god doesn't want your belief

[MWoo7]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Perfect Perfect Perfect Puuuuuurfect! as a cat god would say : D

[An Urban Leg3nd]

What does God have to do in order to convince a believer that he himself is evi? Murder countless men women and innocent children? Check. Already done. "Oh but God's not evil, he had a reason doing it, all those people were evil". Acting on a curse, God sends 2 bears to maul 42 children because they made fun of one of God's prophets and called him "baldy". God killed all of the firstborns of Egypt. With all that being said, believers, what would God have to do in your eyes in order for you to change sides and say "that's evil, alright Im not worshiping someone like that"? Im just wondering, because you theist seem to have limitless boundaries when it comes to what you consider acceptable behavior from God. There is a difference between loving or good behavior and evil behavior. Apparently, God's engaged in a little a both. So why is he also not evil? I know your objection. But God does good too , so he cant be completely evil. One could also say God does evil too, so he's not completely good either. The fact that God does one or the other does not disqualify him from being either of the two. But here lies the problem,...let's say God is good. God is benevolent. All loving. All of that,..at the beginning, from the start. Now, at time progresses on God creates humans, and watches their activity and then begins to get angry at them and because of thus he starts to directly intervene in their affairs. God starts inciting wars, killing large groups of people(men, women, and children). God starts putting curses and plagues on people.  Now, we know murder is bad. We know doing evil things that intentionally causes harm to people is also evil, ...well people God engages in doing some evil for quite some time throughout the bible. So at one points God may have been good...BECAUSE he did no evil. But after humanities birth, God starts doing evil things to people. I am now posing the question,....why is God not evil again???? When God does not do evil things then you could say God is good, ..but when GOd clearly does "evil" things that cause pain and suffering to others, how can we not consider him evil? I thought a good being never does evil and an evil being never does good. God does evil.

[Trichakra]

On 21/7/2016 at 6:20 PM, danielost said:

 

  don't you want your children to love you.

But you can't force your children to love you.

[+DieChecker]

4 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

 I thought a good being never does evil and an evil being never does good. God does evil.

Where did you get the idea that good can't do evil, and evil can't do good.

Satan does good all the time. He even heals people and grants their fondest wishes. It simply is part of a bigger plot of evil in every case however. And God can do evil, yet have a greater good come out of it.

[jmccr8]

4 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

What does God have to do in order to convince a believer that he himself is evi? Murder countless men women and innocent children? Check. Already done. "Oh but God's not evil, he had a reason doing it, all those people were evil". Acting on a curse, God sends 2 bears to maul 42 children because they made fun of one of God's prophets and called him "baldy". God killed all of the firstborns of Egypt. With all that being said, believers, what would God have to do in your eyes in order for you to change sides and say "that's evil, alright Im not worshiping someone like that"? Im just wondering, because you theist seem to have limitless boundaries when it comes to what you consider acceptable behavior from God. There is a difference between loving or good behavior and evil behavior. Apparently, God's engaged in a little a both. So why is he also not evil? I know your objection. But God does good too , so he cant be completely evil. One could also say God does evil too, so he's not completely good either. The fact that God does one or the other does not disqualify him from being either of the two. But here lies the problem,...let's say God is good. God is benevolent. All loving. All of that,..at the beginning, from the start. Now, at time progresses on God creates humans, and watches their activity and then begins to get angry at them and because of thus he starts to directly intervene in their affairs. God starts inciting wars, killing large groups of people(men, women, and children). God starts putting curses and plagues on people.  Now, we know murder is bad. We know doing evil things that intentionally causes harm to people is also evil, ...well people God engages in doing some evil for quite some time throughout the bible. So at one points God may have been good...BECAUSE he did no evil. But after humanities birth, God starts doing evil things to people. I am now posing the question,....why is God not evil again???? When God does not do evil things then you could say God is good, ..but when GOd clearly does "evil" things that cause pain and suffering to others, how can we not consider him evil? I thought a good being never does evil and an evil being never does good. God does evil.

I guess god is a pretty handy scapegoat, maybe you should just man up and accept your inequities.

jmccr8

[back to earth]

On 29/09/2016 at 3:18 AM, Habitat said:

My cat believes God is whoever provides the food.

