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danielost

god doesn't want your belief

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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 7 September 2016 at 7:31 AM, MWoo7 said:

Oh have to watch my language whole pc jargon to think about I guess .... hmmm, Okay I'll go over this and edit out any of well my nicknames for various things ...... no I'm not saying god had a spaceship jerkyboys, just thought to put these two bits in here regarding

Seems like lots of native cultures mention a ship/craft or in the very least, from the stars,
no shortage in the vedas or ? I can't remember the latest
I went over, ? kighra gad buga vad ghuta ? oh this is close, bugavad GITA ! whew, well htat's at least close. No overall view, just some kind thoughts, nice as it can be put.
A whirlwind of this preist that priest this god that god
, just complex and convolution to the ultimate extreme,
as one put it, an absolute see-saw of attempted logic. Certainly is
no shortage of info out there, HA! no shortage of pros and cons on them either !
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hindu2/2016/03/vedas-the-4-vedas-in-hindi-english-telugu-pdf-download/

image.jpeg

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Trichakra
On 22/7/2016 at 8:21 PM, Hammerclaw said:

God loves idiots--he made so many of them.

God loves genius too. He made so many of them.

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freetoroam
On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 3:45 AM, danielost said:

god doesn't want your belief, he wants your love.  all life wants love.  even plants live better with love.  isn't that all you want.  that's all I want.

We all want love and a peaceful world, but some humans also love power and greed....this changes everything.

we also have another thing to live with -  how could a god possibly want your love when inflicting so much pain when the forces of nature comes with its tsunamis, earthquakes and the rest?

Humans have the capability to love, to respect and they can also feel pain, be very cruel and have thier beliefs questioned when their loved ones are taken away from them.

ofcourse we want love....but real life is more complicated than that.

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DieChecker
On 9/9/2016 at 1:57 AM, Lord Fedorable said:

image.jpeg

Don't argue with the Hologram.

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danielost
8 hours ago, freetoroam said:

We all want love and a peaceful world, but some humans also love power and greed....this changes everything.

we also have another thing to live with -  how could a god possibly want your love when inflicting so much pain when the forces of nature comes with its tsunamis, earthquakes and the rest?

Humans have the capability to love, to respect and they can also feel pain, be very cruel and have thier beliefs questioned when their loved ones are taken away from them.

ofcourse we want love....but real life is more complicated than that.

we need to love one another despite the problems.

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Wes4747
4 minutes ago, danielost said:

we need to love one another despite the problems.

That right there is solid gold! Despite problems, beliefs, lifestyles or status.

Acceptance would be a good start, then maybe a majority of the world could unite for a worthy purpose, possibly eliminating the need for tyrant governments altogether a making way for a true utopian society. Starts with the self, however the remaining evil doers in the world wouldn't go easily or quickly.. Probably put up a heck of a fight

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freetoroam
2 hours ago, danielost said:

we need to love one another despite the problems.

I love those who deserve it, but the likes of war lords who take away your loved ones and greedy power hungry people who affect lives by causing hardship = get nish! 

In a perfect world love would be easy, but we do not live in a perfect world, love comes in different ways and for different reasons. 

Saying we need to love one another is nice, but not always possible. 

Turning the other cheek is not easy for all to do, especially when there are some who will be happen to crucify you even when you show them love.

 

PS: I love my husband, mother, son and my two dogs, who love me unconditionally, as I do too them.

Edited by freetoroam

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danielost
On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:27 PM, freetoroam said:

I love those who deserve it, but the likes of war lords who take away your loved ones and greedy power hungry people who affect lives by causing hardship = get nish! 

In a perfect world love would be easy, but we do not live in a perfect world, love comes in different ways and for different reasons. 

Saying we need to love one another is nice, but not always possible. 

Turning the other cheek is not easy for all to do, especially when there are some who will be happen to crucify you even when you show them love.

 

PS: I love my husband, mother, son and my two dogs, who love me unconditionally, as I do too them.

no one said love was easy.  but if we love one another our problems would go away.

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freetoroam
51 minutes ago, danielost said:

no one said love was easy.  but if we love one another our problems would go away.

IF = now there`s a word.

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Trichakra
On 21/7/2016 at 6:20 PM, danielost said:

 

  don't you want your children to love you.

