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What's wrong with Australia?


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Lol I'm not a sports fan so if I end up in any team colours it was a I liked the item of clothing and it just happens to be a team colour.  

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1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

 I don't see anything wrong with Hellwyr's OP.

Well I certainly did. What got my back up BRD (and I don't intend to apologise for) was in which the way Hellwyr worded the topic ie; as below.......

Wha's wrong with Australia?


Systematical Torture, Rape and Abuse

Then he proceeded to drop link after link in... of any negative article that he obviously scoured the internet for - without doing some fair research first. Instead of giving an opinion on these issues - it seemed more like accusations and judgement to the Australian people and our general society as a whole. To be honest - it was extremely rude in which the way he went about it.

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

It's probably quite inaccurate but some Aussie posters have overreacted IMO.  After all, Australians criticise other countries in these forums.  The religious Middle East, Israel, Brexit, US gun Laws, Trump, Clinton and the list goes on.

Personally - I certainly don't go out of my way to criticise other countries. I chime in sometimes when it comes to problems in the Middle East and the dreadful attacks that have occurred in Europe. These Islamic terrorists are impacting on all of us in one way or another. After all it is a world issue.

Also - as far as the election in the US is concerned - we should be taking an interest. As the next POTUS does not only have jurisdiction and supposedly strong leadership for America and it's people - but also for the world at large.

Like the old clique goes - 'If America sneezes..the world catches a cold' 

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

 

  I'm probably one of the harshest critics in some of these threads.  It would be very hypocritical of me to get all huffed up when someone else expresses an opinion of my home turf, no?

Well that depends if whether it's an opinion ....or direct / or indirect condemnation to ones country.

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2 hours ago, hellwyr said:

From your article:

Quote

...

Successive Australian leaders have defended the policy as humanitarian, to stop people drowning at sea, despite multiple reports of abuses at the country's offshore camps.
Between 2007 and 2013, the Australian government says at least 1,200 people lost their lives trying to make the journey over water.

...

 

From Amnesty International:

Quote

...

The problem

Dangerous journeys

Thousands of people who make their way from Central America across Mexico every year are abducted, killed and raped.

In Europe, many refugees and migrants don’t even reach dry land, as a tightening of “Fortress Europe” means the only route in is by overcrowded and unseaworthy boats, run by traffickers who care little whether their passengers arrive. At least 3,500 people died making the crossing in 2014 alone. European governments are more concerned with keeping people out than saving lives.

...

From the Australian Government Department of Immigration and Border Control:

Quote

...

People who will not be considered

The additional 12,000 humanitarian places will not be offered to people in Australia or regional processing countries who travelled to Australia illegally by boat.

The policy of Operation Sovereign Borders has not changed.

It remains Australia's policy to safely turn back boats or send people to another country for processing and resettlement.

People who are citizens of, or have a right of residence in, a country where it is safe for them to live, will not be considered for one of these humanitarian places.

...

In the early 90's people smugglers were said to be demanding the equivalent of AUD 10,000 to board - what AI describe as - an unseaworthy vessel.

Coastwatch Patrols of Arafura and Timor Seas proved to inadequate when, by the mid to late 90's,  boats were reported landing as far south as Bega, NSW.

People smugglers showed they were prepared to put peoples lives at greater risk; and the business model appeared to be growing in popularity.

The catch cry of the Australian Government of late has been "We've stopped the boats".  Boats may have been stopped from landing on Australian shores; but it won't prevent people from drowning.    There is nothing within its sovereign power that Australia can do to stop the boats from departing.

AI don't propose a solution to stopping people trafficking.

The best thing Australia can do is to encourage prospective asylum seekers to go the established legitimate channels by:

Quote

...

working closely with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the International Organization for Migration and other partners to deliver ... 12,000 Humanitarian Programme places ... to people displaced by the conflict in Syria and Iraq who are:

  • assessed as being most vulnerable – persecuted minorities, women, children and families with the least prospect of ever returning safely to their homes
  • located in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey.

...

...

Have you got a better solution; or do you advocate this continued exploitation by people smugglers?

Your opinion is welcome, if you have one.

Heck, the last Labor Prime Minister to win (survive) an election was born in Wales.

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15 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yeah all well and good and as I said, his info is pretty inaccurate but I think you'll find most news is at the tip of your fingers these days and, yes, the locals will always know better.  It still doesn't mean someone can't express an opinion.  That's my point.  After all it's an international forum and the reaction from the experts (or the locals) should be of guidance not outrage.