Im not sure abut that .     The food is like worship and offerings .   I mean , do we really need this 

Yo the bunny Bro 

[back to earth]

8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

sure , you go  'back to earth'     it all gets recycled, even the planet , the Sun  ...  

 

even Uncle Bill says that ;  When I die , I go back to earth. "

 

 

 

He knew !

[FTWind]

18 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Though what if all the randomness is trying to reach a goal. If god dosent exist now that dosent mean he won't in the future. I believe intelligence is the key to becoming god. I also think intelligence dictates the passage of time. So a more intelligent being would see time at bigger intervals. Meaning being able to see the past present and future.

Edited September 29, 2016 by FTWind

[XenoFish]

[psyche101]

44 minutes ago, FTWind said:

Though what if all the randomness is trying to reach a goal. If god dosent exist now that dosent mean he won't in the future.

It does because the god people are talking about is a creator, you seem to be creating a paradox if anything. 

44 minutes ago, FTWind said:

I believe intelligence is the key to becoming god.

No, that is an "Advanced Being" by definition a God is supernatural, and as such sits outside of space and time otherwise we could find definitive proof.

44 minutes ago, FTWind said:

I also think intelligence dictates the passage of time. So a more intelligent being would see time at bigger intervals. Meaning being able to see the past present and future.

That is the paradox, you cannot create yourself, interesting concept and explored quite interestingly in the movie Predestination, a great Sci Fi flick, but we do have observations and data that lead to other conclusions which are bolstered by prediction - what of them? 

[psyche101]

10 hours ago, back to earth said:

sure , you go  'back to earth'     it all gets recycled, even the planet , the Sun  ...  

 

even Uncle Bill says that ;  When I die , I go back to earth. "

 

 

 

He knew !

 

 

William Buckley had them second guessing though!  

[An Urban Leg3nd]

15 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Where did you get the idea that good can't do evil, and evil can't do good.

Satan does good all the time. He even heals people and grants their fondest wishes. It simply is part of a bigger plot of evil in every case however. And God can do evil, yet have a greater good come out of it.

No, we're not talking about human beings. We're talking about a being that is suppose to be "perfect" and "benevolent" by all means of the word. Your no better than a lost man if you think Satan goes around doing "good" things for people he supposedly hates and wants to see burn in hell. If the devil is evil, he's not giving up no ground. Trust me. Satan cant do good if he's truly evil. It's like Jesus said, Satan cant cast out Satan. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Im not sure if you even follow what Im saying. Think about this, we're talking about "God" a being who is said to be "all love" or "love itself" and benevolent,....in the bible, he goes around doing evil things. How can a being that is love itself, go around inciting wars, command his followers to murder other people by the thousands, and even goes around himself killing men, women, and innocent children among many things? Think about it. God can't be love or benevolent if he goes around doing the same exact things his enemy Satan is said to be doing. Its contradictory, my friend. You can't have a god that's all loving, yet all throughout the bible he is said to hate people and even claim vengeance and bloody murder against his enemies who don't fear and believe in him. You know that makes no sense. That's almost like saying Adolf Hitler was a good man, he just murdered millions of people because of a greater purpose he had for his country. No, because he murdered people and did those very evil things to human beings, that is what makes him a pure evil man. Hitler isn't good, he's evil. God isn't good either, he's evil. Many of you believers go around thinking good things about a being who is obviously evil. God does evil things,...really evil things. He murders thousands, he commands others to murder thousands, and he does so in such a large number Adolf Hitler couldn't compete with him. YET...his believers think he is loving or benevolent. You people must be severely deluded or nuts. One of the other. I'm sorry. You must hold a bias because your believers. You'll continue to find excuses to support your belief instead of looking at it critically to make sure it's something morally true and correct to believe in.   

[Habitat]

Legend, from my perspective you sound like someone who has read a book that was presented to you as factual, but after reading it you've decided it is actually a work of fiction. Unfortunately, you are now expressing dissatisfaction with characters in the plot. I think you could only blame the author for that, not the character(s) drawn in the book.

[An Urban Leg3nd]

13 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Legend, from my perspective you sound like someone who has read a book that was presented to you as factual, but after reading it you've decided it is actually a work of fiction. Unfortunately, you are now expressing dissatisfaction with characters in the plot. I think you could only blame the author for that, not the character(s) drawn in the book.

