Brexit

[Black Red Devil]

4 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

...everyone hear that?  It's the sound of a truck backing up.

Oh look, he's finally quoted one of my posts.  Can't answer on any of the numerous facts I've provided him or illuminate us with his brilliant ideas, but hey, at least the jibes are coming directly now and.... it's a major breakthrough in communication.  

OT You finally managed to work out an answer for the 1953 coup yet or you still scratching your skull?

[Black Red Devil]

Everyone here that?  It's the sound of silence. BWAHAHA

Edited August 10, 2016 by Black Red Devil

[hetrodoxly]

15 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting that if the Americans didn't enter WWII Britain alone would have saved Europe from the Germans??   Are you suggesting that Britain kicked back the Germans on the Eastern Front and not the Russians? I'm stumped by so much arrogance and obliviousness.  Why don't you explain to us how Britain did it because our text books seem to indicate something different.

Start off from the phrase ": and we are sick of helping out Europe since Waterloo" and work your way from there.  Let's not be misunderstood or misquote me, the phrase, which you obviously defend and support, was intended to mean "we saved Europe" and not "we assisted Europe".  Again, don't try the high moral ground act, I'm not denying Britain's involvement and importance in WWII.

I think Brexit has gotten to your head.

The British, brave Aussies, tougher than nails Canadians and all the other allies must have breathed a massive sigh of relief at the news the might of America would be coming to there aid and will be ever grateful they did, if we'd lost the "Battle of Britain" (the most important of WW2) the war would have been lost, no north Atlantic fleet arming and feeding Russia, No Royal navy keeping the high seas open, no RAF attacking the German war machine, no desert rats disrupting fuel supplies, the might of the German war machine would have been unstoppable they'd have had Nuclear missiles before America, do you know about any of the sometimes suicidal raids?  The St Nazaire Raid or Operation Chariot,  Operation Biting, also known as the Bruneval Raid where they captured a German radar station and it's operator bringing it back to Britain.

[Black Monk]

Apparently, these are the favourite brands of the Leave majority:

1. HP Sauce
2. Bisto
3. ITV News
4. The Health Lottery
5. Birds Eye
6. Iceland
7. Sky News
8. Cathedral City
9. PG Tips
10. Richmond sausages

And these are the favourite brands of the Remain minority:

1. BBC.co.uk
2. BBC iPlayer
3. Instagram
4. London Underground
5. Spotify
6. Airbnb
7. LinkedIn
8. Virgin Trains
9. Twitter
10. EasyJet

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36970535

Edited August 10, 2016 by Black Monk

[SHaYap]

I wonder where and which side of the lists the Leicester City FC Fans figure in the scheme of things ?

~

[Black Monk]

3 hours ago, third_eye said:

I wonder where and which side of the lists the Leicester City FC Fans figure in the scheme of things ?

~

Remainers don't like football. It's too much of a white working class sport for their liking.

[Black Monk]

 

Quote

 

20 hours ago, Black Red Devil said

Are you seriously suggesting that if the Americans didn't enter WWII Britain alone would have saved Europe from the Germans??

 

Britain would have been the Krauts on her own.

[Black Monk]

4 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

if we'd lost the "Battle of Britain" (the most important of WW2) the war would have been lost

But we didn't lose it. We won. On our own.

[stevewinn]

On 8/8/2016 at 6:10 AM, Black Red Devil said:

Nothing wrong with being British but you should thank the Japanese they decided to bomb Pearl Harbor otherwise you'd be marching the Goose Step around Piccadilly Circus by now.

My rely

On 8/8/2016 at 0:39 PM, stevewinn said:

Hang on when did Pearl Harbour happen? 1941. We stood up to Hitler in September 1939, and with the fall of Europe we found ourselves alone. Three times Hitler offered Britain a peace agreement in which Germany would guarantee Britain and its empire in return for our neutrality Three times we Said NO. - all this time fighting in Europe, North Africa and on the Seas and Oceans. and in the meantime we were getting the **** bombed out of us. As for invasion and Goose stepping  - Operation Sea lion which was the name for Hitler's invasion of Britain. Thanks to the British Spirit of not being a conquered people for a thousand years we fought tooth and nail in the now famous Victory in the Battle of Britain in the summer of 1940 - with winter approaching Hitler postponed Operation Sea lion indefinitely. So Britain safe from Invasion, Hitler turned his attention to invading Russia the following summer, June of 1941. - So, look at the dates, start of the war 1939, Battle of Britain - Invasion defeated 1940, Hitler attacks Russia June 1941. Japanese Attack Pearl Harbour December 1941. So, explain exactly why would we thank the Japanese for preventing Britain getting invaded? 

