laws and she didn't break any. Rules and laws are two different things in my mind.

As for why she used a private email system... you should ask her. I don't know.

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Zenith
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its been demonstrated before that people without privilidge lose their jobs and potentially their freedom for doing the exact same thing she did in regards to the email. 

Its the clinton foundation and providing access to the white house for profit which I think is the most dangerous for Clinton. Its also the hardest to prove in court, but to human beings (aka not lawyers) it looks like a pretty blatant quid pro quo. 

Losing her job would have been up to her boss... so she got off the hook there. But she did not break any laws.

The foundation could very well be a problem I don't know as I haven't really looked into much. I do know that Trump used money from his foundation to pay personal legal ills and purchase a life size portrait of himself... that kind of stinks too don't ya think? lol

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stereologist

You have no evidence other than the get out of jail free card handed to her.

The rules come with penalties which I have already posted in this thread.

Apparently you know nothing at all about the issue and pretend that nothing happened. Shame on you. You don't even know Hillary's pathetic excuse.

The reason someone uses a private server is to control the server and the information on it. As we can all see the emails were hacked and leaked and even after Hillary and her staffed lied about a wide spread Russian conspiracy (she changed from a wide spread right wing conspiracy) and lied about faked emails she used the private server in a manner which is not allowed, i.e. spillage.

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stereologist
4 minutes ago, Zenith said:

Losing her job would have been up to her boss... so she got off the hook there. But she did not break any laws.

The foundation could very well be a problem I don't know as I haven't really looked into much. I do know that Trump used money from his foundation to pay personal legal ills and purchase a life size portrait of himself... that kind of stinks too don't ya think? lol

The simple act of connecting a private server to the government system is a violation of the law. The installers all went 5th because they are in trouble.

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