god doesn't want your belief

[An Urban Leg3nd]

14 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I will place my 40 years of bible study and raise you experience with 4 major christian faiths  (studying with them)  and half a dozen minor ones  This is one of the critical errors made by some Christians and turns some people away fromm god First ALL humans were saved by christs sacrifice from the original sin of adam and eve.  That is indisputably biblical theology.

But then individuals also chose to sin or not sin.  If we ask forgiveness make restitution and promise to try and  sin no more we may also be saved  from our own individual sins    Belief in itself is not enough  and nor is faith. Works are NOT required for salvation but any man who truly believes will be transformed into a new man and thus his works will alter . A promise, even of the heart, offers no evidence to god of a true repentance. 

I  AGREED with you that a deliberate rejection of salvation damns one in christian theology, basically because faith based salvation requires belief and faith, and you cant be saved by an entity you dont believe in. SO, reject christs offer and your own sins mAY go unpardoned. But god has the final say and is both just and merciful  Do you honestly believe that all those humans for millenia who preexisted christ cannot be saved or all those who never heard of him> In vivlical theology you are only lost if you CHHOSE to be lost

The reason few will be saved, despite all being saved from original sin, is that relatively few will make the effort to seek and accept salvation under the conditions required. Few will genuinely repent, even fewer will try to make restitution, and fewer still will try real hard not o sin any more. We are ALL already saved . All we have to do is accept that salvation.  If few will be saved it will be because few will accept the terms required.  some exclusionist churches try to set conditions on gods love and mercy  but that is not biblica;l it is unconditional as long as we can accept it and change ourselves.

In the bible there is no hell as portrayed in Catholicism Bible texts make it totally clear that, when we die our body goes into the ground and our soul goes to sleep. We are awakened on one of two Resurrection days (for the saved and the lost ) The lost are then burned for ever and destroyed bod yand soul while the saved spend some time in heaven before being restored to the new earth  It sounds like you had a solid grounding in Catholicism or one of the churches which uses fear to try and get you to be good The reformation showed us the weakness/incorrectness of catholic theology when compared to the bible but unfortunately some protestant churches also followed their lead 

Biblically people either get eternal life or they die We get a fair and just judgement according to biblical theology and can even check the books of judgement to see why god judges as he does. Those who live are those who have shown they are safe to be given immortality and can regulate their behaviours  If you have shown an inability to do this, how can you be let into a paradise where there will be no hate no death, no decay, no fear, no anger etc.   It would just be eden all over again. 

How much time have you actually spent studying the bible, and with whom. Or are you just taking the word of some book or someone else's opinion on it? 

Do you just believe people who preach hate, inequality, division,  and an exclusionist approach to god.? The new earth is for ALL humans. potentially ANYONE could get there. Those who never heard of christ will be there If their hearts and minds are right with god.    I dont argue with people who want to spread Christianity, because it is a good religion,  but  people from islam ,jews buddhists etc will ALL  get to the new earth. so spreading the gospel isnt necessary to save people. Some do believe christ wont return until all mankind has heard the gospel, of course.

  this is the covenant god made with ALL humanity.  In a sense, knowing of Christ makes it harder in christian theology,  because THEN we have to fulfil the requirements of christ to get to the new earth. But they are not that hard  Try to be good, treat others as yourself,   repent any sins, make restitution to anyone sinned against, and do your hones t best NOT to sin in body or mind. 

 

But you are right; how can anyone imagine being saved by a power entity or force which the y do not even believe exists and whose authority they reject?. . So belief is necessary once one hears of the choices.. 

Ignorance of god and christ damn no one, but rejection of them does, because WE make that choice and are thus responsible for it.. 

it is why bionically, all children get a free pass to the new earth. They were saved, by Christs sacrifice, from original sin, and cannot sin, as children know no better and  individual sin requires deliberate choices.. 

