Brexit

[bee]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

You know bee... once the genie left the brexit bottle it will be near impossible to push it back in. Britain is now a divided nation that wants different things. 

.

If that's the reality then that's the reality - Britain isn't the only divided nation - the cracks are opening up all over Europe
and of course in the US as well -

I do think that the SNP will struggle to take Scotland out of the UK using possible EU membership as the leverage -

. 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, bee said:

.

If that's the reality then that's the reality - Britain isn't the only divided nation - the cracks are opening up all over Europe
and of course in the US as well -

I do think that the SNP will struggle to take Scotland out of the UK using possible EU membership as the leverage -

. 

Of course. The regionalisation of Europe is a very real problem for the incumbents. France and Spain will also be decimated they leave Europe. A united Europe is a great deterrent for nationalism. I think Scotland will be worse off but nationalism isn't always driven by logic. 

[Grey Area]

The Scotland situation has nothing to do with Brexit.  A referendum was held over Scottish independence before Brexit, and now it is simply being used to reignite the drive for independence.

I have never really understood the Scottish drive for independence.  Scotland has been fully integrated in the UK for centuries, it has more often than not sat on the many seats of power that the empire and the commonwealth have had to offer, and not so long ago we had a Scottish Prime Minister, so I just don't get why independence for Scotland is so important, in many cases they have led the UK over the years and played a gigantic role in shaping its law and policy.

I will say one thing, and it may sound a little silly, but I do think Mel Gibson and Braveheart has a lot to answer for in instilling a really unhealthy sense of patriotism in Scotland.  Don't get me wrong, I am all for having Pride in your homeland.

 

[bee]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

Of course. The regionalisation of Europe is a very real problem for the incumbents. France and Spain will also be decimated they leave Europe. A united Europe is a great deterrent for nationalism. I think Scotland will be worse off but nationalism isn't always driven by logic. 

.

you know I think that many think of the EU and political / economic globalization in general, as moving towards a kind of socialist utopia -

but I think the reality would be an eventual Orwellian type global dictatorship -

The bigger the organization the less the influence and power of the individual citizen - basically - 

.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, bee said:

.

you know I think that many think of the EU and political / economic globalization in general, as moving towards a kind of socialist utopia -

but I think the reality would be an eventual Orwellian type global dictatorship -

The bigger the organization the less the influence and power of the individual citizen - basically - 

.

Its already happening and there is just no way to stop it other than destroying the entire monetary system. I read an earlier post that suggest that of all the economic and political indicators for an economy it seems that quality of life is missing. It certainly is the case when i look around. I am asset rich and yet i don't seem to be living better than my parents who did alot more with less. Im not alone.

[Unusual Tournament]

7 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

The Scotland situation has nothing to do with Brexit.  A referendum was held over Scottish independence before Brexit, and now it is simply being used to reignite the drive for independence.

I have never really understood the Scottish drive for independence.  Scotland has been fully integrated in the UK for centuries, it has more often than not sat on the many seats of power that the empire and the commonwealth have had to offer, and not so long ago we had a Scottish Prime Minister, so I just don't get why independence for Scotland is so important, in many cases they have led the UK over the years and played a gigantic role in shaping its law and policy.

I will say one thing, and it may sound a little silly, but I do think Mel Gibson and Braveheart has a lot to answer for in instilling a really unhealthy sense of patriotism in Scotland.  Don't get me wrong, I am all for having Pride in your homeland.

 

How can you say that when 63% in Scotland voted leave? The majority don't wanna live in an independent UK. 

[bee]

Just now, Grey Area said:

The Scotland situation has nothing to do with Brexit.  A referendum was held over Scottish independence before Brexit, and now it is simply being used to reignite the drive for independence.

I have never really understood the Scottish drive for independence.  Scotland has been fully integrated in the UK for centuries, it has more often than not sat on the many seats of power that the empire and the commonwealth have had to offer, and not so long ago we had a Scottish Prime Minister, so I just don't get why independence for Scotland is so important, in many cases they have led the UK over the years and played a gigantic role in shaping its law and policy.

I will say one thing, and it may sound a little silly, but I do think Mel Gibson and Braveheart has a lot to answer for in instilling a really unhealthy sense of patriotism in Scotland.  Don't get me wrong, I am all for having Pride in your homeland.

 

.

Good points --- 

and the mixed message about patriotism (nationalism) and using Brexit as leverage to aspire to  become even less independent
in the EU - will hopefully  see off the next referendum in favour of staying in the UK -

.