But god does not want any thing from you.

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Mr Walker
On 22/07/2016 at 0:50 AM, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Well, he's going to get neither my belief, nor my love.  He shouldn't have to ask for either, it should be given freely because he's earned it.  Just like everything thing else in the universe.

So you live in a world where you neither give nor receive unless something is earned? You never give or receive free gifts?  If someone has to earn something, then it cannot be freely given.  What did you do to deserve your life ? Mine was a free gift from my parents, as was all my education, upbringing, care and love as a child. 

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Mr Walker
On 22/07/2016 at 9:27 AM, Blizno said:

How can I love something that there's no reason to think exists?

I love xena.

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Mr Walker
On 02/09/2016 at 6:13 AM, XenoFish said:

If god produced results I'd talk to 'him'. Why should I believe in something that is rather useless?

lol. The classic response to this is that, If you believed then of course god WOULD  produce results for you.  Catch 22

If god did something for you every day, on request or at his own initiative,  then you would not have a belief in him but a knowldge of his existence.

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MWoo7
14 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

receive free gifts?  If someone has to earn something, then it cannot be freely given.  What did you do to deserve your life ? Mine was a free gift from my parents, as was all my education, upbringing, care and love as a child.

oops, then they had to deal with it. Love care ya ya ya lucky they were

Edited by MWoo7

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MWoo7

Here here USELESS ! to the n'th degree, when you're in Banff and the grizzly is about to eat you from the middle out ... eh its a good thing somebody was around with some massive , and some amazing fire power,(does it have to be spelled out?) no not created by some entity or walking through walls or a god but man.


I think some have wandered around it the city too long, get out there and experience the wilderness, you know you should talk to that kid that takes like multiple week long hikes ? forget his name , survival some crap probably has his own HBO special by now, the real deal no he hasn't run across para junk that's why he's the real deal and a maga super star on the cable channels anyway he'd head out without guns without spears with nothing but a couple camerars AMAZING nobody would do that in Canada! states no prob, most men will not even, well -- NEVER do that with no firepower these days, bunch of WHOOPS avoiding etc. whew taht was  a close one !

Edited by MWoo7

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Mr Walker
On 03/09/2016 at 8:25 AM, Podo said:

My parents deserve nothing from me. My father is fine, but my mother is a rotten wench. I loathe her because she was abusive to me. That you love your father despite abuse is troubling

Not really. We choose our feelings, and it can be healthy to choose love in all things. Some people forgive, and even love, those who hurt them or even kill someone they love.  Love is healing, healthy, and better for us psychologically and physiologically, than hate, anger, revenge guilt fear etc.  For example your loathing of your mother is your choice. it does nothing to harm her or improve your life  yet you have chosen it as your response to her  

Choosing to love her, despite her nature and actions would do nothing to her, but might help you.

 Not telling you how you should feel, so much as explaining that Daniel's response is not only normal but healthy. I've had loved ones suicide because they couldn't get over abuse, or abandonment ,by their mother  If they could only have come to love themselves enough to also love their mother they  would still be alive and happy. 

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Mr Walker
On 03/09/2016 at 8:59 AM, An Urban Leg3nd said:

Wrong. His death only removed the threat of hell fire for those who "believe" in him. The rest of humanity goes to hell for practicing the wrong religion, even if it was out of ignorance. That's something only someone who cruel and heartless would think up.

No. In biblical based theologies, Christ's sacrifice saved all humans; past, present and future, from the original sin. It washed away that sin and garbed all humans in a new rainment .

How we live our lives determines our treatment over our personal sins  A good person who has never heard of christ will be saved in biblical theologies because of chris'ts sacrifice.  There is a difference for those who are informed enough to make a choice. No one can be  saved by anything they refuse to accept exists, and so,  to consciously accept Christ's salvation, we must believe that salvation is possible. We are free to say, "No, thank you very much" .

Atheists animists and Zoroastrians will enter heaven, while many Christians will not,  based on god's judgement of their hearts.  Now, if you believe god does not have the right to judge your heart, mind, and deeds,  then you will find this unjust, and Christianity will be unappealing.  