Well dude, the thing is this...most people I know where raised on Christianity before turning atheist. I came up believing in that mess man. I always heard adults talking about someone named "God" and I never knew who he was or what he was. I went to an all Catholic school my entire life though, so I went through the morning prayers, the Friday morning church services. I been there done that. To me, because of my age, I was just going through the motions and doing what I was told. I was indoctrinated and so was many of my other classmates. We didn't really want to go church, and none of them did either. We all hated church. It was boring but we were all forced to go and worship,pray, and even sing, and none of us even wanted to. We just wanted to goto recess time and play, do our homework and go home. That's how it was back then. But as I grew up, I began to question exactly what the hell I was believing in and actually praying too. And that's when atheism was on the rise. I actually opened the bible and read it and started questioning God's existence, big time. And the more I questioned, the more I was pushed away from God because of the moral problems the entire idea presented. The things that were said in the bible I read, I took at face value and said hey, if it says it right here, thats what it means. Sure, I went back and researched that maybe they may be alternate meanings, but there was nothing but Christian apologetics which just sought to defend the obvious morally corrupt teaching and dubcharies. They just tried to defend why a supposed loving god or Creator did so many evil, vile, rotten things to human beings which he himself professed to love before he made them. It all didn't make any sense, unless God was evil instead of good. Now it makes sense why God murdered all those thousands of people. Now it makes sense why he even killed children. You know? Now it makes sense why he told his followers to kill an entire city and take all the female children or daughters as your spoil. Because it's evil. That's all it is. I don't defend something that is clearly evil or something that is morally corrupt-like the bible. Ever since I started reading that book since day one, it's been pure hell man. It's a cursed book for God sake. It has so much evil in it, my god! That's all I can say. But people gloss over many evil things God did in the bible and focus instead on the one part where Jesus says "love your neighbor" and "love thy fellow man". They totally ignore the rest the bible where it says Jesus will return and literally slaughter the entire unsaved world who disbelieves in him. They ignore that. They ignore that fact that it says he'll torture them with plagues of all kinds then finally at the end sentence the unbelievers who reject him and dont believe in him TO HELL and the Lake of Fire. It's incredible stuff the bible says, really.

It's so incredible, I think if the average human being read it, without being influenced by any bias believer to "interpret" it to them, they'll disbelieve in the bible and become an atheist. Entirely. And atheism would be perfectly justified considering the many genocides God performs in the bible, ...yet he loves us. That's all I'm saying. So, yes I have gripe against God and Jesus. I hate both,...I dont believe in both. I personally have a testimony of how that religion Christianity ruined a great portion of my life by me practicing it. Thats another story. But that's all I'll say. I actually wish there we're more atheist converts than Christian, because what's in the bible will contribute to the demise of humanity or all rational thinking all together.

[Habitat]

2 minutes ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

 

It's so incredible, I think if the average human being read it, without being influenced by any bias believer to "interpret" it to them, they'll disbelieve in the bible and become an atheist. Entirely. And atheism would be perfectly justified considering the many genocides God performs in the bible, ...yet he loves us. That's all I'm saying. So, yes I have gripe against God and Jesus. I hate both,...I dont believe in both. I personally have a testimony of how that religion Christianity ruined a great portion of my life by me practicing it. Thats another story. But that's all I'll say. I actually wish there we're more atheist converts than Christian, because what's in the bible will contribute to the demise of humanity or all rational thinking all together.

So you don't like the bible, or the hypocrisy of church people, as you see it. All well and good, but once an adult, you were free never to be subject to any more of it. Yet you are still tormented by it, why is that ? 

[MWoo7]

Like this bit:::> "" Well dude, the thing is this...most people I know where raised on Christianity before turning atheist. I came up believing in that mess man.  "  I knew a nun, thought my mother was going to kill her, cracked me with yard or ruler across my knuckles before Christmas play.  Yeah all of us were in and around or had something to do with it when kids, later I met some Agnostics. Not sure about all of that regarding Agnostics but its better than hellfire brimstone everyone watching out for the priests, crazy times HA! oh and Tom Cruise crew or some(creationmyths/CS/ID whatever they've named it lately) having everything created 2000 years ago.  I exaggerate sometimes, drives the point in a little deeper.