Well, we really have nothing to argue about. You've conceded to my original point that- disbelief in Jesus brings condemnation according to the bible. You admit if you deliberately reject Jesus you are condemned. So basically, billions of people around the entire world who practice the wrong religion(among 1000's) all are unbelievers and are going to goto hell when they die. If there is a God who deliberately structured things in this way, I think that being, that deity, has to be one of the most cruel beings ever to exist. People will literally goto hell on the basis of practicing the wrong religion despite how "good" their heart or ways may be. Even you can agree this is entirely unfair and cruel. It's evil really. Jesus himself said, salvation is based on "faith" or believing, not works or anything else. With regards to the unsaved world outside Christianity, Jesus says "he who is not with me is against me". He also says "he who does not hate his own family, wife, sons, daughters, yea even his own life,...is not worthy of me and cannot follow me". Im sorry Jesus, but this excluded practically the entire human race because I for one can attest to this, many people may believe in Christianity but they DO NOT hate their loves ones. They do not hate they're family members on the basis of following Jesus. Not only that, millions of Christians damn sure aren't going around selling all of their possessions and giving it to the poor so that they can have "treasure" in heaven. The things Jesus says are literally insane, and no rational being would take serious. If anything, he would look like a mad man; like an insane person.

Beyond many of the other things Jesus says which justify anyone disbelieving in him, he says openly that "I came not to bring peace on earth,...but the sword". In the Old Testament God is said to sent "the sword" at his enemies". Think of that. That speaks volumes about what Jesus real purpose for coming to earth was. He says he's come not to bring peace, but "division". Jesus said " I came to set a man at variance against his family. I came to set the son against the father, the daughter against the mother, and son in law against the father in law and the mother in law against the daughter in law". Yes, Jesus actually said this. To tell people I came not to bring you peace or unity, but the opposite- division, has to be the epitome of evil and what you would expect from not a loving God but Satan instead. Yet it was Jesus that said these things, not Satan. I could never follow such a cruel unmerciful being. This goes back to what I said in the other thread, God is evil. If there is a God that exists, he's not a benevolent being, but an evil one instead. I choose to disbelieve in such a being. Investigate it for yourself and think for yourself. Would you follow such a person who would ask of you such things no rational human being would comply with? I think you shouldn't. Actually, a time before the bible was written, there were a group of people known as the "Gnostics" who actually had a believe that Jesus was Satan instead of the loving God many make him out to be. They thought this because of some of the brief text I've brought up. There is more, but when one investigates the bible, by actually reading it, Jesus is not the loving character many Christians try to make him out to be. He's something totally different.

 

Quote

 

Matthew 10:34-36King James Version (KJV)

³⁴ Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

³⁵ For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

³⁶ And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

 

Quote

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.- Luke 14:26

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I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?- Luke 12:49

 

Quote

 

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. -Matthew 12:30

 

 

[GoldenWolf]

On 9/25/2016 at 3:52 PM, Mr Walker said:

Now, if you believe god does not have the right to judge your heart, mind, and deeds,  then you will find this unjust, and Christianity will be unappealing.  

For someone as evil/insane/narcissistic as the Abrahamic God, unappealing is an understatement.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Mystic Crusader

[Podo]

On 2016-09-11 at 10:40 AM, danielost said:

no one said love was easy.  but if we love one another our problems would go away.

You've obviously never been in a relationship before. Love is most certainly not a guarantee of no problems.

[danielost]

You have never been in love.  when in love you don't want to hurt the other person and are willing to do almost anything for them.

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, danielost said:

You have never been in love.  when in love you don't want to hurt the other person and are willing to do almost anything for them.

Amazing the insight you have into other people's lives that you no know nothing about - doesnt stop you making pronouncements about them though does it ? 

Aside from the fact that is not at all what Podo said, and since it is undeniable , you had to twist it into something else and then deny the  thing you made up, yourself . That in no way addressed the accuracy of Podo's statement .    yet again, another fail on your part.

Did your father love you Daniel , did he hurt you Daniel ?

Did jesus' father love him ?   Did he sit back and watch as he writhed in agony on his cross and died ? 

 

" almost anything "  eh ?    I wonder where you draw that line ? 

Edited September 27, 2016 by back to earth

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, danielost said:

You have never been in love.  when in love you don't want to hurt the other person and are willing to do almost anything for them.

Love is  a chemical that is bound to an idea and/or concept of the person you love. I've have had to be harsh at times to the ones I love, I would do a lot for those I love but to a degree. 

[Wes4747]

Just to re-direct, suppose god actually did need our love and belief to exist...

The potential, we could resurrect Zeus! Or Pan!! Or invent an even better god than we have ever seen!! Oh... wait... Suppose that would be 'chaotic'? Ten points if you caught that..

Love.. To properly discus, I must give you awesome people my definition of the word. To wish someone the best and do what you can to make their life better. Pretty simple huh? I find much joy in considering myself a servant, no matter my title. If I'm your boss, I serve you by being the best boss I can be. 