I agree, and to what I see, I believe that Hammerclaw did just that - expressed an opinion and offered his source, which I think is a world of difference between casting judgment, I agree, a kick in the complacency every now and then does not hurt, but he seemed to be looking for things to make a big deal, of repeating himself without realising it, and pointing at places outside of Australia that our Consulates are dealing with showing he didn't really read the links at all I think, and he was just looking for an excuse to bag it. And I feel the way that post is constructed, it is a deliberate flame. In fact I see Astra has outlined what is offensive in his post very eloquently. I think if he was serious, the only incident in that list really worth discussing is the NT detention centre crimes that have outraged the nation this week and if that is any sort of real threat to a tourist, and how do Aussies see this action. To say one would not want to come here for those far spanning incidents is just ridiculous and a crack at this marvellous country and it's great people. I can't blame him for not knowing this is the greatest country on the planet, but I take a dubious message from his accusations that should have been questions. I have criticised the US on Gun Culture and religious adherence, and I see where you are coming from, but I do ask questions and then work from there. Hammerclaw was instrumental in helping me understand how all that works over there and is a great example of how one can learn a great deal from the people who are there. We can still form opinions, but with a local aspect, that opinion I feel is likely to change.

Also, as I say, I have debated that poster before and IMHO, find he likes to flame others. Some posters seem to get a kick out of "making things lively" Yamanto is another. 

 

Look at you go :D You are a great example of a typical Aussie, laid back, want no problems, yet ready to look at any problem and resolve it. Proud to call you a fellow countryman! You are a good ambassador :tu: 

Even if you are a Cockroach!!!!! :D:D

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13 hours ago, hellwyr said:

Again. that is freaking Nauru.

 

You are saying there are problems in Australia, that is further away from Australia than both PNG and NZ, we have a consulate there, Australia is NOT in Nauru. 

Apart from the brilliant points Mangoze brought up, did you read your article at all????????

During his visit to the island, Bochenek said refugees told him they experienced regular harassment from locals, poor medical treatment and often discussed killing themselves, including children as young as 10.

 

Again this is NAURU, the Locals are NOT Aussies. 

YOU said:

I had a certain image of Australia, but it looks as though this image was wrong.

 No matter where such horrible and disgusting incidents happen it always leads to the asking of certain questions about that country's society.

Maybe you should buy an Atlas to start with you bloody clown. How the hell are Nauru locals Australian Society? Aussies do not live in Nauru, they live in Australia.

Also form the link:

Successive Australian leaders have defended the policy as humanitarian, to stop people drowning at sea, despite multiple reports of abuses at the country's offshore camps.

Between 2007 and 2013, the Australian government says at least 1,200 people lost their lives trying to make the journey over water.

NAURU locals (not Aussies) apparently make life hard enough for refugees to consider suicide according to the article, as you can plainly see, if they do not get transferred to a centre, they do not wonder about dying, they do die. 

nrnewz.gif

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15 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

7627328-3x2-940x627.jpg

 

:D They looked pretty deflated to me in the last rubber.  Doesn't appear to be a team that wanted to "let us win".

 

 

Come on mate........ you're talking to ME now............. :lol:

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7 minutes ago, Stardrive said:

Here's a sorely missed Australian showing us how big his heart is:

 

irwin.jpg

 

Got that one right!! Will always be missed, taken way too soon I took my kids to Australia Zoo only a few weeks ago, great day out for the family. 

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@ Mangoze

@ Astra

 

Brilliant posts people, nicely put, great points. I just had to say that. I enjoyed reading them. 

clap.gif

 

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aww, Australian Zoo, that's bucket list material there my friend. Yeah I bet it was a great day!!

As an aside I couldn't help but notice your new sig. You do know they discovered a unicorn fossil,....  well kinda anyways.... LOL

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I was never that enamoured by Steve, and his brood have left me cold. 

My father and Old Man Bob did get into a shouting match though, so I might be biased.

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2 hours ago, Stardrive said:

aww, Australian Zoo, that's bucket list material there my friend. Yeah I bet it was a great day!!

As an aside I couldn't help but notice your new sig. You do know they discovered a unicorn fossil,....  well kinda anyways.... LOL

It is a great day, I was actually surprised that we stayed until ten minutes after closing time. I didn't expect such a "full" Day!

I do not think the "Unicorn" they discovered is the one in the pic in my sig........ ;) Is there a thread in crypto or NW on it by any chance? 

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1 hour ago, Lord Fedorable said:

I was never that enamoured by Steve, and his brood have left me cold. 

My father and Old Man Bob did get into a shouting match though, so I might be biased.

Yeah, you mentioned that, May I ask what is was about - no worries if too personal. 

Funny that, I kinda liked Bob as he seems to have more grounded ideas than Terry has. I just do not feel she has done such a good job of upholding his legacy. Bindi is going great guns, but I heard she is already speaking about marriage? Seems a bit young is all. Shame that. 

