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Brexit


alibongo

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56 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

You bring up irrelevancies and don't see the real issue.  I would not want the Chinese ruling Cambodia, and never suggested it.  Being part of Europe is a different question and a desirable thing.

No Frank, you bring up massively sweeping stereotypes which seek to mask the real issues by brushing them all with the lazy "well, you're all Nasty Racists who Hate Foreigners" card, which frankly is unworthy of you. Your objecting to the analogy shows your ignorance of what the EU actually is.

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57 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

 The British are giving all the benefits up and have no hegemony to worry about.  They were, by a narrow vote, just simply bigoted and stupid.

Frank, that's a bigoted and stupid thing to say. You don't understand that, do you?  

Edited by Grand Moff Tarkin
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I'm not sure but I think at least some British don't like the word "Brit."  At any rate I've always avoided it out of a sort-of instinct of what is likely to be offensive.

On the other hand, the Khmer don't mind "Cambodian" at all, even though it makes me (as a Vietnamese in Cambodia and therefore very concerned about never giving offense) a little uncomfortable (and, of course, the official name of the nation is "Cambodia.").

 

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35 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

Frank, that's a bigoted and stupid thing to say. You don't understand that, do you?  

You would like to think so I guess, but my opinion is well-informed and obviously yours is the ignorant, bigoted one.  At any rate, once the British begin to feel the effects of their stupidity, they may change there mind.  It will be too late, though, just because of people like you.

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19 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

You would like to think so I guess, but my opinion is well-informed and obviously yours is the ignorant, bigoted one.  At any rate, once the British begin to feel the effects of their stupidity, they may change there mind.  It will be too late, though, just because of people like you.

.

re underlined -

and there we have it - the quintessential example of how many Remain supporters see themselves - 

and what they think about anyone who doesn't share their opinion -

ironically this kind of smug attitude probably helped Leave supporters gather enough votes on the day to win -

.

 

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.

Anyone would think Britain was the only EU country where many (a majority?) of the citizens want out -
the difference being that those countries who adopted the Euro could have more difficulties
extricating themselves -

they too want to have more of a say about what happens in their own countries - and to them 'we' (while
we are still in the EU) are actually some of the 'foreigners' they don't want to be controlling their destiny -

The EU is going to have a job holding it all together in the long run - and this is why I think the EU Army
is a worrying development because it could be used in the future to keep  rebelious EU citizens in line -
defending the EU itself from within, rather than an outside force - 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-26/civil-uprising-escalates-8th-eu-nation-threatens-referendum

It appears, just as we warned, that Brexit was indeed the first of many dominoes. Even before the Brexit result, a poll by Ipsos Mori showed that the majority of people in France and Italy want to at least have a referendum on leaving:

Clrs-wNVYAA01iT_0.jpg

 

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48 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

You would like to think so I guess, but my opinion is well-informed and obviously yours is the ignorant, bigoted one.  At any rate, once the British begin to feel the effects of their stupidity, they may change there mind.  It will be too late, though, just because of people like you.

There's really no reply to that, unless you are in fact making a subtle joke. If you're not, then there's really nothing I, or indeed anyone else, can say to you any more. 

 

*wanders off shaking head* 

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3 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

Your infinitely expandable definition of xenophobia now includes anyone who isn't really happy with the idea of bureaucrats in some remote parliament who no one ever had a chance to vote for imposing laws on them? I'd have thought better of you than to resort so easily to the tired out "racist xenophobes" card, Leo. That's a really tired old argument.

Being xenophobic does not automatically mean a person is "racist", Otto - but nice of you to project that I promote that fallacy.

I have very little doubt the main reason behind the Brexit vote was xenophobia/nationalism. The argument for "democracy" doesn't fly. The argument for "economy" is, at the very least, uncertain. The argument for "immigration" has been shown to be false - because immigration likely won't change at all whether Britain is in or out of the EU. What other argument "remains" (pun intended)?

Edited by Leonardo
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45 minutes ago, bee said:

.

re underlined -

and there we have it - the quintessential example of how many Remain supporters see themselves - 

and what they think about anyone who doesn't share their opinion -

ironically this kind of smug attitude probably helped Leave supporters gather enough votes on the day to win -

.