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Mr Walker
On 06/09/2016 at 1:32 AM, ChaosRose said:

Not really. According to the story of Abraham and Isaac, he wants people to love him above all...even our own children. He wants you to be so devoted to him that you would slit your own child's throat on his command, without question.

Biblically he asked for this sacrifice, but did not  accept it. Many scholars argue that Abraham already knew god well enough to realise this was a test of faith.  

its true that it is hard for a human to fathom the depth of faith needed to accept gods power and authority so strongly that one would do anything for him.

However realistically  this trust and loyalty is built on prior knowldge and experience of what god asks for and provides

 I would do anything god asked me to, because he has proven his nature, power, mercy and kindness /love to me many times over fifty years and so i know that, whatever is asked will do no harm, and will be constructive and necessary.  So if god told me to kill my wife i would know it was not god speaking,  thus while i would do anything god told me to, his requests would determine how i knew it was god doing the asking. 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
On 06/09/2016 at 1:49 AM, ChaosRose said:

This is why I think that if there is an actual god, our religious texts haven't communicated it, accurately. The thing that has the best chance of being divinely inspired would be the golden rule, and that does come through in most faiths. All the rest just sounds way too human. A huge ego trip, a bunch of tribal rules, and tribes thinking they could be as ruthless as they wanted to because God was on their side. 

It's also interesting that many religious people talk of idolatry, and they idolize a book that men wrote. I mean...we actually know men wrote it. That bit is not disputed. 

Technically maybe but also, technically, it is the living word of god for many christians Ie divinely inspired and unable to be altered or adapted.

I am more with you here. The bible is a collection of stories including a lot of allegory and morality tales told by men (and a few women) They quite possibly had real divine revelations from god and heard the words of god, but no man can understand anything except through the limits of their own knowledge and understanding.

So something heard by a man 2000-4000 years ago, would be heard very differently by a man or woman today. 

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Mr Walker
On 07/09/2016 at 5:12 AM, Podo said:

What does this have to do with a deity?

Maybe nothing. Maybe everything. It depends what the poster actually saw, and on what they believe they saw, or how they interpreted it.. 

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back to earth

 

 

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MWoo7

That _ is real you know back to earth. Shouldn't make fun of the crab people.

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MWoo7

Next will be ghosts talking through walls.  Oh its real ! .... just look on the INTERNET !

 

The reason that you can't walk through walls is due to the electromagnetic force between the atoms that form you. It seems that on some instances a conscious being may be so much in another dimension that these forces are not powerful enough to prevent the penetration of this being through solid objects.

...Source/uri/url/Resource Link:

https://www.quora.com/How-can-ghosts-walk-through-walls

 

See, its real for sure.

 

People are simply amazing.

 

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An Urban Leg3nd
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No. In biblical based theologies, Christ's sacrifice saved all humans; past, present and future, from the original sin. It washed away that sin and garbed all humans in a new rainment .

How we live our lives determines our treatment over our personal sins  A good person who has never heard of christ will be saved in biblical theologies because of chris'ts sacrifice.  There is a difference for those who are informed enough to make a choice. No one can be  saved by anything they refuse to accept exists, and so,  to consciously accept Christ's salvation, we must believe that salvation is possible. We are free to say, "No, thank you very much" .

Atheists animists and Zoroastrians will enter heaven, while many Christians will not,  based on god's judgement of their hearts.  Now, if you believe god does not have the right to judge your heart, mind, and deeds,  then you will find this unjust, and Christianity will be unappealing.  

Your entirely incorrect. Your statements aren't even remotely based on biblical teaching, or a bible anywhere. The bible, Christ, and his followers, all stress the point of "having faith" to be saved, otherwise you'd be condemned and burn in hell. You don't like the sound of that, no one does. But it's biblical. God does not save those who reject Christ,...he considers those people his enemy. Think about what God is going to do on Judgement Day when he unleashes his son Jesus on the unbelieving world around him,...the false prophet, the anti-christ, and all his people(unbelievers). Jesus even goes as far to say himself, "few will be saved". When he says "few" that means not the majority. Meaning, the majority will not be saved, but condemned, but the few will inherit eternal life, the narrow path. So as I said, all of those people who don't believe in Jesus who practiced the wrong religion, those people who just were happen to be born in a anti Christian country,...those people are going to hell if they die in unbelief according to the bible. Jesus even says you must be "born again" to inherit eternal life. That's excluding the majority of humanity who DONT believe in Jesus. Whatever your saying isn't based on anything biblical. Your just mistaken. Have you ignored the book of Revelations? How Jesus is going to return on the clouds with his angels and the unbelieving world will be tormented with plagues for unbelief and unrepentant sin? That's what's going to happen to unbelievers, they wont be saved. They will be tortured with plagues, and the bible even says "many will seek death and not find it". So there you have it. If you did read your bible correctly, you'll know all Christians will be saved, not the unfaithful who "fall away". It says those who BELIEVE will be saved. Emphasis placed on the BELIEVE part. So since this is the case, this places a heavy burden on our minds that need to be explained- what will happen to those who do not believe?