Europeans capitulated and we Great Britain yet again from Waterloo, to Mons/Somme, to D-day/Normandy, yet again when push came to shove WE put everything on the line to rid Europe of German aggression for the second time in 21 years, and liberate Europe once more. -

Pearl Harbour seen Britain once again thrust into the thick of it, not only fighting here at home in Northern, and Southern Europe, North Africa,  but also in the Far East, India, Malaya, Burma, Singapore, dragging the British empire and Royal Navy into battles to protect such territories as Australia. 

 

On 8/8/2016 at 3:07 PM, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

I agree.  Though the bombing of Pearl Harbor was an awfully tragic and dastardly action, it opened the floodgates...the US was now involved and the victory for the Allies and the Soviet Union was clearly cemented from that point on.  Britain would not have fallen to the Germans if the US did not enter the war, but the war against them would have lasted a bit longer at least.

Well, not by yourselves, and not without help.  But I do recognize and respect the hard work of the British during the War.

 

On 8/8/2016 at 6:54 PM, stevewinn said:

I agree it was a team effort by all concerned. there would have been no VE day without the USA in the same way there wouldn't have be a VE day without the Russians. But apparently and according to Black Red Devil we have to thank the Japanese who prevented us from being Invaded and occupied. Even though we prevented that from happening the year before Pearl Harbour. 

 

After my reply to Thorvir Hrothgaard. (Bold) you then go on to say in the post below (bold) and contains the mistake whereby you attribute "and we are sick of helping Europe out since waterloo" to me which was by another poster. does the reply above sound like i was imply Britain saved Europe and even saved the world . No is the answer.

On 8/9/2016 at 6:42 AM, Black Red Devil said:

It's such arrogance (below) that's laughable and it seems to imply Britain saved Europe, almost annoyingly and reluctantly.  While your post seems to suggest that Britain even saved the world.  

"and we are sick of helping out Europe since Waterloo"

For starters, if the Prussians didn't turn up on time at Waterloo, Wellington would have lost the battle.  So Europeans can also thank the Eastern Germans for "helping them out".

We'll never know, but for what it's worth, I'm pretty certain Britain would have eventually fallen to the Germans.  Does that mean that I'm claiming that Britain didn't kick a$$ in the Battle of Britain?  No.  The heroics of the RAF pilots are well recognised.  Also the resistance and supply from the British population were a deciding factor in the battle.  But Hitler turned his attention to Russia because the Russians just got their butts kicked by Finland and Summer was approaching, the best time for a ground invasion.  He obviously thought the Russians were easy meat and he would have Blitzkrieged he's way to Moscow in no time (and almost did) like he did with France earlier and then come back to Britain later.  The Russians kicked him back into place so Europeans can also thank the Russians. 

In the mean time, Americans were kicking butt in the Pacific keeping a dangerous ally away from joining German Forces on more fronts.  Not until 1944 did the Allies go on the offensive against the Axis on the Western Front while on the Eastern Front the Germans were busy fighting the Russians.  Until then it was pretty stagnant and the Germans were still occupying most of Europe.  The first offensive invasion was in Sicily with American and Canadian troops joining British troops. Until Americans started sending heavy divisions into Europe Britain was mainly on the defensive.

So while I'm not denying Britain had a heavy role to play in WWII, they wouldn't have saved themselves in WWII if it wasn't for the help of others, including the various resistance movements.

 

 

22 hours ago, stevewinn said:

I will start off from the phrase "and we are sick of Helping out Europe since Waterloo" - twice you have attributed this to me, I let it go once because obviously you got me confused with another poster. But its clear now with continued reference that you are indeed confusing me with another poster. -  So you'll have to take that up with them.

But to keep you on the hook, you originally posted we should thank the Japanese who prevented the invasion of the Great Britain. I have asked you to explain exactly what you was referring to when the planned invasion of Britain was Defeated in the Battle of Britain which was a year before Pearl Harbour. seeing how you like text books maybe you should refer to the part where it states Operation Sea lion was postponed indefinitely. Hitler opening up a second front put pay to the idea of another invasion. So your original argument is conjecture. 

