Brexit

[alibongo]

Quote

Personally, I voted to leave the EU.

This gives us a chance to close our borders.

Our economy is strong enough to beat them.

We'll do it!

 

 

[Setton]

On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 5:37 PM, Hammerclaw said:

So, one nut case justifies libeling the majority of British voters. Got it.

No one was libelling British voters. The original comment was that some people have called for remainers to be killed. You asked for a link. I provided it.

Just because you didn't like what it said, doesn't mean you can change people's words to something they weren't.

Please leave your ridiculous straw men out of it. You're making yourself look silly.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

No one was libelling British voters. The original comment was that some people have called for remainers to be killed. You asked for a link. I provided it.

Just because you didn't like what it said, doesn't mean you can change people's words to something they weren't.

Please leave your ridiculous straw men out of it. You're making yourself look silly.

No, I was making remainers like you look foolish, since it was your straw man I was pointing out.

[Setton]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, I was making remainers like you look foolish, since it was your straw man I was pointing out.

Really. Do please enlighten me. Exactly how do I present a straw man when I didn't post anything but a link?

Also, why the assumption I voted remain?

Please stop digging now. You just confirm the very worst of brexit stereotypes.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Setton

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

Really. Do please enlighten me. Exactly how do I present a straw man when I didn't post anything but a link?

You posted a link supporting a straw man argument. Now draw a card or fold.

[Duke Wellington]

Brexit won, deal with it leavers.

[stevewinn]

7 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Brexit won, deal with it leavers.

 

They cant, and that's the problem, they just cannot believe that their theoretical politics as been destroyed by the politics of reality. - their still scratching their heads, so far the 17 Million Brexit voters have been labelled racists, xenophobic ill educated, UKIPpers, Far-Right Nazi sympathises, - well all that guff was proved wrong, then they went on the attack, the world is going to end, economic ruin, rising prices we had the likes of Questionmark telling fibs, stooping so low as to start quoting a daily exchange rates to try and prove the UK economy was falling - only for it to rebound for 6 hours later that is the level they have sunk to, straw men and grasping at straws. - infact i'm sorry i never invested in straw and sour grapes, i'd be a millionaire. 

- so now they've moved onto - look what you voted for is not going to happen, apparently Brexit was not a vote for Democracy or sovereignty, Britain will not regain any more democracy or powers. So basically in their minds the Referendum vote was for what exactly nothing. oh no Nationalism, that's right they've tried to blame anything and everything.

- and that includes apparently a first hand account by OP on here stating they know people who voted for Brexit but now regret it and have changed their mind.  - how stupid does that make such people sound. how old are they or are they allowed out without their carer. -  reminds me of the people who had two years notice of the referendum and never registered to vote until the 11th hour and then moaned they couldn't get on the website to register because a Social media #trend caused traffic to crash the server, as the internet idiot magnet proved itself once again.

Its like i've already said to one poster on here don't believe everything you think. but sadly that advice will fall on deaf ears and they'll still believe what they think.

[skookum]

9 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Brexit won, deal with it leavers.

I find as I get older I am struggling everyday with peoples resistance to change of any kind.  My boss and owner of the company I work for had a long conversation the other day about this.  The most resistant seem to be the under 30's.  We are introducing new technology and modern practices and they do everything to resist it even though it is leading to higher earnings and better working conditions.  They should be embracing change and pushing us to modernise, not the over 45's pushing and motivating them.

 Change happens, it is not always for the better but happens sometimes whether we agree with it or not.

What the resistance to the vote has shown me is just what a rut Britain has got itself into.  No longer it seems do we want to lead, but just be dragged along and be told what to do.

I am now hoping we can break this cycle and start thinking and doing for ourselves, not sitting back, moaning but just going along with it through fear of change.

I don't think there is one person i know of who voted leave who din't think there will be some tough times ahead.  We are bound to lose in some areas but gain in others.  Bremanics can only see the negative side, they refuse to believe that a country can survive outside of Europe.  

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, skookum said:

I find as I get older I am struggling everyday with peoples resistance to change of any kind.  My boss and owner of the company I work for had a long conversation the other day about this.  The most resistant seem to be the under 30's.  We are introducing new technology and modern practices and they do everything to resist it even though it is leading to higher earnings and better working conditions.  They should be embracing change and pushing us to modernise, not the over 45's pushing and motivating them.

 Change happens, it is not always for the better but happens sometimes whether we agree with it or not.

What the resistance to the vote has shown me is just what a rut Britain has got itself into.  No longer it seems do we want to lead, but just be dragged along and be told what to do.

I am now hoping we can break this cycle and start thinking and doing for ourselves, not sitting back, moaning but just going along with it through fear of change.

