DingoLingo Posted July 27, 2016 #26 Share Posted July 27, 2016 40 minutes ago, bmk1245 said: So? I grew up below your "medium social economic demographic area". So what? school was rough and tumble.. I grew up in west Australia's bogan central .. you know the norm.. drugs.. violence.. most school kids got below average scores.. so the funding (as is today) gets based on the demographics.. ie.. low to middle area's get trade based schooling.. the medium to high get the starter for university education.. If your parents wanted you to do better.. you'd end up doing a 2 to 3 hour bus trip to go to one of the private schools.. hence the reason why I said the op post was like my high school years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 27, 2016 #27 Share Posted July 27, 2016 24 minutes ago, DingoLingo said: school was rough and tumble.. I grew up in west Australia's bogan central .. you know the norm.. drugs.. violence.. most school kids got below average scores.. so the funding (as is today) gets based on the demographics.. ie.. low to middle area's get trade based schooling.. the medium to high get the starter for university education.. If your parents wanted you to do better.. you'd end up doing a 2 to 3 hour bus trip to go to one of the private schools.. hence the reason why I said the op post was like my high school years Oh, boy, you certainly, had "fun time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingoLingo Posted July 27, 2016 #28 Share Posted July 27, 2016 actually I did LOL.. aside from all the crap I really did enjoy high school.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 27, 2016 #29 Share Posted July 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, DingoLingo said: actually I did LOL.. aside from all the crap I really did enjoy high school.. Damn you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted July 27, 2016 #30 Share Posted July 27, 2016 6 hours ago, hellwyr said: Well I didn't blame the society I only implied that such incidents lead to certain questions. Those incidents were systematically, so it just logical to ask whether there are connections to the society or not. I am aware that an investigation is being conducted and I look forward to seeing what they will present. And as far as I know asking questions is the right thing to do at least in a healthy society. Also, apparently you take it personally when someone posts things about your country (even though these articles only state facts O.o) Instead of being shocked that something like this can happen in your country you feel personally attacked. Since I lack any patriotism for any country your reaction is not understandable from my point of view. Anyway I didn't mean to offend you. I am just shocked by these incidents and when something like this happens where I live, I, in fact, do analyze if it has something to do with the society. I am not going to make excuses for these terrible things that are / and have been occurring here. And we obviously have to 'clean house' on these issues.....but as I have said before....these problems are now out in the open and will be dealt with. You say you lack any patriotism for 'a country' (that is rather sad) What about your own country of origin ? - where are you from ? So you are now residing in the US are you?....so I assume..that you don't have any loyalty to that country either ? I think if you research any or most countries in the world - one can find a long string of problems they have regarding misconduct - corruption and crime - as you have already done. Also..you can sugar coat things all you like...but you did target Australia. It is always easy to find plenty of negatives on someones country if one chooses to do so. (oh! that's right...you don't really belong to any country do you?) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 27, 2016 #31 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Drags vs Aussies... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca-RoseElsie-Raemom1921 Posted July 27, 2016 #32 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Sadly all those things could happen anywhere in the world. In fact a simple Google search on any of themes to the news stories you posted would bring up hundreds if not thousands of simular stories across the world. Also yes teachers did use the cane back in the 70s (thankfully before my time) and some where more then happy to use it for the slightest reason. Australia was "founded" by the white settlers in January 1788 and most parts (not South Australia) originated as penal colonies. It was not until the early 60s that Indigenous people were given the right to vote. In regards to this comment: No matter where such horrible and disgusting incidents happen it always leads to the asking of certain questions about that country's society. You cannot label everyone in the same category it would be wrong and false to do so, that is like saying everyone of whatever religion are to blame for the bad apples who do wrong in the world there are other factors that come into play. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 28, 2016 #33 Share Posted July 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, Ruby04 said: [...] are to blame for the bad apples who do wrong in the world there are other factors that come into play. Applephobe... There are no bad apples, there are bad people. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted July 28, 2016 #34 Share Posted July 28, 2016 12 minutes ago, bmk1245 said: Applephobe... There are no bad apples, there are bad people. Yep peoplephobe - unfortunately there are bad people everywhere. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted July 28, 2016 #35 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Australia is certainly a much less liberal society than in my youth, I do feel for the following generations that have been screwed over by the dominant baby boomer generation, that have bestowed on them. e.g., the legacy of education debt and unaffordable housing. The share of wealth in the hands of the baby boomers proves my point. They have re-arranged the system to suit themselves, since taking over power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 28, 2016 #36 Share Posted July 28, 2016 12 hours ago, hellwyr said: Recently a lot of bad news from Australia came to my attention ... Australian refugee policy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/18/australias-refugee-policies-a-global-inspiration-for-all-the-wrong-reasons https://newmatilda.com/2015/10/15/australian-doctors-are-sick-of-the-mistreatment-of-refugees-we-can-help-them-end-it/ ... Not one mention of the UNHCR in either of these articles. Perhaps the the word 'refugee' is being used unconventionally. 12 hours ago, hellwyr said: and so on Do go on... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca-RoseElsie-Raemom1921 Posted July 28, 2016 #37 Share Posted July 28, 2016 19 minutes ago, bmk1245 said: Applephobe... There are no bad apples, there are bad people. Technically there are bad apples, bruised, rotted, worm in them. Ok if you want to think I'm an applephobe go for it, I've been called a lot worse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 28, 2016 #38 Share Posted July 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Astra. said: Yep peoplephobe - unfortunately there are bad people everywhere. Well... Can't resist obvious facts. You win. Me cry. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 28, 2016 #39 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Ruby04 said: Technically there are bad apples, bruised, rotted, worm in them. Ok if you want to think I'm an applephobe go for it, I've been called a lot worse. Really? Really?!! Can you send bad apples to EU, I'll make some fine wine... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 28, 2016 #40 Share Posted July 28, 2016 4 hours ago, DingoLingo said: ... Remember we are still a young country.. hell we are only starting to recognize that the settlement of Australia was really a invasion.. We have only just elected our first female aboriginal politician.. and I mean just.. (a few weeks ago) .. ... More than a few weeks... Quote On 7 September 2013 Peris became Australia's first indigenous woman elected to federal parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Peris#Political_career 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 28, 2016 #41 Share Posted July 28, 2016 50 minutes ago, Ruby04 said: Sadly all those things could happen anywhere in the world. In fact a simple Google search on any of themes to the news stories you posted would bring up hundreds if not thousands of simular stories across the world. Also yes teachers did use the cane back in the 70s (thankfully before my time) and some where more then happy to use it for the slightest reason. Australia was "founded" by the white settlers in January 1788 and most parts (not South Australia) originated as penal colonies. It was not until the early 60s that Indigenous people were given the right to vote. In regards to this comment: No matter where such horrible and disgusting incidents happen it always leads to the asking of certain questions about that country's society. You cannot label everyone in the same category it would be wrong and false to do so, that is like saying everyone of whatever religion are to blame for the bad apples who do wrong in the world there are other factors that come into play. Yep, Ruby - they call it "human nature" and every place that has humans has those problems to one extent or another. Hellboy just seems to need to beat up on Oz today. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca-RoseElsie-Raemom1921 Posted July 28, 2016 #42 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Very true And then. Hmm seems that way, also seems like they are almost trolling with their answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted July 28, 2016 #43 Share Posted July 28, 2016 19 minutes ago, Mangoze said: Do go on... Yes - I was wondering about that little comment he had made. Hmm! - what other dirt on Australia has he got up his sleeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 28, 2016 #44 Share Posted July 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Astra. said: Yes - I was wondering about that little comment he had made. Hmm! - what other dirt on Australia has he got up his sleeve Ummm... how about our regular need for Royal Commissions? I did notice that reports of child sex abuse didn't catch his attention. Off the top of my head... Australia's encouragement of Nauru to ratify the refugee convention made me suspicious of the handling of illegal immigrants. And I don't think the AFP handled the whole Bali Nine issue very well and perhaps could be seen as holding the abolition of the death penalty in contempt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 28, 2016 #45 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I was reading up on the detention abuses, and thought to myself, "Well, at least Australia isn't perfect.". It is so easy to nation shame other nations when your own country is perfect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 28, 2016 #46 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, DieChecker said: I was reading up on the detention abuses, and thought to myself, "Well, at least Australia isn't perfect.". It is so easy to nation shame other nations when your own country is perfect. And what country is perfect? Yeah, I know, you meant "isn't"... Though... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 28, 2016 #47 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) What's wrong with Oz? What's wrong with Wales? Peel back the scab and you'll find plenty of ugliness and misery everywhere in the world and to spare. https://www.bevanfoundation.org/publications/making-welfare-wales-benefits-people-working-age-devolved/ https://www.bevanfoundation.org/commentary/what-is-wrong-with-waless-third-sector/ Edited July 28, 2016 by Hammerclaw 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted July 28, 2016 #48 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Well now I feel silly Hammer - I had asked hellwyr earlier what country of origin he was from. err!... the Welsh Dragon on his signature should have been obvious ....unless of course he simply likes red dragons 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Posted July 28, 2016 Author #49 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, Astra. said: I am not going to make excuses for these terrible things that are / and have been occurring here. And we obviously have to 'clean house' on these issues.....but as I have said before....these problems are now out in the open and will be dealt with. You say you lack any patriotism for 'a country' (that is rather sad) What about your own country of origin ? - where are you from ? So you are now residing in the US are you?....so I assume..that you don't have any loyalty to that country either ? I think if you research any or most countries in the world - one can find a long string of problems they have regarding misconduct - corruption and crime - as you have already done. Also..you can sugar coat things all you like...but you did target Australia. It is always easy to find plenty of negatives on someones country if one chooses to do so. (oh! that's right...you don't really belong to any country do you?) Patriotism First off, I don't need your pity and I do not feel sad. I chose consciously the way of life I am leading. I do not want to tie my identity to an abstract construct like a nation. I feel comfortable being a human and that is also how I like to view others. People may call themselves whatever they want, but in the end they are no different and they are just humans. Boundaries and Frontiers are an artificial construct and only serve the purpose to make it possible for some to play their "power-game". Also labeling oneself limits the possibilities a person has in life, since labels always are made up of certain imaginations. Those images can restrict one or they can in some cases help too, but at the end of the day they are in itself a restriction. Furthermore, I don't want to understand why it is necessary to feel proud for something you haven't achieved. People who are patriotic feel proud for the accomplishments of others. While I do understand that you could feel proud for the accomplishments of others (for example in science a new breakthrough which takes humanity a step further), I can not understand why such an accomplishment ought to be more important if it was accomplished by a person from your country. The same goes when something bad happens: people feel shocked if it happens to people in the same country or to a person who maybe has the same values. For me that is hypocrisy; either I think it is bad or not, I don't care whether that person is from my country or not. That being said, if something in your neighborhood happens then that is naturally a different story. I could have chosen to tie myself to a country, but as I said before I do not want to. I want to feel comfortable just being a human on earth, since I have the ability to live wherever I want to on the earth. And I think it is sad to restrict oneself. I understand that there are perks if one decides to be patriotic. For example you might meet like-minded people and have good times with them. However, for me that is not enough. It is not enough if the only connection you have with these people is the fact that you feel proud for the same nation. This is just boring for me. Friendship is something else for me and has nothing to do with patriotism. The possibility to find like-minded friends is so much wider if you open up to the whole world. That being said, since the majority of people in a country identify themselves with the history of their country, certain rules developed over time. These rules can be likeable or not, but most people follow them "blindly". For example how they treat each-other, how they talk and how they behave. For me I like how the US society works (However it also depends on the state I guess). So I feel comfortable there. It might be true that the US also has a lot of issues. But I am optimistic that she will overcome them. (-this is also the reason why I was wondering about Australia's society /rules) Indentity However, people tend to identify with things which feel close to their personal history. So, in the course of my life I did identify myself with witches, pagans, Celtic history. The history of the oppressed and free. Australia Of course I did target Australia. Since these news occurred recently and this thread is solely about Australia. However, I admit I could have chosen a different headline for this thread. These things happened recently, so I think it is a just logical that they get posted now. Wales Nope I wasn't born in Cymru. The Dragon Wales uses in her flag has its root in the Celtic lore. For example Merddin wrote about it and I have it in my signature because of its symbolic meaning. Edited July 28, 2016 by hellwyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 28, 2016 #50 Share Posted July 28, 2016 You choose to say things; but you can't escape administration. You have no choice over your passport, nor the currency you spend. That boundaries are an artificial construct is a moot point. Your world is artificial. This forum is artificial. The money you earn and spend is artificial. You're not patriotic? What is the Welsh dragon? What's wrong with Australia? We don't have a dominantfly-half! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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