[bee]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

Its already happening and there is just no way to stop it other than destroying the entire monetary system. I read an earlier post that suggest that of all the economic and political indicators for an economy it seems that quality of life is missing. It certainly is the case when i look around. I am asset rich and yet i don't seem to be living better than my parents who did alot more with less. Im not alone.

.

I have to go now - but I will have a think about that ^^^  

.

[bee]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

How can you say that when 63% in Scotland voted leave? The majority don't wanna live in an independent UK. 

.

but before I go --- do you mean....voted to remain..?...

if so... I think voting to remain in the EU as a member of the UK .. is a different kettle of fish to going it alone and seeking
EU membership as an independent Scotland -- that's a harder road - 

.

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, bee said:

.

but before I go --- do you mean....voted to remain..?...

if so... I think voting to remain in the EU as a member of the UK .. is a different kettle of fish to going it alone and seeking
EU membership as an independent Scotland -- that's a harder road - 

.

Yes i do. Confuse myself all the time. Its who i am i guess. Not much of a fish stew when you consider it wasn't that long ago that Scotland had another vote.It failed of course. But my point is that with this add impetus maybe it might go over the line and if it doesn't then there must surely be more of an incentive to stay than just for the sake of it. End of day, whether Scotland stays or leaves it will the next day after the proposed new referendum have more powers. That has to lead somewhere and not some dead end.

[stevewinn]

50 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

You know bee... once the genie left the brexit bottle it will be near impossible to push it back in. Britain is now a divided nation that wants different things. 

Britain is a divided Nation, How so, The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly to Remain part of the United Kingdom. that same United Kingdom voted to Leave in the EU referendum. 

Don't be fooled into believing the SNP speak for the whole of Scotland. Nicola Strugeon is much like yourself anti-English. nothing more nothing less. - The SNP want to drive up a hatred amongst our people hoping that will lead to a split. whenever i hear the SNP speak in their divide and rule tone.....I  happily remind myself the SNP dont speak for the Scottish people as a whole, and the SNP being the amateurs they are will bang the drum of independence every time they mess up domestic policy. - Give the SNP time and the Scottish people will increasing see they are leading them down the garden path.

Key date: 29th March. EU Withdrawal Bill.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by stevewinn

[Unusual Tournament]

10 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Britain is a divided Nation, How so, The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly to Remain part of the United Kingdom. that same United Kingdom voted to Leave in the EU referendum. 

Don't be fooled into believing the SNP speak for the whole of Scotland. Nicola Strugeon is much like yourself anti-English. nothing more nothing less. - The SNP want to drive up a hatred amongst our people hoping that will lead to a split. whenever i hear the SNP speak in their divide and rule tone.....I  happily remind myself the SNP dont speak for the Scottish people as a whole, and the SNP being the amateurs they are will bang the drum of independence every time they mess up domestic policy. - Give the SNP time and the Scottish people will increasing see they are leading them down the garden path.

Key date: 29th March. EU Withdrawal Bill.

 

 

Hi stevewinn. Well you don't hear of Texas voting to leave and not Queensland in Australia, either. As much as you support the UK the fact is that a referendum for an independent Scotland was only defeated a couple of years ago and NOW another is being talked about. Scottish nationalism is to blame. They just seem to look for any excuse and unfortunately for the UK this is the latest. They want to stay in the EU. I know that the SNP don't speak for every Scot just like the brexit vote didn't speak for every Brit. But a votes a vote. The think is that any referendum will have to be accompanied by extra incentives and the more you give the less it dilutes being a member of the UK. Don't you agree. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Captain Risky

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Hi stevewinn. Well you don't hear of Texas voting to leave and not Queensland in Australia, either

Well, we've been hearing a lot of California wanting to leave, particularly since their beloved Hillary failed to be elected. And there's always been a loyal, if perhaps slightly eccentric, movement for Texan independence.  

[itsnotoutthere]

[itsnotoutthere]

13 hours ago, alibongo said:

No, they don't want to break up the UK, they want it to be part of the modern world!

We stopped fighting in WW2 about 2 generations ago at least!

Although the binge-drinking, unemployable, middle-Englanders still think WW2 gives us authority to behave like louts when they are off on Viva Espania holidays .

You must be a true dyed in the wool socialist. Your hatred of your country and its people is palpable.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

15 hours ago, alibongo said:

No, they don't want to break up the UK, they want it to be part of the modern world!

 

So do the Brexiters, not part of an out of date club of liberal socialist regressives more commonly known as the EU.

[skookum]

2 minutes ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

So do the Brexiters, not part of an out of date club of liberal socialist regressives more commonly known as the EU.