 

Politically I would say roughly there are two kinds of people.  One are liberal, open, friendly to foreigners, see mankind as one entity sharing one planet, tolerant, concerned more about others than themselves, compassionate to refugees and the poor.  The other are nationalistic, somewhat selfish, tending to parochialism, thinking their people or language or culture (or all of these) superior,  seeing each nation and culture as separate and competing with the rest of humanity, and sometimes outright bigoted, although usually more polite about it, it still shows through.

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1 minute ago, Frank Merton said:

Politically I would say roughly there are two kinds of people.  One are liberal, open, friendly to foreigners, see mankind as one entity sharing one planet, tolerant, concerned more about others than themselves, compassionate to refugees and the poor.  The other are nationalistic, somewhat selfish, tending to parochialism, thinking their people or language or culture (or all of these) superior,  seeing each nation and culture as separate and competing with the rest of humanity, and sometimes outright bigoted, although usually more polite about it, it still shows through.

.

Real life's not as black and white as that - and it's unrealistic for you to believe it is -

you obviously see yourself as one of the caring sharing good guys - well that's nice for you but you have shown that 
your mask slips when you start your insulting and name calling of anyone who doesn't think the same way as you -

.

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Yes I do.  And I see you and about a dozen others on this board otherwise.

No life is not so simple, but sometimes it is useful cut through the crap and tell the simple truth.

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31 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Being xenophobic does not automatically mean a person is "racist", Otto - but nice of you to project that I promote that fallacy.

I have very little doubt the main reason behind the Brexit vote was xenophobia/nationalism. The argument for "democracy" doesn't fly. The argument for "economy" is, at the very least, uncertain. The argument for "immigration" has been shown to be false - because immigration likely won't change at all whether Britain is in or out of the EU. What other argument "remains" (pun intended)?

.

you're starting to sound like a broken record now -

The argument for democracy is central to the Leave vote - whether you try and wriggle out of that and pontificate
on a daily basis or not - 

Just a side thought - to the way you go on - bet you would make a good dictator if you had the chance to be one - :P

.
 

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2 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Yes I do.  And I see you and about a dozen others on this board otherwise.

No life is not so simple, but sometimes it is useful cut through the crap and tell the simple truth.

I honestly would have thought "i'm right, you're wrong because you don't see it the same ways I do, and not only are you wrong, but I'm going to call you stupid and bigoted and any other childish term of insult that comes to mind for thinking differently to me" was above you, but this thread seems to have proved otherwise. This is rather sad. 

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17 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Politically I would say roughly there are two kinds of people.  One are liberal, open, friendly to foreigners, see mankind as one entity sharing one planet, tolerant, concerned more about others than themselves, compassionate to refugees and the poor.  The other are nationalistic, somewhat selfish, tending to parochialism, thinking their people or language or culture (or all of these) superior,  seeing each nation and culture as separate and competing with the rest of humanity, and sometimes outright bigoted, although usually more polite about it, it still shows through.

And then there's the adults, the lifeboats full one more person will make it sink what do you do?

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38 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Being xenophobic does not automatically mean a person is "racist", Otto - but nice of you to project that I promote that fallacy.

I have very little doubt the main reason behind the Brexit vote was xenophobia/nationalism. The argument for "democracy" doesn't fly. The argument for "economy" is, at the very least, uncertain. The argument for "immigration" has been shown to be false - because immigration likely won't change at all whether Britain is in or out of the EU. What other argument "remains" (pun intended)?

it seems that you too are beginning to take the "my views are the correct ones because they're my opinions, and everyone else's can just be dismissed" as well, it seems, which is even more sad. Your explanation as to why "the argument for "democracy" doesn't fly", for example, has never really been satisfactory.

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24 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Politically I would say roughly there are two kinds of people.  One are liberal, open, friendly to foreigners, see mankind as one entity sharing one planet, tolerant, concerned more about others than themselves, compassionate to refugees and the poor.  The other are nationalistic, somewhat selfish, tending to parochialism, thinking their people or language or culture (or all of these) superior,  seeing each nation and culture as separate and competing with the rest of humanity, and sometimes outright bigoted, although usually more polite about it, it still shows through.

There are two kinds of people; those who make sweeping generalisations and lump people together as "nice" (those who agree with me) and "nasty" (everyone else), and those who see that things are sometimes slightly more subtle than that. It's pretty clear which category you're proud to put yourself in. (The same one as "Trump: Says nasty things about foreigners. Therefore: Nasty. Clinton: talks about Inclusiveness, and Katy Perry supports her. Therefore: Nice.) 

