Brexit

[alibongo]

And more (because it is funny and true)http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/uniting-behind-brexit-a-bit-hard-if-you-think-its-****-20170117120370:

Quote

Uniting behind Brexit a bit hard if you think it's ****

COMING together’ to make a success of Brexit is difficult if you believe it is a heap of ****, it has been claimed.

Despite pleas from ministers, many Britons are finding it hard to believe in something they do not believe in.

Susan Traherne said: “I’ve always believed that Europeans are our friends with whom we no longer want to have wars. So it’s hard to change to seeing them as potentially hostile weirdos whose food is poisonous.

“I see the pound plummet, major employers preparing to leave and the imminent break-up of the UK and my heart sinks when they say it should be rising.

“It’s just a bit difficult reversing all your beliefs completely, that’s all. I bet it’d be the same for Brexiters if it had gone the other way.” 

Brexiter Wayne Hayes said: “No, if we’d lost the referendum I would have turned my back on 20 years of calling it the EUSSR and pushed for much closer integration. 

“Completely. 100 per cent.” 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by alibongo

[Black Monk]

17 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

This was threatened before the vote and none of it came true so why would we change our minds now? have you heard any Brexiteers on here saying they regret it.

Too much wishful thinking from the Remoaners and not much reality.

[hetrodoxly]

10 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

"None of it came true." Are you serious? 

Very, none of it came true.

[Essan]

More bad news.  Obviously, as a direct consequence of Brexit, the UK is "only" the 3rd best country in the world to live in.  Behind Canada and Switzerland. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/best-countries-world-switzerland-canada-britain-germany.html?_r=0

[Frank Merton]

17 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Very, none of it came true.

You missed the point; give it all time.  

The problem with history is we never know what would have happened if things had gone differently, and can only make reasonable guesses.  That Britain would be much better off in Europe than otherwise seems obvious to thinking people, but there are obviously many who see it otherwise.

[Frank Merton]

16 hours ago, Essan said:

More bad news.  Obviously, as a direct consequence of Brexit, the UK is "only" the 3rd best country in the world to live in.  Behind Canada and Switzerland. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/best-countries-world-switzerland-canada-britain-germany.html?_r=0

The best country to live in is Cambodia, which is why I'm here.  It is not police dominated like Vietnam, the air is clean and the traffic polite and sparse, the scenery beautiful, the dry season is short and the rest of the time the climate is wonderful, the people are friendly and the language is difficult but at least not tonal nor heavily inflected, the health care is first rate and affordable, the cuisine delightful, crime is vanishingly small and there are no guns anywhere (even farmers manage fine without them).  There are scams, but they are entertaining rather than venal, and don't cost much even if you are naive, and there is never any threat of violence behind them.

Typical experience:  I'm sitting alone fairly late at night.  A middle aged man pulls up on a motorbike, "you want some Buddha" (marijuana or sometimes oral heroine).  No thanks.  You want massage?  No thanks. OK, nice talking to you, good bye.

Just stay out of the big cities, but I guess that rule applies no matter where you are.  The air there is not so good and the traffic is also not so good (although even in Phnom Penh people drive politely, but of course only in the big cities can you get Western food and people speak English, if you are that type of tourist.  

[alibongo]

20 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

The best country to live in is Cambodia, which is why I'm here.  It is not police dominated like Vietnam, the air is clean and the traffic polite and sparse, the scenery beautiful, the dry season is short and the rest of the time the climate is wonderful, the people are friendly and the language is difficult but at least not tonal nor heavily inflected, the health care is first rate and affordable, the cuisine delightful, crime is vanishingly small and there are no guns anywhere (even farmers manage fine without them).  There are scams, but they are entertaining rather than venal, and don't cost much even if you are naive, and there is never any threat of violence behind them.

Typical experience:  I'm sitting alone fairly late at night.  A middle aged man pulls up on a motorbike, "you want some Buddha" (marijuana or sometimes oral heroine).  No thanks.  You want massage?  No thanks. OK, nice talking to you, good bye.

Just stay out of the big cities, but I guess that rule applies no matter where you are.  The air there is not so good and the traffic is also not so good (although even in Phnom Penh people drive politely, but of course only in the big cities can you get Western food and people speak English, if you are that type of tourist.  

Not a million miles away from my rural village in Dorset.