Thank God we are leaving this real world consisting of bullying, dictatorship and ludicrous ideals that are proven time and time again do not work.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

13 minutes ago, skookum said:

Thank God we are leaving this real world consisting of bullying, dictatorship and ludicrous ideals that are proven time and time again do not work.

 

 

Stalin's USSR was the same, economic plans that failed time and time again.

Edited March 20, 2017 by A rather obscure Bassoon

[alibongo]

35 minutes ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Stalin's USSR was the same, economic plans that failed time and time again.

I like your name, and also the little clip about borrowing money!

Your politics, not so much.

We are led by a remainer PM., by a very close vote (52vs.48) to a financial disaster, when we could have used all this energy to transform the EU to our benefit.

The saddest thing is that the people who voted to leave will suffer the most.

It is a strange fact about the UK that people feel bus stops and phone booths are suitable places to pee, defecate and damage.

The wealthy drive past in cars. They then go to meetings to decide whether we should continue funding for bus stops and telephone booths for the working class slobs who destroy them.

These same people, who pee in phone booths, feel it is okay to destroy the UK.Okay, good luck to you. Don't expect the wealthy to bail you out.

 

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

1 hour ago, alibongo said:

I like your name, and also the little clip about borrowing money!

Your politics, not so much.

We are led by a remainer PM., by a very close vote (52vs.48) to a financial disaster, when we could have used all this energy to transform the EU to our benefit.

The saddest thing is that the people who voted to leave will suffer the most.

It is a strange fact about the UK that people feel bus stops and phone booths are suitable places to pee, defecate and damage.

The wealthy drive past in cars. They then go to meetings to decide whether we should continue funding for bus stops and telephone booths for the working class slobs who destroy them.

These same people, who pee in phone booths, feel it is okay to destroy the UK.Okay, good luck to you. Don't expect the wealthy to bail you out.

 

 

Oh please lol, my politics are my own and please feel free to take off your socialist tinted sunglasses.

[Frank Merton]

4 minutes ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Oh please lol, my politics are my own and please feel free to take off your socialist tinted sunglasses.

It strikes me that referring to someone as "socialist tinted" has about the same force as saying they are "capitalist tinted." It is to put someone into a category that may be partly true but probably only partly.  Is there such a thing as a real full-blown socialist any more (or similar capitalist)?  Do they have horns and cloven hooves?  Haven't we learned by now that no economy can be socialist nor capitalist -- that pragmatic, case by case, government free of doctrine and ideology, is the only approach that stands a chance of actually bringing prosperity and happiness?

[+DieChecker]

19 hours ago, alibongo said:

No, they don't want to break up the UK, they want it to be part of the modern world!

We stopped fighting in WW2 about 2 generations ago at least!

Yes, saved from Germanic Hegemony two generations ago, only to voluntarily hand over government in the present. Germany dominates the EU, and Merkel dictates terms to the other nations. Or, at least she tries to. The current Conservative trend is due in large part to her overplaying her dominion over the EU leadership. Brexit also is an example of reaction to German legislative demands. The laws come out of Brussels, but the (economic) force to enact them comes from Germany.

Edited March 21, 2017 by DieChecker

[Space Commander Travis]

7 hours ago, alibongo said:

I like your name, and also the little clip about borrowing money!

Your politics, not so much.

We are led by a remainer PM., by a very close vote (52vs.48) to a financial disaster, when we could have used all this energy to transform the EU to our benefit.

The saddest thing is that the people who voted to leave will suffer the most.

It is a strange fact about the UK that people feel bus stops and phone booths are suitable places to pee, defecate and damage.

The wealthy drive past in cars. They then go to meetings to decide whether we should continue funding for bus stops and telephone booths for the working class slobs who destroy them.

These same people, who pee in phone booths, feel it is okay to destroy the UK.Okay, good luck to you. Don't expect the wealthy to bail you out.

 

I'm afraid I have to agree with 

9 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

You must be a true dyed in the wool socialist. Your hatred of your country and its people is palpable.

. Your contempt for The Poor is rather like the people who say that white people are naturally the superiors to Coloured people because Coloured people are genetically inferior. 

[Space Commander Travis]

 

7 hours ago, alibongo said:

when we could have used all this energy to transform the EU to our benefit.

The only one that could possibly have the power to do that would have been Germany, and as we all know Frau Merkel is the EU's #1 supporter, so the chances of anyone being able to do that are somewhat less than negligible. 

[alibongo]

26 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I'm afraid I have to agree with 

. Your contempt for The Poor is rather like the people who say that white people are naturally the superiors to Coloured people because Coloured people are genetically inferior. 

I don't like poor people, that's true.

I don't see what they get out of it, apart from joining the labour party and moaning.

Why not just get a well-paid job?