In a relationship, I serve my fiance. I can truly say I love everyone and when someone walks out of my life, I still wish them the best and do what I can to make their life better. 

Love doesn't have to be just chemical, and I don't believe it is. Someone's mixed up definition might be?? But hey, I love you and wish you the best 

[An Urban Leg3nd]

It is clearly beyond me how a God or deity can claim to love it's creation yet at the same time if they reject him for any reason,even out out of ignorance or error, send them to hell- a place of eternal torment for all eternity. "Loving God" and "eternal hell-fire" seem like two very contradictory concepts. If God loved you he wouldn't send you to hell for any reason, yet if God did send you to hell which is eternal separation from himself he clearly can't love you. Instead, God apparently sends the people he hates to hell instead of the people he loves. Biblically, if your an unbeliever or an unsaved man who doesn't believe in Jesus, your at enmity with God; your God's enemy. The whole idea really sucks if you think about it. What if I'm a typical human being, a decent man, I do good sometimes, I do bad sometimes, but mostly my heart is in the right place. I dont seek to harm others and I seek peace,...but I just don't believe in Jesus and don't believe in his "saving power" or anything thereof. I don't believe Jesus was even perfect, especially not considering some of the things he said in the bible. There are 1000's or even millions of people like me out there in the world,...according to modern Christianity we all are going to HELL if we die at any time. If there was a "god" out there I'm sure even a being of his intelligence can figure out this situation is very unfair and cruel. If God does exist and sends these unbelievers to hell anyway, perhaps God can't see past his own cruelty. Maybe he's too blinded by his own mind and intentions. Maybe he's too evil to see the cruelty in what's going on in a scheme he clearly setup before humanity existed.

Edited September 28, 2016 by An Urban Leg3nd

[XenoFish]

That's easy to answer. You're holding onto a human's idea of God. All this antagonism towards the belief in God is based on a "God" a bunch of desert dwellers created. There is no evidence in either direction that this bully of yours exist. The God that you so hate is based on your belief, without belief that God has no power over you.

Please for the love of paragraphs, use them

 

[Wes4747]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That's easy to answer. You're holding onto a human's idea of God. All this antagonism towards the belief in God is based on a "God" a bunch of desert dwellers created. There is no evidence in either direction that this bully of yours exist. The God that you so hate is based on your belief, without belief that God has no power over you.

Please for the love of paragraphs, use them

 

Well.. There is the small possibility that the god that might interact with us is not the creator, nor omni anything-but perhaps really powerful in our universe...

Really unfair and power hungry...

Or... Maybe God is all there is and this god is purging itself of all undesirable qualities... Played out as you and I try to keep our soul relevant to this god refining itself?? That would make us hell goers deity defecations... Lol

 

[MWoo7]

Did you know, some writers, authors, publishers fly typing with no capitalization and no paragraphs, all the i 's every last thing lowercase.  At first it makes one ill.   Then you realize/realise that's probably why some of the books are so bad with grammar, spelling structure etc.

YEP paragraphs are good, something I should work on too !

Oh, topic, I was talking to my Xeno bud ...

 

Okay theme and the topic here .... I'll tell you a truth ... one that doesn't need your belief and oh he's real all right ! guess, not too hard, requires no prayer, could give two hoots and he's real, no debate about that.

Could come to you at anytime, comes through the night riding the winds of unconscious to slide on in through your dreams.  Some song ... come to claim the wicked yeah I can't recall some old old song from the south or Africa I forget oh wellzzzz.

* LOL*

HA! I thought that said go to hell at a glance.

Edited September 28, 2016 by MWoo7
Capitalized O

[XenoFish]

Going to hell and all that is a human concept. We've created God like us. With our thoughts, feeling, and emotional needs. A God typically represents a culture at a specific point in time. 

If there is a real god, I highly doubt it would take personal interest in us. Nor would it tell someone to create a religion. That's a people thing.

[Wes4747]

8 minutes ago, MWoo7 said:

Did you know, some writers, authors, publishers fly typing with no capitalization and no paragraphs, all the i 's every last thing lowercase.  At first it makes one ill.   Then you realize/realise that's probably why some of the books are so bad with grammar, spelling structure etc.

YEP paragraphs are good, something I should work on too !

Oh, topic, I was talking to my Xeno bud ...

 

Okay theme and the topic here .... I'll tell you a truth ... one that doesn't need your belief and oh he's real all right ! guess, not too hard, requires no prayer, could give two hoots and he's real, no debate about that.