No crime, cricket on Sundays, we all own our own houses, (most are detached),when the outside word intrudes with plans to build new houses, for example, we just up arms and drive them away.

Little England, and it is idyllic.

All we need is to reverse Brexit and life will be perfect.

[Frank Merton]

11 minutes ago, alibongo said:

Not a million miles away from my rural village in Dorset.

No crime, cricket on Sundays, we all own our own houses, (most are detached),when the outside word intrudes with plans to build new houses, for example, we just up arms and drive them away.

Little England, and it is idyllic.

All we need is to reverse Brexit and life will be perfect.

Most Cambodians also own their own houses and land (some pretty primitive but things getting better) (although of course I am renting -- what I did was make a deal that I could stay the rest of my life if I build one).  They have a tendency to get in bad debt borrowing for seed money and then when crops fail (happened last year for the first time in ages, I think climate change as they are now switching from rice to corn -- farmers aren't dumb).  The government stepped in and no one lost their homes, but what they did varied case by case.  It may be that the switch to corn is being encouraged by the government since rice cultivation is a major source of greenhouse gases, but I find it hard to believe any government would be so intelligent.

[alibongo]

I realise I am old, and old fashioned, and many people prefer the excitement of living in large cities and prefer to rent rather than to buy their homes as it gives them flexibility, and even prefer short term-jobs rather than the old-fashioned kind with pensions.

We'll remain a  little back-water of the way it used to be.

Edited March 9, 2017 by alibongo

[Frank Merton]

12 minutes ago, alibongo said:

I realise I am old, and old fashioned, and many people prefer the excitement of living in large cities and prefer to rent rather than to buy their homes as it gives them flexibility, and even prefer short term-jobs rather than the old-fashioned kind with pensions.

We'll remain a  little back-water of the way it used to be.

To an extent they are right.  Ownership is a golden chain around your neck, or maybe even golden handcuffs.  In this age where governments sometimes impose taxes and regulations without caring about the effects on the people involved, ownership is risky and not the assurance it use to be.  Still, renting stinks -- you can't make changes you want to make and have to put up with sometimes silly rules.

Condos are a happy in-between, and I have a Condo near Seattle, Wash, US, although I haven't been there in over a year.  I think in the dry season coming up I may go there for a few months, if Trump doesn't decide to start banning all foreigners, visa or not.  It's been at least ten years since I last was in Europe, and don't know if I could manage it now since it is such a walking place.  Who knows -- I might end up wandering around Dorset -- sounds good.  Keep your eyes open for an elderly Asian fat man in a business suit.

 

[hetrodoxly]

4 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

You missed the point; give it all time.  

The problem with history is we never know what would have happened if things had gone differently, and can only make reasonable guesses.  That Britain would be much better off in Europe than otherwise seems obvious to thinking people, but there are obviously many who see it otherwise.

It wasn't me making predictions. 

[Black Monk]

21 hours ago, Essan said:

More bad news.  Obviously, as a direct consequence of Brexit, the UK is "only" the 3rd best country in the world to live in.  Behind Canada and Switzerland. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/world/best-countries-world-switzerland-canada-britain-germany.html?_r=0

So the three best countries in the world in which to live in are non-EU countries.

[Black Monk]

4 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

The best country to live in is Cambodia

A non-EU country.

[Frank Merton]

57 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

A non-EU country.

I should say I like parts of Cambodia, and it is a beautiful country, but I've been almost everywhere and there are very few countries that don't meet that standard, including all the EU countries.  If I could figure out a way to make my health care affordable (my health problems are not insignificant), I would probably opt for the States -- the West Coast or the Rocky Mountains or Boston I suppose -- but the drug and legal situation there has made health care outrageous -- as witness by the fact that few can afford it, and the government can't either.  They will never get that fixed until they bring the drug companies and the lawyers and a few corporate medical supply companies under control.

[+DieChecker]

5 hours ago, alibongo said:

We'll remain a  little back-water of the way it used to be.

There are worse things...

[alibongo]

Richard Dawkins expresses intelligent and well-balanced views on Brexit. I urge people to view this with an open mind:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39218108

Edited March 10, 2017 by alibongo

[Space Commander Travis]

22 minutes ago, alibongo said:

Richard Dawkins expresses intelligent and well-balanced views on Brexit. I urge people to view this with an open mind:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39218108

i'm going to guess that he agrees with you, then, ali?