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3 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Yes I do.  And I see you and about a dozen others on this board otherwise.

No life is not so simple, but sometimes it is useful cut through the crap and tell the simple truth.

.

wow -

we all make valued judgements in line with our education and upbringing - but really
I think you have got a bit carried away with your own piety -

still never mnd - you're not the only one - I expect that when the notorious Jihad John was sawing the head off his
victims he felt equally as right and in possession of 'simple truth' as you do --

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The sense of righteousness from various people does seem to be an almost religious one. Have you noticed that their arguments have moved beyond (or regressed from) practical arguments about econics or practical policy, and now it's just "well, you're bigoted and stupid, so there." *sticks tongue out*

Edited by Grand Moff Tarkin
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3 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

The sense of righteousness from various people does seem to be an almost religious one. Have you noticed that their arguments have moved beyond (or regressed from) practical arguments about econics or practical policy, and now it's just "well, you're bigoted and stupid, so there." *sticks tongue out*

.

indeed

something's going on - it's like this thread is an indication that the Remainers haven't given up the fight to remain
and sod the democratic decision to Leave - smearing the Leave voters seems to be the main line of attack now - 

Project Fear has been extended to Project Fear and Smear -

jeeez how unfair of the Leave voters to deny Britain of a political paradise beyond compare - 

[insert images of riots in various EU countries here]

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53 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

it seems that you too are beginning to take the "my views are the correct ones because they're my opinions, and everyone else's can just be dismissed" as well, it seems, which is even more sad. Your explanation as to why "the argument for "democracy" doesn't fly", for example, has never really been satisfactory.

And you, or bee, or anyone else in this thread is not doing the same, Otto?

Give me a break, of course everyone thinks their opinions are "the correct ones" - the only difference lies in whether there is any substance behind those opinions to support them. I have produced enough substance to show my opinions are well-supported.

And to whom has my argument "not been satisfactory" - to you? So, you smear me by suggesting my opinions are lightweight (without showing how you conclude that), then set yourself up as the "ultimate authority" and suggest your opinions reveal "the truth".

Tell me, am I the one with the ego here?

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Well, all things considered ... that went rather quite well I must say ...

So ... who's goonna take the Shield this year eh ? The Devils or the Foxes ?

~

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11 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

And you, or bee, or anyone else in this thread is not doing the same, Otto?

Give me a break, of course everyone thinks their opinions are "the correct ones" - the only difference lies in whether there is any substance behind those opinions to support them. I have produced enough substance to show my opinions are well-supported.

And to whom has my argument "not been satisfactory" - to you? So, you smear me by suggesting my opinions are lightweight (without showing how you conclude that), then set yourself up as the "ultimate authority" and suggest your opinions reveal "the truth".

Tell me, am I the one with the ego here?

No, you are not the one with an agenda here.

But expect those who have one to keep attacking you as soon as you point out a flaw in their grand plan (or the plan their superiors have ordered them to defend).

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I see good of Jezza Corbyn has said today:

Labour will not stand in the way of Brexit amid fresh attacks on his “lukewarm” campaigning before the referendum.

The Labour leader ruled out support for a second referendum adding: “You have to respect the decision people made.”

Your Leader and opposition have spoken.

and in related News:

Britain set to Leave the Single Market. Government has begun considering leaving the single market for the first time. if we leave the single Market what powers ACE card will the EU have, none. I said didnt i not so long ago, we walk in the negotiations and ask for nothing. job jobbed.

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50 minutes ago, questionmark said:

No, you are not the one with an agenda here.

But expect those who have one to keep attacking you as soon as you point out a flaw in their grand plan (or the plan their superiors have ordered them to defend).

.

says the master of  agenda posting -

do you think we won't notice when you and Leo try and just twist the argument around when your own fails to impress -?

That post was pretty funny actually and very revealing - (as if it wasn't obvious what you're up to anyway) BIG LOL -

.

 

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Just now, bee said:

.

says the master of  agenda posting -

do you think we won't notice when you and Leo try and just twist the argument around when your own fails to impress -?

That post was pretty funny actually and very revealing - (as if it wasn't obvious what you're up to anyway) BIG LOL -

.

 

We have seen your feather bush my dear, don't bother trying to impress by being "stealthy".

 

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