Terry just looks so in love with herself with all the security guards and police at every signing and so forth. It removes the personable character Steve had given the place. 

It will be my last trip to Australia Zoo for quite some time. Once I walked into a souvenir shop and Saw Sea Shepherd Tee Shirts being sold there, I realised why I had not been in years and walked straight back out and refused to support them with any further purchases. Because they support that bunch of moronic pirates, I will not support Australia Zoo. Sadly, it put a real sour note on a great day, but I kept that to myself. It shows that you certainly have got good reason for distrust, even though before this time I would have said otherwise considering how well liked Steve has always been. Anyone who supports those pirates is not a conservationist IMHO. 

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3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

@ Mangoze

@ Astra

Brilliant posts people, nicely put, great points. I just had to say that. I enjoyed reading them. 

DY3VM_zpsyatirdvf.gif

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2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yeah, you mentioned that, May I ask what is was about - no worries if too personal. 

Funny that, I kinda liked Bob as he seems to have more grounded ideas than Terry has. I just do not feel she has done such a good job of upholding his legacy. Bindi is going great guns, but I heard she is already speaking about marriage? Seems a bit young is all. Shame that. 

Terry just looks so in love with herself with all the security guards and police at every signing and so forth. It removes the personable character Steve had given the place. 

It will be my last trip to Australia Zoo for quite some time. Once I walked into a souvenir shop and Saw Sea Shepherd Tee Shirts being sold there, I realised why I had not been in years and walked straight back out and refused to support them with any further purchases. Because they support that bunch of moronic pirates, I will not support Australia Zoo. Sadly, it put a real sour note on a great day, but I kept that to myself. It shows that you certainly have got good reason for distrust, even though before this time I would have said otherwise considering how well liked Steve has always been. Anyone who supports those pirates is not a conservationist IMHO. 

Well, I would have been three years old and I slithered into our digs a snake. 

One quick application of a mattock to the head later and it's a dead snake. Dad takes the head and body to Queensland Reptile and Fauna Park (showing my age there) and asks Bob what it was. Bob was angry and dad killing a children's Python, dad quite clear I was three, Blb said he let his boy play with snakes and dad said "yeah, well I'm not here to judge your parenting, just to make sure my family's safe" and it went from there.

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34 minutes ago, Lord Fedorable said:

Well, I would have been three years old and I slithered into our digs a snake. 

One quick application of a mattock to the head later and it's a dead snake. Dad takes the head and body to Queensland Reptile and Fauna Park (showing my age there) and asks Bob what it was. Bob was angry and dad killing a children's Python, dad quite clear I was three, Blb said he let his boy play with snakes and dad said "yeah, well I'm not here to judge your parenting, just to make sure my family's safe" and it went from there.

 

Well, that is more than fair enough. Rather stupid on Bob's part too, letting a 3 year old play with a snake is sheer madness, even if Steve was the result. I never understood why people think dangerous animals make good pets. 

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I respect Bob Irwin to death, but his anger at a father who offed a snake his THREE YEAR OLD was playing with is totally over the top. Especially considering the ambiguous characteristics of Australian snakes; what looks harmless here in the States might be very venomous there! 

I'm a reptile (and arachnid) lover and have obsessively both studied and housed countless species of snakes, lizards, amphibians, spiders and scorpions since I was eight years old. They've run the gamut from the most benign to most venomous in the world but am still amazed how carelessly treat them in captivity. Little boys and girls taking pictures with snakes four times their size; the same kids holding smaller alligators and crocodiles; grown adults free handling some of the most venomous species in the world. 

Bad precedent, for sure, but they give a bad name to anyone who wishes to observe these animals and truly study them. I'm your typical stubborn American and hate new regulations, but idiots like these are a very good reason for crackdowns. 

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7 hours ago, Lord Fedorable said:

I was never that enamoured by Steve, and his brood have left me cold. 

My father and Old Man Bob did get into a shouting match though, so I might be biased.

What about this guy?

fishdog-600x400.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Mangoze said:

What about this guy?

fishdog-600x400.jpg

Malcolm Douglas ? Met a nasty end too.

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5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Malcolm Douglas ? Met a nasty end too.

Yep.  Fortunately we've still got him on video. 

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Never seemed like a risk taker, must have got a little careless that day. I always enjoyed his stuff, not over-hyped. I don't think I ever saw that old doco, "Across The Top" he made in the mid-60's, but it was very popular at the time.

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I use to enjoy watching Bush Tucker Man. The love and knowledge he had for the Australian bush was simply amazing. I also liked his funny hat  :tu:.... I hope they play the series again. 

the_hat.jpg

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