[alibongo]

1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

i'm going to guess that he agrees with you, then, ali?

Don't guess, watch it, it is quite short.

Since we both have brains  the size of small planets, yes, we are in agreement.

 

[Space Commander Travis]

Actually he does make a fair point about how a 2/3 majority would have been preferable for such a big decision, yes, but still a good trace of the good old-fashioned intellectual arrogance . "An ignorant and misled publick." If only they'd consulted all-purpose geniuses, like him. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[alibongo]

27 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Actually he does make a fair point about how a 2/3 majority would have been preferable for such a big decision, yes, but still a good trace of the good old-fashioned intellectual arrogance . "An ignorant and misled publick." If only they'd consulted all-purpose geniuses, like him. 

I think if the Remainers did not keep referring to Brexiteers being ignorant, misled, un-educated, under-funded, etc., the sides would be less entrenched.

[+DieChecker]

4 hours ago, alibongo said:

Richard Dawkins expresses intelligent and well-balanced views on Brexit. I urge people to view this with an open mind:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39218108

Hummm... Yes. I don't listen long to people who are openly populist when it serves their desires, and then when the population goes against their elitist desires, they start lamenting the state of the current election/voting laws, and that they should be repealed/changed. And that it is all due to the truly ignorant savages that voted against the way the elitist person wanted them to vote.

I viewed it with an open mind, and I was insulted by his elitism.

This is exactly what we've seen from the elitist Left here in the US when Clinton lost the election. Here too there was shouts that the voting laws need to be changed, and that it was only by the votes of the supremely ignorant that Trump was elected. Such ravings show who the truly ignorant are, IMHO.

Edited March 10, 2017 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

What I find interesting is that England and Wales had pretty high levels of Leave, and Scotland and N Ireland had very high levels of Remain. Actually the N Ireland vote doesn't surprise me, but the Scottish vote does. I thought those guys were independent minded, not sycophants of big government?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

Quote

England voted for Brexit, by 53.4% to 46.6%. Wales also voted for Brexit, with Leave getting 52.5% of the vote and Remain 47.5%. Scotland and Northern Ireland both backed staying in the EU. Scotland backed Remain by 62% to 38%, while 55.8% in Northern Ireland voted Remain and 44.2% Leave.

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by DieChecker

[alibongo]

26 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Hummm... Yes. I don't listen long to people who are openly populist when it serves their desires, and then when the population goes against their elitist desires, they start lamenting the state of the current election/voting laws, and that they should be repealed/changed. And that it is all due to the truly ignorant savages that voted against the way the elitist person wanted them to vote.

I viewed it with an open mind, and I was insulted by his elitism.

This is exactly what we've seen from the elitist Left here in the US when Clinton lost the election. Here too there was shouts that the voting laws need to be changed, and that it was only by the votes of the supremely ignorant that Trump was elected. Such ravings show who the truly ignorant are, IMHO.

That is precisely my point in my last post.

The Remainers come across as arrogant and condescending.

Remainers would make a better case if they acknowledged the Brexiters had made a considered judgement, albeit a foolhardy one.

[RoofGardener]

On 3/7/2017 at 7:25 AM, alibongo said:

New poll suggests majority would rather stay in EU than leave on Theresa May's terms:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-theresa-may-plan-leave-eu-no-plan-uk-public-oppose-prime-minister-a7614526.html

This view is likely to harden as austerity starts to bite, I imagine.

That's not really what the poll says though, is it Alibongo ?

The poll indicates that most Britons would like to remain, or re-negotiate - if parliament rejects the governments brexit deal .

25% said "to hell with it... drop to WTO rules" (the Prime Ministers position)

27% said "ooops... lets re-negotiate"

14% said " Ooooh... lets just stay in the EU, but try and get better terms"

15% said "Ooooh... lets just throw the towel in, and beg permission to go back into the EU under the old terms"

and 19% said ""تقديم لإرادة الله "

So - rather curiously - 52% wanted to continue leaving the EU

[Essan]

3 hours ago, alibongo said:

I think if the Remainers did not keep referring to Brexiteers being ignorant, misled, un-educated, under-funded, etc., the sides would be less entrenched.

Especially when many of those who voted to leave the EU are very well educated, intelligent, and have good jobs and incomes.   Unlike some ignorant remainers whom, in my experience,  watch rather a lot of TV and do whatever they are told.  But that's by the by ....