Brexit

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, alibongo said:

I don't like poor people, that's true.

I don't see what they get out of it, apart from joining the labour party and moaning.

Why not just get a well-paid job?

 

I know that you don't mean that, and are only saying that as a joke to get a rise but it must be all the rich peoples greatest fear that one day the poor will rise up. Not that I'm advocating that. Just that every where i look i seem to notice that the divide between the rich and poor is growing. Only a matter of time if this keeps up. 

[Space Commander Travis]

5 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I know that you don't mean that, and are only saying that as a joke to get a rise but it must be all the rich peoples greatest fear that one day the poor will rise up. Not that I'm advocating that. Just that every where i look i seem to notice that the divide between the rich and poor is growing. Only a matter of time if this keeps up. 

Indeed, and would remaining in the EU be likely to be a protection against that, given how enormous the gap is between the rich and poor nations within the EU itself? it's done very far from raise everyone up the the same level of prosperity, hasn't it, as I expect people in Greece (unemployment 25%) or Spain (22 or so %) would argue forcefully. 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Indeed, and would remaining in the EU be likely to be a protection against than, given how enormous the gap is between the rich and poor nations within the EU itself? it's done very far from raise everyone up the the same level of prosperity, hasn't it, as I expect people in Greece (25%) or Spain (22 or so %) would argue forcefully. 

Oh lets leave the EU outta it cause we will never agree on that. I do agree that Greece, Spain and the rest of the PIIGS have been kicked way to hard in the guts. But really who do they have to blame but themselves. Anyway, the EU will die or best morph into a loose grouping. The Germans over did it with Austerity. And the French and British are to blame for not being able to keep up with Fritz.  

[Space Commander Travis]

I only mentioned the Eu because this is the Brexit thread..  

[Black Monk]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Oh lets leave the EU outta it cause we will never agree on that. I do agree that Greece, Spain and the rest of the PIIGS have been kicked way to hard in the guts. But really who do they have to blame but themselves. Anyway, the EU will die or best morph into a loose grouping. The Germans over did it with Austerity. And the French and British are to blame for not being able to keep up with Fritz.  

Britain's economy will soon be bigger than Germany's.

[Essan]

5 hours ago, alibongo said:

I don't like poor people, that's true.

I don't see what they get out of it, apart from joining the labour party and moaning.

Why not just get a well-paid job?

 

I don't like rich people What's the point in having more money than you need?   Why not do something useful with it like give it to those who don't have all they need?  Or just stop working so hard and enjoy life!

I earn around half the minimum wage for a 45 hour week, with no holiday, sick leave, pension etc   As a consequence I am deemed to be very poor.

I also own my own popular, local retail business, that is very very very easy to run (and allows me to spend most of my day on the interent, or doing work for the charity I help run), am well known and respected in town, even appear on TV once in a while.  I am happy.  Healthy (well, sort of .... ;D )   I have all I need.   But I am still, officially, very poor

On the other hand I know many who earn 10 times more than me and are always unhappy, bemoaning their lot in life, hating their jobs ....






 

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, Essan said:

I also own my own popular, local retail business, that is very very very easy to run (and allows me to spend most of my day on the interent, or doing work for the charity I help run), am well known and respected in town, even appear on TV once in a while.  I am happy

You're Sir Alan Sugar, aren't you.

 

* the UK's Donald trump

Edited March 21, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Essan]

Not sure Sir Alan would like be compared to Frump!   

(For those who don't know: Alan Sugar started life as a poor tailor's son, going to the local council schools, and who made his fortune entirely through his own success - and maybve a modicum of good luck.   A fine example of how anyone can make it in the UK, if they want to/try.   However, like Grump he does host the UK version of The Apprentice)

[Unusual Tournament]

8 hours ago, Black Monk said:

Britain's economy will soon be bigger than Germany's.

I read the same thing somewhere. I don't know how they calculate these things but even if the British economy was bigger than Germany's I'd still say that the Germans had a better economy. 

[skookum]

15 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I read the same thing somewhere. I don't know how they calculate these things but even if the British economy was bigger than Germany's I'd still say that the Germans had a better economy. 