OK.. Tell us the truth!!?? Can't just Leave us hanging!!

[MWoo7]

HA! took me a while, finally get back to this, feed animals cooking etc. well yeah the kids too, no they're not animals, yet. : D

 

Alrighty where was I here, oh ... didn't like the cliffhanger eh?

THere's plenty of books about it, a top Author wrote a set ? Incarnations of Immortality or ? such, I can't recall .... brb.
Incarnations of Immortality is the name of an eight-book series by Piers Anthony.
The first seven books each focus on one of seven offices (Death, Time, Fate, War, Nature, Evil, and Good)

Another, ?? Patrick Rothfuss, telling the autobiography of Kovthe/Kvothe --FICTIONAL ! jsut to be clear...
autobiography of the legend " The Name of the Wind "delves deep, that book and possibly two others in stores at this time NEW AUTHOR but takes tooooooo LONG TO GET HIS NEXT BOOK OUT, I oh I ABSOLUTELY ! absolutely hate that, and moving on, stepping down off my little box, horns down now : D

 If you ever want to discredit anything you're writing make sure to flood it with a plethora of emoticons/smileys etc.

Older: Anna in Leo Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina, not really my style but
a good work nonetheless.

Loads of the junk about how to deal, oh grief, accept, closure all that malarkey/absurdity/nonsense --
but I like ones that have a good story .... like you can't put the book down kind of story.

I was talking about Death.

Its wide open, tons of money there to be made.

Hmmm I couldn't find a happy smiley DEATH ...

imagine that, go Figure !

 

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by MWoo7

[+DieChecker]

On 9/25/2016 at 11:58 PM, An Urban Leg3nd said:

Your entirely incorrect. Your statements aren't even remotely based on biblical teaching, or a bible anywhere. The bible, Christ, and his followers, all stress the point of "having faith" to be saved, otherwise you'd be condemned and burn in hell. You don't like the sound of that, no one does. But it's biblical. God does not save those who reject Christ,...he considers those people his enemy. Think about what God is going to do on Judgement Day when he unleashes his son Jesus on the unbelieving world around him,...the false prophet, the anti-christ, and all his people(unbelievers). Jesus even goes as far to say himself, "few will be saved". When he says "few" that means not the majority. Meaning, the majority will not be saved, but condemned, but the few will inherit eternal life, the narrow path. So as I said, all of those people who don't believe in Jesus who practiced the wrong religion, those people who just were happen to be born in a anti Christian country,...those people are going to hell if they die in unbelief according to the bible. Jesus even says you must be "born again" to inherit eternal life. That's excluding the majority of humanity who DONT believe in Jesus. Whatever your saying isn't based on anything biblical. Your just mistaken. Have you ignored the book of Revelations? How Jesus is going to return on the clouds with his angels and the unbelieving world will be tormented with plagues for unbelief and unrepentant sin? That's what's going to happen to unbelievers, they wont be saved. They will be tortured with plagues, and the bible even says "many will seek death and not find it". So there you have it. If you did read your bible correctly, you'll know all Christians will be saved, not the unfaithful who "fall away". It says those who BELIEVE will be saved. Emphasis placed on the BELIEVE part. So since this is the case, this places a heavy burden on our minds that need to be explained- what will happen to those who do not believe?

Well...they goto hell. That's the cut and dry response. It's bible though, not me! Sure, the people who don't believe in God or Jesus may have done good things,...they may even have "good" hearts and mean well. Biblically, it doesn't matter. The bible says if you don't believe in Jesus you goto hell. Jesus said "he who is not with me, is against me". He said that outright. As I said, Jesus doesn't represent anything close to peaceful loving Creator. He's more or less a softcore version of the Old Testament God who went around murdering countless people. The fact that the majority will goto hell sounds unfair, and cruel, but it's what the bible and Jesus says. God doesn't see everyone as his children. If you read the bible, Jesus says some people belong to God and some belong to the devil. Guess who belongs to the devil? The unbelieving world. All those starving African children who don't know Jesus and are practicing the religion on their parents,...yea-them too. Guess where they go! HEAVEN!! No! That's wishful thinking. They go somewhere unpleasant that most Christians will often find it hard to swallow. It's cruel. The unbelieving world goes to hell. Im sorry! Thats what the bible says REPEATEDLY. Debate me on it. Im not here to be rude,...just here to discuss and to open your eyes. Investigate it for yourself.