Clearly losing that argument now you want to lead me down the path of am i suggesting Britain kicked back the Germans in the East, which is silly talk on your part, its just an attempt by you  expand the post to give yourself some manoeuvring room or wriggle room as i like to call it.

As for you continually pushing the notion i think the UK won the War alone and saved the World - please give me some credit, only a complete moron would push such a idea. after all the clue is in the name a World War. I hardly think one nation can win a world War alone when clearly their are some many other Nations involved.

in answer to your first sentence " Are you seriously suggesting that if the Americans didn't enter WWII Britain alone would have saved Europe from the Germans?? " Have i stated that no i didn't, if you cast your mind back you was making false statements talking about the invasion of Britain. Without all the allies combined effort is what freed Europe,  (like ive said and quoted before and evidently you never read) But remember this when the Fall of France happened it was Britain and her Commonwealth which faced Germany and Italy alone. in what Generall Weygand called "the Battle of France is over" and Churchil used in his famous speech... the Battle of Britain is about to begin. 

So to answer your hypothetical of Germany eventually and successfully invading Great Britain. they couldn't do it at the height of their power in 1940 nothing to suggest they'd succeed at a later date, especially with Britain's growing confidence and strength in the air following the Victory in the Battle of Britain.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Good try mate.  I'm not losing any argument here because you're the one that entered the scene when I was addressing a post from Spud.  My point with Spud was about that phrase "and we are sick of Helping out Europe since Waterloo".  You came on top of my post giving examples of how Britain won the Battle of Britain and fought on various fronts etc. etc..  There and there you took over from Spud's arrogance, supporting his idea, that Britain saved Europe.  Now I've repeated it many times, Britain did contribute largely to the defeat of the Axis, but that wasn't Spud's way of putting it and that's what you inherited when you took on his role of defending that idea.  So explain to me how I'm confusing you with him and how am I diverting the argument when I'm simply listing examples (i.e Eastern Front) of what he/you believe in when he made the statement, you supported, that Britain saved Europe (intended as on their own!!)? 

Secondly, you think you have me on the hook because I mentioned the Japanese (evident to everybody I was referring to the bombing of Pearl Harbor).  Over several posts I've made it clear what I was alluding to, the entry of the Americans into the scene and how that changed the course of the war.  While you're convinced you have me against the ropes I'm baffled to understand why you keep alluding to it and what you're on about. 

The bombing of Pearl Harbour wasn't meant to be in recognition of the vile act by the Japanese, it was tongue in cheek to suggest it pushed the US into war quicker.  Maybe a bad example considering all the lives lost, but facts are facts and that's what actually happened.  This paragraph wasn't specifically directed towards you but to those that like to throw jibes from the sidelines without addressing my posts directly.

You recognise the notion that one single nation could not have won the war alone and you state it would be moronic to believe so, yet I haven't seen you rebuke Spud's statement and in actual fact, I can see that you gave it a "like".  On top of that it seems to be supported by your last paragraph which is just hypothetical as much as my claim.  But my claim is supported by the fact that the Germans got squashed back by Russians on the Eastern Front and Britain started the offensive against the Germans ONLY with the support of US Infantry and Airborne Divisions together with various Canadian, Polish, Australian, New Zealand Divisions, French resistance etc. on the Western Front.  I'm b*****ed to understand how Britain in the long run would have managed to resist the Germans and save Europe without the help they got but hey, as long as you keep on convincing yourself that's the most important thing.

 

Good try mate? I think we need to have a thread re-wind just to remind you of what you actually said. i've quoted multiple posts and highlight in Bold the statements you wrongly made. -

My reply to your last post.

good try mate good try you say, yet its only you who is ducking and diving, I'll remind you I quoted you directly on your statement of "we should thank the Japanese for pearl harbour otherwise (Britain) would be goose stepping in piccadilly circus" everything i have written in reply has been to highlight how wrong that statement was. regardless of anything else that was the crux of the matter. you told me to address History books etc.. well my friend it is you who is need of a good History lesson. but to be fair i think you've seen the error but pride comes before and fall.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by stevewinn

[Space Commander Travis]

 

4 hours ago, Black Monk said:

Britain would have been the Krauts on her own.

Oh lord, welcome Mr. Fawlty, we've been expecting you. 

 

[hetrodoxly]

7 hours ago, Black Monk said:

But we didn't lose it. We won. On our own.