Well...they goto hell. That's the cut and dry response. It's bible though, not me! Sure, the people who don't believe in God or Jesus may have done good things,...they may even have "good" hearts and mean well. Biblically, it doesn't matter. The bible says if you don't believe in Jesus you goto hell. Jesus said "he who is not with me, is against me". He said that outright. As I said, Jesus doesn't represent anything close to peaceful loving Creator. He's more or less a softcore version of the Old Testament God who went around murdering countless people. The fact that the majority will goto hell sounds unfair, and cruel, but it's what the bible and Jesus says. God doesn't see everyone as his children. If you read the bible, Jesus says some people belong to God and some belong to the devil. Guess who belongs to the devil? The unbelieving world. All those starving African children who don't know Jesus and are practicing the religion on their parents,...yea-them too. Guess where they go! HEAVEN!! No! That's wishful thinking. They go somewhere unpleasant that most Christians will often find it hard to swallow. It's cruel. The unbelieving world goes to hell. Im sorry! Thats what the bible says REPEATEDLY. Debate me on it. Im not here to be rude,...just here to discuss and to open your eyes. Investigate it for yourself.

Edited by An Urban Leg3nd
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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

Your entirely incorrect. Your statements aren't even remotely based on biblical teaching, or a bible anywhere. The bible, Christ, and his followers, all stress the point of "having faith" to be saved, otherwise you'd be condemned and burn in hell. You don't like the sound of that, no one does. But it's biblical. God does not save those who reject Christ,...he considers those people his enemy. Think about what God is going to do on Judgement Day when he unleashes his son Jesus on the unbelieving world around him,...the false prophet, the anti-christ, and all his people(unbelievers). Jesus even goes as far to say himself, "few will be saved". When he says "few" that means not the majority. Meaning, the majority will not be saved, but condemned, but the few will inherit eternal life, the narrow path. So as I said, all of those people who don't believe in Jesus who practiced the wrong religion, those people who just were happen to be born in a anti Christian country,...those people are going to hell if they die in unbelief according to the bible. Jesus even says you must be "born again" to inherit eternal life. That's excluding the majority of humanity who DONT believe in Jesus. Whatever your saying isn't based on anything biblical. Your just mistaken. Have you ignored the book of Revelations? How Jesus is going to return on the clouds with his angels and the unbelieving world will be tormented with plagues for unbelief and unrepentant sin? That's what's going to happen to unbelievers, they wont be saved. They will be tortured with plagues, and the bible even says "many will seek death and not find it". So there you have it. If you did read your bible correctly, you'll know all Christians will be saved, not the unfaithful who "fall away". It says those who BELIEVE will be saved. Emphasis placed on the BELIEVE part. So since this is the case, this places a heavy burden on our minds that need to be explained- what will happen to those who do not believe?

Well...they goto hell. That's the cut and dry response. It's bible though, not me! Sure, the people who don't believe in God or Jesus may have done good things,...they may even have "good" hearts and mean well. Biblically, it doesn't matter. The bible says if you don't believe in Jesus you goto hell. Jesus said "he who is not with me, is against me". He said that outright. As I said, Jesus doesn't represent anything close to peaceful loving Creator. He's more or less a softcore version of the Old Testament God who went around murdering countless people. The fact that the majority will goto hell sounds unfair, and cruel, but it's what the bible and Jesus says. God doesn't see everyone as his children. If you read the bible, Jesus says some people belong to God and some belong to the devil. Guess who belongs to the devil? The unbelieving world. All those starving African children who don't know Jesus and are practicing the religion on their parents,...yea-them too. Guess where they go! HEAVEN!! No! That's wishful thinking. They go somewhere unpleasant that most Christians will often find it hard to swallow. It's cruel. The unbelieving world goes to hell. Im sorry! Thats what the bible says REPEATEDLY. Debate me on it. Im not here to be rude,...just here to discuss and to open your eyes. Investigate it for yourself.