Until they shoot their self in the foot supporting trade tariffs and find nobody wants to buy their goods any longer in the UK.  Lets face it the French automobile industry only survives through patriotism, government incentives and EU trade protection .  They probably build the most dire cars in the world bar China, India and South America.  But they sell through patriotism and protection from the EU regarding imports.  Strip that away and the tables will turn. Infinity, Lexus, Jaguar all produce luxury cars outside the EU, I think they would love a bite at BMW and Mercedes market if Junkers decides to punish the UK for leaving. I say too Infinity and beyond and bye bye 20% of German cars imported lol.

Edited March 21, 2017 by skookum

[Space Commander Travis]

I'm not sure I entirely follow your argument.So you're saying that that no one would buy a car from the Germans if it wasn't for protectionism, or something, and we should all patriotically buy (Indian owned) Jaguars, or (Japanese owned) Lexus? You assume that no one would want to buy their goods any more?

[Unusual Tournament]

13 hours ago, skookum said:

Until they shoot their self in the foot supporting trade tariffs and find nobody wants to buy their goods any longer in the UK.  Lets face it the French automobile industry only survives through patriotism, government incentives and EU trade protection .  They probably build the most dire cars in the world bar China, India and South America.  But they sell through patriotism and protection from the EU regarding imports.  Strip that away and the tables will turn. Infinity, Lexus, Jaguar all produce luxury cars outside the EU, I think they would love a bite at BMW and Mercedes market if Junkers decides to punish the UK for leaving. I say too Infinity and beyond and bye bye 20% of German cars imported lol.

So what happens when ze German's and the Europeans don't buy British made cars in retaliation? 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Captain Risky

[Stiff]

People buy French cars because they are cheap. Yes, they make some radically designed and good looking cars compared to the their cheaper and even more dire rivals - they always have, but I'll guarantee that if the prices were similar, the vast majority would be buying German cars instead. There's a reason for that.

Citroen, Peugeot, Renault - they all offer fantastic deals which also attract young/new drivers (a huge market in the UK) and they feel safe with a 'known' brand over the lesser known makes. Quantity.

The Germans on the other hand don't need to. Quality.

[itsnotoutthere]

14 hours ago, skookum said:

Until they shoot their self in the foot supporting trade tariffs and find nobody wants to buy their goods any longer in the UK.  Lets face it the French automobile industry only survives through patriotism, government incentives and EU trade protection .  They probably build the most dire cars in the world bar China, India and South America.  But they sell through patriotism and protection from the EU regarding imports.  Strip that away and the tables will turn. Infinity, Lexus, Jaguar all produce luxury cars outside the EU, I think they would love a bite at BMW and Mercedes market if Junkers decides to punish the UK for leaving. I say too Infinity and beyond and bye bye 20% of German cars imported lol.

Can't argue with that.

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

So what happens when ze German's and the Europeans don't buy British made cars in retaliation? 

that's not how trade works. trade is driven by the consumers demand who want to purchase a product or service regardless of origin, is 10% tariff on Cars really going to put people off buying?. I think not. the devalue of the pound at the rate of £1.25 to $1.00 Dollar as already wiped that 10% figure out. since that Referendum result British made cars are now 10% to 15% cheaper not only for Europe but for the Global market - that's 160+ countries, and as Global demand increases manufacturers of car components currently based in Europe have plans afoot to move production to the UK to service that demand.

im sure if the current world has no problem trading with Germany who committed genocide on an industrial scale and brought about the start of two world wars, im sure countries will be willing to trade with a Brexit Britain. - puts things into perspective.

[itsnotoutthere]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

So what happens when ze German's and the Europeans don't buy British made cars in retaliation? 

Why would the German & European public retaliate? You assume that the people of Europe (not the politicians) are all fanatically pro E.U. 

If there was a referendum in every European country tomorrow, (of course there won't  be as the E.U. wouldn't let them) do you really think that they would all vote to stay in? How do you think the vote would go in say Sweden if they had the chance leave & to restrict immigration? Why do you think that right wing anti-E.U. parties are starting to become more popular lately?

You presume that  the majority of Europeans (the people, not the politicians) are in favour of actually being in the E.U. Lets see what happens in the up-coming French & German elections shall we.

Edited March 22, 2017 by itsnotoutthere

[itsnotoutthere]

P.S. 