I don't think there is one person i know of who voted leave who din't think there will be some tough times ahead.  We are bound to lose in some areas but gain in others.  Bremanics can only see the negative side, they refuse to believe that a country can survive outside of Europe.  

Its change that knocks them out of their comfort zone

[+Hammerclaw]

Will the UK form the nucleus of an organization to rival the EU? Is the UK the EUs South Carolina? Is a  European Confederation in the offing, an organization more amenable and respectful of the rights of it's member states?

Edited August 6, 2016 by Hammerclaw

[Setton]

16 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

You posted a link supporting a straw man argument. Now draw a card or fold.

I posted a link to help inform you. Anything you read into that is on you. Now please stop wasting everyone's time. There are some fairly intelligent people here who will argue the leave side. Best you let them do the talking.

[SHaYap]

Now that the dust has settled down a bit ... time to extend the scope of what it all means ...

~

By Democratic Audit UK 06/08/2016

The aftermath of the Brexit vote – the verdict from a derided expert

Quote

John Van Reenen was disappointed but not surprised by the UK’s vote to Leave the EU. Whilst his own research predicts serious economic and political damage in the case of Brexit, he thought a Leave vote was a real possibility ever since David Cameron committed to a vote in 2013. In his last post as Director of LSE’s Centre for Economic Performance, he gives his verdict on the campaigns, the media, politicians, and being a derided expert.

• democratic audit com link

~

[LV-426]

1 hour ago, third_eye said:

Now that the dust has settled down a bit ... time to extend the scope of what it all means ...

~

By Democratic Audit UK 06/08/2016

The aftermath of the Brexit vote – the verdict from a derided expert

• democratic audit com link

~

Maybe you could find a less biased article?

"The referendum was won on a drumbeat of anti-foreigner sentiment. It’s the same tune being played by demagogues in every corner of the globe. It’s the same tune that was played in the 1930s. It’s the same old beat that rises in volume when people are afraid. In the UK, it’s echoed by a rabidly right-wing press and unchallenged by a flaccid establishment media. Mixed by a band of unscrupulous liars and political zealots, it has become a tsunami of bile that has downed and drowned a once great nation. The only question is which other countries will now be swept along in this poisonous flood."

Honestly, this is just utter garbage.

You'd think from this article that your average Brexit voter is a gullible, uneducated Nazi, jumping at shadows as they hear a foreign accent.

This is NOT about "anti-foreigner sentiment". This is simply about the maths of unfettered immigration into a nation that is fighting to maintain quality of life for its existing citizens. Do some research, and look at stories regarding how young Brits can't even get a foot on the housing ladder, how many are still living with their parents into their forties, and how young couples are having to get loans from the "bank of mum and dad" to even have a chance of owning their own home - all happening while houses around Britain are being snapped up by foreign investors to turn into HMO's to cram in as many of the hundereds of thousands that are entering Britain each year as possible. Look at how students will no longer be getting grants, and instead will be forced into loans, so they start out indebted, have to burn all their money on rented accomodation, and will never have any kind of security unless they're one of the select few to get a highly paid job.

I guess there's little point going over the same points again and again. If people outside of Britain want to pin labels on us to validate their own preconceptions, so be it.

[Leonardo]

8 hours ago, skookum said:

I find as I get older I am struggling everyday with peoples resistance to change of any kind.

I'm curious, why do you presume that the "Remain" vote was "against change"?

The UK had never properly integrated with the EU, and resisted any progression towards that. In light of this, it could be viewed that "Brexit" was actually the vote to "resist change" and "keep Britain British" (as if properly being a member of the EU would mean anything else.)

Edited August 6, 2016 by Leonardo

[Space Commander Travis]

Are we still on about Breexit? Haven't people got over it yet?

[SHaYap]

39 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Maybe you could find a less biased article?

"The referendum was won on a drumbeat of anti-foreigner sentiment. It’s the same tune being played by demagogues in every corner of the globe. It’s the same tune that was played in the 1930s. It’s the same old beat that rises in volume when people are afraid. In the UK, it’s echoed by a rabidly right-wing press and unchallenged by a flaccid establishment media. Mixed by a band of unscrupulous liars and political zealots, it has become a tsunami of bile that has downed and drowned a once great nation. The only question is which other countries will now be swept along in this poisonous flood."

Honestly, this is just utter garbage.

You'd think from this article that your average Brexit voter is a gullible, uneducated Nazi, jumping at shadows as they hear a foreign accent.