Who needs sewing needles? when you have one of your own.

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by MWoo7

[+DieChecker]

5 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

No, we're not talking about human beings. We're talking about a being that is suppose to be "perfect" and "benevolent" by all means of the word. Your no better than a lost man if you think Satan goes around doing "good" things for people he supposedly hates and wants to see burn in hell. If the devil is evil, he's not giving up no ground. Trust me. Satan cant do good if he's truly evil. It's like Jesus said, Satan cant cast out Satan. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Im not sure if you even follow what Im saying. Think about this, we're talking about "God" a being who is said to be "all love" or "love itself" and benevolent,....in the bible, he goes around doing evil things. How can a being that is love itself, go around inciting wars, command his followers to murder other people by the thousands, and even goes around himself killing men, women, and innocent children among many things? Think about it. God can't be love or benevolent if he goes around doing the same exact things his enemy Satan is said to be doing. Its contradictory, my friend. You can't have a god that's all loving, yet all throughout the bible he is said to hate people and even claim vengeance and bloody murder against his enemies who don't fear and believe in him. You know that makes no sense. That's almost like saying Adolf Hitler was a good man, he just murdered millions of people because of a greater purpose he had for his country. No, because he murdered people and did those very evil things to human beings, that is what makes him a pure evil man. Hitler isn't good, he's evil. God isn't good either, he's evil. Many of you believers go around thinking good things about a being who is obviously evil. God does evil things,...really evil things. He murders thousands, he commands others to murder thousands, and he does so in such a large number Adolf Hitler couldn't compete with him. YET...his believers think he is loving or benevolent. You people must be severely deluded or nuts. One of the other. I'm sorry. You must hold a bias because your believers. You'll continue to find excuses to support your belief instead of looking at it critically to make sure it's something morally true and correct to believe in.   

Let me think about it again... Nope... You're wrong.

A person can love and hate the same person. An evil person can commit good acts. This is Dungeons and Dragons where you loose your experience, levels, and class if you violate your Alignment. In the real world even God and the Devil operate in shades of grey. 

Hitler... to history he is evil, but to Eva Braun, doubtless he was good. Perspective, context... We aren't built to understand why God does what He does.

[+DieChecker]

4 hours ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

 and I never knew who he was or what he was.

This is the root of your issues. I think it is true of your entire life. You never connected with God, or even knew who He was. Without that, everything else is just mythic stories.

[back to earth]

6 hours ago, Habitat said:

Legend, from my perspective you sound like someone who has read a book that was presented to you as factual, but after reading it you've decided it is actually a work of fiction. Unfortunately, you are now expressing dissatisfaction with characters in the plot. I think you could only blame the author for that, not the character(s) drawn in the book.

Well, he is up against people that claim  its not fiction and they wont believe otherwise, so, for them, best to point out who the  villain  really is .... something like that  ?  

[XenoFish]

I don't think the issue is god itself, I think it's how people use the religions they built around these god concepts. I also don't see a reason why god needs to have a hands on approach to our existence, given that we have free will and thus responsible for our actions. It's like passing the blame.

Then again the universe itself could be god and we are the self aware aspect of it. Even when we look at our microcosmos (in our head) and the macrocosmos (reality around us), we can easily change the inner landscape, but it takes actions to change the external reality. 

[An Urban Leg3nd]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Let me think about it again... Nope... You're wrong.

A person can love and hate the same person. An evil person can commit good acts. This is Dungeons and Dragons where you loose your experience, levels, and class if you violate your Alignment. In the real world even God and the Devil operate in shades of grey. 

Hitler... to history he is evil, but to Eva Braun, doubtless he was good. Perspective, context... We aren't built to understand why God does what He does.