For future discussions, it's worth remembering that 'EUROPE' and 'the E.U.' are two totally different things.

The first is a continent of which we are part, the second is a relatively small group of politicians with an agenda to create a 'federal europe' run by themselves with no recourse to the public vote of the nations they oversee.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer.

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by itsnotoutthere

[Unusual Tournament]

6 hours ago, stevewinn said:

that's not how trade works. trade is driven by the consumers demand who want to purchase a product or service regardless of origin, is 10% tariff on Cars really going to put people off buying?. I think not. the devalue of the pound at the rate of £1.25 to $1.00 Dollar as already wiped that 10% figure out. since that Referendum result British made cars are now 10% to 15% cheaper not only for Europe but for the Global market - that's 160+ countries, and as Global demand increases manufacturers of car components currently based in Europe have plans afoot to move production to the UK to service that demand.

im sure if the current world has no problem trading with Germany who committed genocide on an industrial scale and brought about the start of two world wars, im sure countries will be willing to trade with a Brexit Britain. - puts things into perspective.

I realise that mate but i was referring to the previous poster that mentioned a boycott. And once this brexit drama settles down trade will move forward. 

[itsnotoutthere]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

I realise that mate but i was referring to the previous poster that mentioned a boycott. And once this brexit drama settles down trade will move forward. 

Indeed.

[Unusual Tournament]

5 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Why would the German & European public retaliate? You assume that the people of Europe (not the politicians) are all fanatically pro E.U. 

If there was a referendum in every European country tomorrow, (of course there won't  be as the E.U. wouldn't let them) do you really think that they would all vote to stay in? How do you think the vote would go in say Sweden if they had the chance leave & to restrict immigration? Why do you think that right wing anti-E.U. parties are starting to become more popular lately?

You presume that  the majority of Europeans (the people, not the politicians) are in favour of actually being in the E.U. Lets see what happens in the up-coming French & German elections shall we.

No i don't assume that. I was replying to a previous pro brexit poster. I would imagine that the majority of EU citizens are sick and tired of austerity and German financial dominance. But like you said we won't know until the next round of euro elections.  

[alibongo]

11 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Why would the German & European public retaliate? You assume that the people of Europe (not the politicians) are all fanatically pro E.U. 

If there was a referendum in every European country tomorrow, (of course there won't  be as the E.U. wouldn't let them) do you really think that they would all vote to stay in? How do you think the vote would go in say Sweden if they had the chance leave & to restrict immigration? Why do you think that right wing anti-E.U. parties are starting to become more popular lately?

You presume that  the majority of Europeans (the people, not the politicians) are in favour of actually being in the E.U. Lets see what happens in the up-coming French & German elections shall we.

Inflation is rising.

The EU won't break up, but it won't offer any favours to the UK.

The UK has shot itself in the foot, and made itself a weak economy.

[Frank Merton]

1 minute ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Yawn.

All you can say is "yawn."  Don't you realize how that proves your opponent is right and that you won't listen but are instead just arrogant?

[alibongo]

7 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Yawn.

I know.

The UK has decided to shut itself down, perhaps one day  it will wake up. 

[Frank Merton]

5 minutes ago, alibongo said:

Inflation is rising.

The EU won't break up, but it won't offer any favours to the UK.

The UK has shot itself in the foot, and made itself a weak economy.

I think there is a good chance the EU will break up, or at least be reduced to a tight Franco-German-Benelux combination.  They have not figured out how to prevent poor countries from borrowing too much and having to be bailed out -- and until they get some discipline on this, as applies to states in the US, they will repeat the same cycle over and over, and at some point the Germans will tell the Greeks (and others) to stick it.  (The only way a country that has borrowed too much can get out of trouble is by devaluing (lowering the living standard of the population, and that is not allowed with a common currency).

I am hopeful in a generation or so a new, larger, more sensibly designed combination will emerge, that includes North America, parts of Asia, and maybe even Russia if the Yeltsin plutocrats finally pass.  Maybe it might even be global.

[Frank Merton]

4 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

And yet every other modern country does just fine outside the EU, use some common sense. 

No one is claiming the UK will not make it outside the EU.  It will probably lose Scotland and maybe N. Ireland, and the population will not have as high a living standard, and the country will have little worldwide respect, but it will get on.