This is NOT about "anti-foreigner sentiment". This is simply about the maths of unfettered immigration into a nation that is fighting to maintain quality of life for its existing citizens. Do some research, and look at stories regarding how young Brits can't even get a foot on the housing ladder, how many are still living with their parents into their forties, and how young couples are having to get loans from the "bank of mum and dad" to even have a chance of owning their own home - all happening while houses around Britain are being snapped up by foreign investors to turn into HMO's to cram in as many of the hundereds of thousands that are entering Britain each year as possible. Look at how students will no longer be getting grants, and instead will be forced into loans, so they start out indebted, have to burn all their money on rented accomodation, and will never have any kind of security unless they're one of the select few to get a highly paid job.

I guess there's little point going over the same points again and again. If people outside of Britain want to pin labels on us to validate their own preconceptions, so be it.

What makes you think it was a piece by people outside Britain ?

• Professor John Van Reenen @ lse ac uk link

If you don't agree with him then send him your thoughts and maybe sit down and have a wee chat over tea and crumpets ...

~

[Space Commander Travis]

I know I said a moment ago I wasn't going to get into all this again, but really, what a load of vituperative drivel that quoted article sounds. He sounds the very archetype of the snobbish academic, quite possibly occupying a Chair funded by the EU, sitting in his high chair dripping with sneering contempt at the proles who didn't do the sensible thing that he thinks they ought to have done, doesn't he.

 

I doubt QM will like this.

[LV-426]

18 minutes ago, third_eye said:

What makes you think it was a piece by people outside Britain ?

• Professor John Van Reenen @ lse ac uk link

If you don't agree with him then send him your thoughts and maybe sit down and have a wee chat over tea and crumpets ...

~

I was referring to people in general. Maybe you could answer the question as to the validity of the article you posted, rather than making a witty stereotypical remark about the British? You posted it after all. I assume you thought it had some merit?

I've never considered myself xenophobic at all. You know what makes people xenophobic though? Constantly being derided on international forums, ranging from the odd bit of humor that occasionally goes beyond the pale, to the downright insulting - often in the manner which the poster purports to be against, i.e. xenophobic remarks, which in this case seem to assume that anyone who wants to put their own citizens first in a nation, is somehow still yearning for the return of the British Empire

 

[SHaYap]

10 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

I was referring to people in general. Maybe you could answer the question as to the validity of the article you posted, rather than making a witty stereotypical remark about the British? You posted it after all. I assume you thought it had some merit?

I've never considered myself xenophobic at all. You know what makes people xenophobic though? Constantly being derided on international forums, ranging from the odd bit of humor that occasionally goes beyond the pale, to the downright insulting - often in the manner which the poster purports to be against, i.e. xenophobic remarks, which in this case seem to assume that anyone who wants to put their own citizens first in a nation, is somehow still yearning for the return of the British Empire

 

Did I say that you were old boy ?

Frankly the convo here has been turning around this merry little mulberry bush and something fresh to discuss would be a welcome read ... it is turning the turnip a shade sour with all this you they them tits for tats ...

~

[Space Commander Travis]

 

12 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Did I say that you were old boy ?

Frankly the convo here has been turning around this merry little mulberry bush and something fresh to discuss would be a welcome read ... it is turning the turnip a shade sour with all this you they them tits for tats ...

~

You've lost me now I'm afraid.  

Edited August 6, 2016 by Grand Moff Tarkin

[SHaYap]

Just now, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

 

You've lost me now I'm afraid.  

Its quite alright Otto old boy ... just trying out some new angles to this Brexit vitriolic flavored debates ~

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Its quite alright Otto old boy ... just trying out some new angles to this Brexit vitriolic flavored debates ~

Las Islas Malvinas angle would be perfect. It gives great view on the Brexiter hypocrisy.  

 

[Space Commander Travis]

here's an idea; why not not bother arguing about Brexit until it actually happens, assuming it does? Though that would disappoint the sour grapes crew, who would have to find some other outlet to explain to us all, over and over and over endlessly, how stupid and racist and bigoted and spewing hate the stupid ignorant Brits are.

[Space Commander Travis]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Las Islas Malvinas angle would be perfect. It gives great view on the Brexiter hypocrisy.  

 

wtf is that supposed to mean? I suppose it would be asking a bit much to ask for some sort of explanation what that's supposed to mean exactly. What's a 1986 Madonna song got to do with anything? 

[Helen of Annoy]

10 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

wtf is that supposed to mean? I suppose it would be asking a bit much to ask for some sort of explanation what that's supposed to mean exactly. What's a 1986 Madonna song got to do with anything? 

Nothing. But it has everything to do with the song Tatcher sang, to the overall joy of your... proles. 

 

In case you really didn't know las Islas Malvinas are the real name of the Falklands.

God, you're so pathetic... the lot of you.

wtf am I still doing here?

Telling you just how pathetic you are, that's what.

Bye, imperialists.

The EU door are that way *points with all tentacles* 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Helen of Annoy