We did win and on our own and the world would have been dominated by Germany and Japan if we hadn't, if my post made it sound otherwise it wasn't intentional, 

[Thorvir]

16 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

We did win and on our own and the world would have been dominated by Germany and Japan if we hadn't, if my post made it sound otherwise it wasn't intentional, 

Well, no.  You defended the British Isles on your own (with some help from those further west), and that was an incredible thing and I am still proud of my British fellows of yesteryear for that feat!  Though, honestly, Germany had no chance of invading successfully with the Home Fleet sitting watch over things. Beating the Royal Air Force would have been one thing, beating the Royal Navy was an impossibility.

But, if you had fallen, the world would not have been dominated by Germany and Japan--heck, losing the British mainland might not even have meant the loss of the rest of the British Empire.  The bad guys would have still been beaten...you're forgetting about the USA and USSR.  We would have liberated Britain and moved on to finish off Germany along with the Soviets.

Japan was done as soon as it dragged the US into the war.  Germany was done as soon as they attacked the USSR.  Those two things are absolutes.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[hetrodoxly]

23 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Well, no.  You defended the British Isles on your own (with some help from those further west), and that was an incredible thing and I am still proud of my British fellows of yesteryear for that feat!  Though, honestly, Germany had no chance of invading successfully with the Home Fleet sitting watch over things. Beating the Royal Air Force would have been one thing, beating the Royal Navy was an impossibility.

But, if you had fallen, the world would not have been dominated by Germany and Japan--heck, losing the British mainland might not even have meant the loss of the rest of the British Empire.  The bad guys would have still been beaten...you're forgetting about the USA and USSR.  We would have liberated Britain and moved on to finish off Germany along with the Soviets.

Japan was done as soon as it dragged the US into the war.  Germany was done as soon as they attacked the USSR.  Those two things are absolutes.

I refer you back to my first post.

[Thorvir]

1 minute ago, hetrodoxly said:

I refer you back to my first post.

And I refer you back to my post #312, in response to your post #311.  

Don't fight me on this.  I did nothing but post pure accurate facts.  We're on the same side of this WWII thing.

[hetrodoxly]

51 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

And I refer you back to my post #312, in response to your post #311.  

Don't fight me on this.  I did nothing but post pure accurate facts.  We're on the same side of this WWII thing.

Post 311 is relevant to post 308 to answer your questions go to post 303.

[Thorvir]

Sigh.  The only relevant post to my post was the one I responded to.  That's it.

No more numbers.  Back to the topic at hand.

[Spaceisgreat]

The o.p must be dillusional. To not add the fact that we are being governed by some dictator in the shadows and gives our rights to the highest bidder you must be dillusional, do you know what's happening now all over Europe? More European countries want out! Theresa may won't even consider invoking article 50 and is trying to make excuses the Scotts had there say they are in the boat with us wherever it sails we want out. Also I'd like to add that any of the islamaphobia nonsense is not the worry on British minds its the islamification that is being forced upon us due to our gutless government not sorting out the issues at hand. Did you know that David Cameron's sister is a Muslim? He is probably one too and now we have a Muslim mayor who is actually putting laws in place for the slow islamification of London which will slowly spread. Why don't you grow some guts and actually look at the situation we are soon going to be faced with. Muslims are for the majority the victims of a bullying close nit society who murder and mame those who leave the cult. We need to help those who no longer want Islam in there life and tell the remaining scumbags to get out.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Spaceisgreat

[spartan max2]

15 hours ago, Black Monk said:

Apparently, these are the favourite brands of the Leave majority:

1. HP Sauce
2. Bisto
3. ITV News
4. The Health Lottery
5. Birds Eye
6. Iceland
7. Sky News
8. Cathedral City
9. PG Tips
10. Richmond sausages

And these are the favourite brands of the Remain minority:

1. BBC.co.uk
2. BBC iPlayer
3. Instagram
4. London Underground
5. Spotify
6. Airbnb
7. LinkedIn
8. Virgin Trains
9. Twitter
10. EasyJet

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36970535

According to my brand preferences I'm a remain haha

[Spaceisgreat]

People from other countries go into shock when they are told we have to pay for the privilege of watching TV, BBC just wants more people over here so they can illegally tax them too lol. 