Once again the award for Most Twisted Theory Regarding the Bible goes tooooooooooo........

Urban Leg3nd!! Clap, clap, clap, clap............

OMG. Like always, your rants are amusing, but ultimately completely ignorant of two thousand years of Biblical Scholarship. Apparenly you believe that your own deductions are the ones that are correct and everyone else for 2000 years has been wrong. Nice.

Quote

The Judgment of the Dead

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³ The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.¹⁵ Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=NIV

The Judgement of the Dead. Everyone gets Judged. And it says, "The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.".

Does this mean everyone is saved that deserves to be saved? No, not automatically, but it does not say that these people all go to the fire either. It says those not written in the Book of Life go into the fire.

So, how does one get into the Book of Life?

Quote

 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=NIV

Under the described circumstances, I feel that anyone being Judged would clearly know what is going on, and could recognize Jesus as the Savior and thus, instantaneously be written into the Book of Life. If they were also forgiven. I can imagine many people who would not be forgiven, who perhaps committed horrible crimes. Also I can imagine those who refuse beyond all evidence to recognize Jesus as the Savior going to the Fire out of pure stubborn stupidity.

POINT IS THERE IS FORGIVENESS. Your opinion that everyone not a sinless Christian goes to Hell is complete rubbish. At Final Judgement everyone is judged by their Earthly actions and also by their name being in the Book of Life. So those who were "good" people can save themselves, by seeking forgiveness at Final Judgement.

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Wes4747 said:

Well.. There is the small possibility that the god that might interact with us is not the creator, nor omni anything-but perhaps really powerful in our universe...

Really unfair and power hungry...

Or... Maybe God is all there is and this god is purging itself of all undesirable qualities... Played out as you and I try to keep our soul relevant to this god refining itself?? That would make us hell goers deity defecations... Lol

Those are some interesting ideas. I made suppositions very similar myself. To a 1st Century desert agrarian, a properly equipped 20th century person may have seemed omniscient (internet), omnipotent (current military weapons), and omnipresent (cell phone/satellites/airplanes). Yet we'd recognize that person as being actually just a regular person. Same could apply to the Christian God, if you think about it. He is described as all powerful, but it didn't take much in 1st century to be all powerful. 

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

It is clearly beyond me how a God or deity can claim to love it's creation yet at the same time if they reject him for any reason,even out out of ignorance or error, send them to hell- a place of eternal torment for all eternity. "

And thus we know you are indeed a very limited human being. A half dozen people have told you over a dozen threads how this is possible, yet you refuse to learn, or perhaps comprehend, or perhaps choose instead to remain ignorant out of hatred and anger. 

[An Urban Leg3nd]

45 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Once again the award for Most Twisted Theory Regarding the Bible goes tooooooooooo........

Urban Leg3nd!! Clap, clap, clap, clap............

OMG. Like always, your rants are amusing, but ultimately completely ignorant of two thousand years of Biblical Scholarship. Apparenly you believe that your own deductions are the ones that are correct and everyone else for 2000 years has been wrong. Nice.

Twisted? Dude, what book are you reading? Everything you just posted below me just proved my point. You seem like the ignorant one who is oblivious to what the bible is clearly teaching. Read it. For instance,...

Quote

The Judgment of the Dead

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³ The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.¹⁵ Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Quote

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=NIV

The Judgement of the Dead. Everyone gets Judged. And it says, "The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.".

Does this mean everyone is saved that deserves to be saved? No, not automatically, but it does not say that these people all go to the fire either. It says those not written in the Book of Life go into the fire.

So, how does one get into the Book of Life?

 

If you read what you just pasted, you'll realize there is more than one book regarding judgment that is called into play here. It says "the books were open" and "another book was opened, which is the book of life". Then it clearly states after ALL OF THAT, -anyone who's name is not found in the Book of Life was thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE. Think about what that means. If your name isn't found in the "Book of Life" only, that book,...then you are casted into hell which is the lake of fire. So clearly yes, there are TONS, literally MILLIONS of people who will goto hell because their name will not be in the Book of Life. Why? Well, because of UNBELIEF. LACK OF FAITH.

 

51 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Quote

 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=NIV

Under the described circumstances, I feel that anyone being Judged would clearly know what is going on, and could recognize Jesus as the Savior and thus, instantaneously be written into the Book of Life. If they were also forgiven. I can imagine many people who would not be forgiven, who perhaps committed horrible crimes. Also I can imagine those who refuse beyond all evidence to recognize Jesus as the Savior going to the Fire out of pure stubborn stupidity.