I will place my 40 years of bible study and raise you experience with 4 major christian faiths  (studying with them)  and half a dozen minor ones  This is one of the critical errors made by some Christians and turns some people away fromm god First ALL humans were saved by christs sacrifice from the original sin of adam and eve.  That is indisputably biblical theology.

But then individuals also chose to sin or not sin.  If we ask forgiveness make restitution and promise to try and  sin no more we may also be saved  from our own individual sins    Belief in itself is not enough  and nor is faith. Works are NOT required for salvation but any man who truly believes will be transformed into a new man and thus his works will alter . A promise, even of the heart, offers no evidence to god of a true repentance. 

I  AGREED with you that a deliberate rejection of salvation damns one in christian theology, basically because faith based salvation requires belief and faith, and you cant be saved by an entity you dont believe in. SO, reject christs offer and your own sins mAY go unpardoned. But god has the final say and is both just and merciful  Do you honestly believe that all those humans for millenia who preexisted christ cannot be saved or all those who never heard of him> In vivlical theology you are only lost if you CHHOSE to be lost

The reason few will be saved, despite all being saved from original sin, is that relatively few will make the effort to seek and accept salvation under the conditions required. Few will genuinely repent, even fewer will try to make restitution, and fewer still will try real hard not o sin any more. We are ALL already saved . All we have to do is accept that salvation.  If few will be saved it will be because few will accept the terms required.  some exclusionist churches try to set conditions on gods love and mercy  but that is not biblica;l it is unconditional as long as we can accept it and change ourselves.

In the bible there is no hell as portrayed in Catholicism Bible texts make it totally clear that, when we die our body goes into the ground and our soul goes to sleep. We are awakened on one of two Resurrection days (for the saved and the lost ) The lost are then burned for ever and destroyed bod yand soul while the saved spend some time in heaven before being restored to the new earth  It sounds like you had a solid grounding in Catholicism or one of the churches which uses fear to try and get you to be good The reformation showed us the weakness/incorrectness of catholic theology when compared to the bible but unfortunately some protestant churches also followed their lead 

Biblically people either get eternal life or they die We get a fair and just judgement according to biblical theology and can even check the books of judgement to see why god judges as he does. Those who live are those who have shown they are safe to be given immortality and can regulate their behaviours  If you have shown an inability to do this, how can you be let into a paradise where there will be no hate no death, no decay, no fear, no anger etc.   It would just be eden all over again. 

How much time have you actually spent studying the bible, and with whom. Or are you just taking the word of some book or someone else's opinion on it? 

Do you just believe people who preach hate, inequality, division,  and an exclusionist approach to god.? The new earth is for ALL humans. potentially ANYONE could get there. Those who never heard of christ will be there If their hearts and minds are right with god.    I dont argue with people who want to spread Christianity, because it is a good religion,  but  people from islam ,jews buddhists etc will ALL  get to the new earth. so spreading the gospel isnt necessary to save people. Some do believe christ wont return until all mankind has heard the gospel, of course.

  this is the covenant god made with ALL humanity.  In a sense, knowing of Christ makes it harder in christian theology,  because THEN we have to fulfil the requirements of christ to get to the new earth. But they are not that hard  Try to be good, treat others as yourself,   repent any sins, make restitution to anyone sinned against, and do your hones t best NOT to sin in body or mind. 

 

But you are right; how can anyone imagine being saved by a power entity or force which the y do not even believe exists and whose authority they reject?. . So belief is necessary once one hears of the choices.. 

Ignorance of god and christ damn no one, but rejection of them does, because WE make that choice and are thus responsible for it.. 

it is why bionically, all children get a free pass to the new earth. They were saved, by Christs sacrifice, from original sin, and cannot sin, as children know no better and  individual sin requires deliberate choices.. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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