[Space Commander Travis]

7 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

We did win and on our own and the world would have been dominated by Germany and Japan if we hadn't, if my post made it sound otherwise it wasn't intentional, 

we did win? Avoiding being defeated is a bit different from winning, and Adolf had plenty of other ambition at the end of 1940, he was hardly beaten. I'm sure you're not trying to argue that the US and USSR didn 't contribute to the final defeat of Germany at all.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Grand Moff Tarkin

[Space Commander Travis]

6 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

And I refer you back to my post #312, in response to your post #311.  

 

 

5 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Post 311 is relevant to post 308 to answer your questions go to post 303.

This is getting like one of those really complicated mathematics questions. 

[hetrodoxly]

5 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Sigh.  The only relevant post to my post was the one I responded to.  That's it.

No more numbers.  Back to the topic at hand.

My answer to that is the same, If we'd lost the "Battle of Britain" (the most important of WW2) the war would have been lost, no north Atlantic fleet arming and feeding Russia, No Royal navy keeping the high seas open, no RAF attacking the German war machine, no desert rats disrupting fuel supplies, the might of the German war machine would have been unstoppable they'd have had Nuclear missiles before America, do you know about any of the sometimes suicidal raids?  The St Nazaire Raid or Operation Chariot, Operation Biting, also known as the Bruneval Raid where they captured a German radar station and it's operator bringing it back to Britain.

[hetrodoxly]

2 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

we did win? Avoiding being defeated is a bit different from winning, and Adolf had plenty of other ambition at the end of 1940, he was hardly beaten. I'm sure you're not trying to argue that the US and USSR didn 't contribute to the final defeat of Germany at all.

We won the 'Battle of Britain' what else can you call it? it wasn't a draw, where have i even hinted "US and USSR didn 't contribute to the final defeat of Germany at all" what i have said is if we'd lost the battle of Britain the war would have probably been lost, for the details see the above post.

Churchill says it better than me (and everyone else)

" Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"

Edited August 11, 2016 by hetrodoxly

[Black Red Devil]

17 hours ago, stevewinn said:

My rely

Good try mate? I think we need to have a thread re-wind just to remind you of what you actually said. i've quoted multiple posts and highlight in Bold the statements you wrongly made. -

My reply to your last post.

good try mate good try you say, yet its only you who is ducking and diving, I'll remind you I quoted you directly on your statement of "we should thank the Japanese for pearl harbour otherwise (Britain) would be goose stepping in piccadilly circus" everything i have written in reply has been to highlight how wrong that statement was. regardless of anything else that was the crux of the matter. you told me to address History books etc.. well my friend it is you who is need of a good History lesson. but to be fair i think you've seen the error but pride comes before and fall.

 

Ah, you are funny my friend.  You overwhelm and submerge me with all these quotes insisting and trying to prove that I'm quoting you incorrectly yet in your first quote you showed, you replied this,

Europeans capitulated and we Great Britain yet again from Waterloo, to Mons/Somme, to D-day/Normandy, yet again when push came to shove WE put everything on the line to rid Europe of German aggression for the second time in 21 years, and liberate Europe once more.

If that's not in support of Spud's statement I don't know what is.  So, you take over his claim and try to play innocent when confronted and then you try to counterattack by pinning me on a statement I made that even the blind, death and dumb know what I was referring to and finally you try to persuade me that I'm ducking and diving.  LOL, c'mon mate, you're better than this. 

Just admit that you believe Britain would have won the war against the Germans on it's own, as the other Brexiters such as Black Monk, Hetrodoxly and Spud have done and now that you guys have liberated yourself from the "iron ball wrapped around your ankle" called the EU, you believe Great Britain will be a great Empire again and the Europeans will come knocking on your door begging for help as you believe they've always done.   No need for prolonged to and fro replies, just say "yes, I believe it".  No use hiding behind excuses such as Brussels, immigration, trade agreements etc.  It was all about that British sense of superiority over the Continentals. Admit it.

I've been very critical of US Foreign Policies in recent times but you can't deny the facts and numbers of the past and if it wasn't for them during WWII we'd (Aussies and New Zealanders) be using chopsticks instead of forks by now and you guys would be eating Wurstels and Sauerkraut for dinner tonight.  You can overlook this as much as you want but these are the true facts and this isn't being disrespectful towards the heroic British that fought and fell during WWII, no matter how you try to twist my point morally.  This isn't denying that you won the battle but you wouldn't have won the war if it wasn't for others.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Black Red Devil

[Black Red Devil]

19 hours ago, Black Monk said:

 

Britain would have been the Krauts on her own.

You got that right.  Britain would have been the Krauts.