Please. You haven't even begun to show how Im wrong. You claim I am, but you cant show I am. Your telling us an abusive father who beats his wife, and beats his kids, ..actually loves them when in actually he doesn't care about either because of what he does. He's hateful and uncaring, which is why he does the things he does. All the things you would have us believe with regards God in the context are silly really. God all throughout the bible goes around killing people, large number of people, tormenting people with plagues, and in Revelations his son Jesus is coming back to "finish the job" and perform a slaughter-fest on the entire world of unbelievers who werent saved in the rapture. What a very loving thing for God to do, instead of just revealing his existence to these people, the bible admits he purposely keeps people's minds closed so that they will believe a lie. So much for being a God of Truth. And this isn't even about "perspective" context, its about objectivity and the ability to identify exactly what's going on and categorizing it for what is, not what we wish or want it to be. God is love,...yet in the bible God specially says that he wishes to be FEARED and OBEYED. But in the book of John, John the Baptist tells us, there can be no fear in love. John also tells us if there is fear in love, the love has not been made perfect. That's who we're dealing with, a deity from 1000's of years ago in some ancient book who claims if you don't fear him, worship him, love him more than anyone else, obey his laws he set down, he's going to send you to hell for all eternity,...but he loves you. What if I just read the book you believers transcribe to, took everything it says into perspective and I just don't like the god or deity you guys worship and even if he is real, I reject him and fail to believe in him on the basis that he's really an evil, blood-thirsty, attention craving, narcissistic, fear mongering, war inciting, unmerciful, ruthless, unprotective, apathetic, devil of sorts instead of a loving Creator. God if he is exist, is not benevolent by far. But the opposite,...hate filled. Look at what he does and what he says, instead of applying titles to him like "heavenly father" or "Loving Creator" when they don't fit his actions at all.

Edited September 30, 2016 by An Urban Leg3nd

[XenoFish]

I think you have an unhealthy obsession with a figure from literature. Looking for anything and everything to back your claim. Is religion perfect, no. Are all religious people evil?no. Should some religious disappear? Yes. Or they should be updated with new knowledge. 

What I think you're doing is blaming all the hurt you've felt in your life on a god that might not even exist. Instead of sucking it up and moving on. Here's the thing about free will you choose. You choose what you want to believe and only you are responsible for your actions. Even a devout Christian can be just as big a prick as a strict atheist. The opposite also applies. 

I also think the worst if for non-believers and believers to think that any god will give someone a hand out. Even my own experiments with prayer here lately, I find that it eases my mind and sets up a certain level of motivation. Do these experiments in faith make me evil? If I decided to become a Christian with all that I've learned make be scum? Even if I fully acknowledge that there is a definite psychological principal behind it, am I now ignorant because I've chosen to fancy a myth?

[jmccr8]

Let's say that we evolved and at no point in time did the god concept develop. Who would be left to assume the responsibility for all the world's problems? I guess that leaves us as the culprits, so how does that differ from having a god?

jmccr8

[An Urban Leg3nd]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I think you have an unhealthy obsession with a figure from literature. Looking for anything and everything to back your claim. Is religion perfect, no. Are all religious people evil?no. Should some religious disappear? Yes. Or they should be updated with new knowledge. 

What I think you're doing is blaming all the hurt you've felt in your life on a god that might not even exist. Instead of sucking it up and moving on. Here's the thing about free will you choose. You choose what you want to believe and only you are responsible for your actions. Even a devout Christian can be just as big a prick as a strict atheist. The opposite also applies. 

I also think the worst if for non-believers and believers to think that any god will give someone a hand out. Even my own experiments with prayer here lately, I find that it eases my mind and sets up a certain level of motivation. Do these experiments in faith make me evil? If I decided to become a Christian with all that I've learned make be scum? Even if I fully acknowledge that there is a definite psychological principal behind it, am I now ignorant because I've chosen to fancy a myth?

Naaah,...I don't have an obsession with God or anything from the bible. I just have a problem with people who believe in ignorance. Its literally everywhere. I guess me and Mystic Crusader are on the same side.

Edited September 30, 2016 by An Urban Leg3nd

[XenoFish]

46 minutes ago, An Urban Leg3nd said:

Naaah,...I don't have an obsession with God or anything from the bible. I just have a problem with people who believe in ignorance. Its literally everywhere. I guess me and Mystic Crusader are on the same side.

Yeah I guess, because I don't care enough anymore to harp on how religion is evil. So long as people aren't being jerks to each other because of their beliefs, I don't care what they believe. It's liberating that way.