POINT IS THERE IS FORGIVENESS. Your opinion that everyone not a sinless Christian goes to Hell is complete rubbish. At Final Judgement everyone is judged by their Earthly actions and also by their name being in the Book of Life. So those who were "good" people can save themselves, by seeking forgiveness at Final Judgement.

Finally, you prove my point again. Im not "ranting" either. Im more or less trying to school you on a book I've believed in half or most of my life before I turned Atheist. I never said you had to be a "sinless" Christian either. That's a straw-man you created. Now, how do we get into the "Book of life"? BELIEF. BELIEVING. Specifically, BELIEVING IN JESUS....AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR. Im only using caps to make sure you pay close attention to the words that I'm using so as there is no misunderstanding. How does someone get into Heaven or the Book of Life? BELIEVING. FAITH. BELIEVING IN JESUS. The bible states then, and only then after believing in Jesus, can one attain "forgiveness" or salvation. Without belief in Jesus there no forgiveness of sin. The bible is pretty straight-forward about how to get into heaven and "eternal life" and how to be condemned to eternal hell-fire. "For God gave, his only begotten son, that whosoever BELIEVES in him, shall have eternal life".

 

Quote

 

John 3:16King James Version (KJV)

¹⁶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

Now think about what the bible just said. Whoever BELIEVES in Jesus will have eternal life and be saved. So do you know what the opposite means? If you dont believe in Jesus....like millions of other people in this world who are by some chance practicing the wrong religion besides Christianity, those people, they goto HELL. The Lake of Fire. All those innocent people. People who just so happen to practice the wrong religion, even if it was on accident or out of ignorance. They goto hell. Their names will NOT be found in the "Book of Life". The only people's names who will be found in the book of life, is BELIEVERS. No one elses. Yes, the dead will be judged. Believers will also be judged, but believers are "justified" in God's eyes already. Meaning, they are looked upon as "innocent" because they believe in Jesus and have accepted him as Lord and have accepted his sacrifice. Now yes, the dead will be judged, ...it even goes as far to say the people who are already in hell, will be taken out of hell and brought before the throne of Christ and shown exactly why they are condemned when the books are opened. They will be condemned all over again. Literally. It says HADES will give up the dead. Hades is hell. Hell will give up it's dead people who are already burning, and they will momentarily appear before the throne of Christ on Judgement Day and be judged face to face, one on one, and read their works and why they are condemned. Dude, don't tell me that my line of thinking is twisted. It's not my line of thinking that's twisted at all, it's the bible that is twisted. It's what YOUR BIBLE says. Read it. King James Version and others. Im not making this up. Nor am I ranting like an angry human being. Im just trying to open an apparently blind person's eyes to what's clearly in front of them. From what I see, you and others, clearly dont know the bible too well at all.

Alot of you here apparently don't know the bible too well yet you claim to though. You claim to know the bible. You claim to know what it says and what it's talking about, but when we investigate very simply by going to scripture itself, it proves you guys are wrong and don't know what your talking about. That's all I've found out from discussing with you guys. I'm literally "educating" you guys if you will everytime I speak. Im telling you things any novice Christian would know if they read the bible. I'm also not "cherry picking" the things I like aside from the things I don't like. I'm giving you, the bible, cut and dry. And you know what DieChecker? You don't like what it says nor what the consequences of disbelief implies because of the sheer mass of loss of humanity in the end. Yes. Millions will burn in hell according to the bible. Billions even. Millions of people in this world, don't believe in Jesus. Ok? Check. There are more nonbelievers in this world than believers. There are millions upon millions of souls, who do not, believe in Jesus, and outright either reject him or are practicing a religion they were born into. Most will grow up, grow old, if they are lucky, and probably will never believe in Jesus because it simply was never what they were brought up and taught. Like little African children who believe in the many gods of Africa. The little Hindu children who are gonna grow up and believe in the many Hindu gods of India. THOSE are the people, that Im talking about. They all goto hell according to Jesus, and the bible. Why do millions of these people goto hell and not find their name in the Book of Life? BECAUSE THEY DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS. That's it dude. It's cruel. It's a screwed up story-line, but it's what your bible says. Read it. Im not angry, nor am I ranting, but many of you on this message-board have a understanding problem and don't know the things that they claim to know. That all Im saying. I don't mean to come off as angry. Im not. Im calm as hell literally. But read what Im telling you. Investigate what Im saying. Your wrong. Unbelief in Jesus condemns people. The bible says it. People goto hell for not having faith in Jesus. People goto hell for believing in Hindu gods, and having other god before Jesus.

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He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. -John 3:18

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Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.-Matthew 7:14

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Then Jesus traveled throughout the towns and villages, teaching as He made His way toward Jerusalem. 23“Lord, someone asked Him, “will only a few” people be saved? Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.… -Luke 13:23

 

I think I proved my point. I've got more scriptures if you think I'm making this up.

[Habitat]

Edited September 28, 2016 by Habitat

[psyche101]

Many people are going to read the Bible many ways. Allegory seems to be the popular rising notion. Personally, whilst I see why people are doing this, I can't believe the Bible was ever intended that way, not only for the fact it has been considered historical record by so long by so many, it contradicts that notion itself, one  instance is the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus about being born again. Nicodemus seems quite confused and asks Jesus to please explain, so he does literally about the spirit. Jesus also says "truly truly" a lot, like he is trying to get people to believe him. 

As such, some people believe in hell, some do not, and both preach they are right, so it is easy to get confused on these contradictions in religion. 

Truly Truly!!

Edited September 28, 2016 by psyche101

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, Wes4747 said:

Well.. There is the small possibility that the god that might interact with us is not the creator, nor omni anything-but perhaps really powerful in our universe...

Really unfair and power hungry...

Or... Maybe God is all there is and this god is purging itself of all undesirable qualities... Played out as you and I try to keep our soul relevant to this god refining itself?? That would make us hell goers deity defecations... Lol

 

or maybe God is everything and the physical Universe is the body of God . 

 

Maybe ... even ....  God can be a concept for whatever we want it to be ? 

[An Urban Leg3nd]

Truly truly, I tell you, lest a man be born again, he shall not see the kingdom of heaven. Well Jesus, BILLIONS OF PEOPLE aren't "born again" and will probably die practicing their family's tradition and wont be seeing your kingdom. Billions.

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

Truly truly, I tell you, lest a man be born again, he shall not see the kingdom of heaven. Well Jesus, BILLIONS OF PEOPLE aren't "born again" and will probably die practicing their family's tradition and wont be seeing your kingdom. Billions.

So what is there to complain about ? You preferred "the world", you had the worldly "experience" you wanted ?

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Those are some interesting ideas. I made suppositions very similar myself. To a 1st Century desert agrarian, a properly equipped 20th century person may have seemed omniscient (internet), omnipotent (current military weapons), and omnipresent (cell phone/satellites/airplanes). Yet we'd recognize that person as being actually just a regular person. Same could apply to the Christian God, if you think about it. He is described as all powerful, but it didn't take much in 1st century to be all powerful. 

Or  BC... whenever Abraham was supposed to be around , or Moses , etc . 

For some reason, I had a flashback reading the above quote to this :

Background; I have an inside fireplace and lots of windows in my cabin; out side is a lot of vegetation, trees and some bushes .  I have long windows that angle open , vertically ( to catch the passing easterly sea breeze  and run it through the cabin in summer ) .  One day, rainy wet and cold,  the fire is burning,  a window is open. I look out and there is a burning shrub outside , wtf! how did that happen ! The whole thing is engulfed in flames .... but ,  it isnt burning ! 

And its raining !  What the hell !  Then I laughed ... ' the burning bush ' !     I watched, it just kept doing it.  What is going on ? I put my book down and got up to go look closer and the fire disappeared .   It was a reflection in the window from inside, inside being mostly darker, the bright  fire flames were the only thing that was being reflected in the window, and my seat and the  open window angle just happened to match .  

Not that this means anything , but it did give me a  ' Hmmmmmmm ..... ' .  

[An Urban Leg3nd]

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

So what is there to complain about ? You preferred "the world", you had the worldly "experience" you wanted ?

What's there to complain about? Billions of genuine human beings who are gonna goto hell for practicing the wrong religion. The bible says the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they wont believe in Jesus or the Gospel. That means,...billions of not entirely evil people, are going to burn in hell and suffer for all eternity. Yet God is good? That seems like one of the most evil ideas ever thought up. Every none Christian isn't evil God. Just by reasoning alone he might know that....

Edited September 28, 2016 by An Urban Leg3nd