Brexit

[alibongo]

Peer William Wallace:

"So far, the Government’s plans on how to leave the EU are horribly unclear.  The White Paper the Prime Minister reluctantly published ducks many of the difficult questions. Special arrangements for specific industries will be fiendishly difficult to negotiate or administer. Open borders for trade are incompatible with leaving the customs union and the European regulatory framework. Insistence on complete sovereignty from rulings of the European Court of Justice will block continued participation in the extensive network of police cooperation, data sharing and intelligence that has grown up since the end of the Cold War, which relies upon agreed checks on misuse of authority to retain mutual confidence.

Brexiteers insist that the people made their decision on June 23^rd, and that Parliament has only a minor role to play on how the government interprets that decision. But the devil is always in the detail, and the referendum campaign left the details of leaving the EU undefined. 

The whole idea of parliamentary democracy is that the government is held to account day by day and week by week, not just by occasional referendums. Whether to stay within the single market, how to maintain security cooperation with our neighbours, how to prevent long queues of people and goods at Britain’s frontiers once we leave the EU, are all vital issues from Britain’s future on which Theresa May and her Government have so far provided incoherent answers."

Alibongo:

The referendum result is the result of asinine views, most eloquently expressed by that ignoramus on Question Time a year ago, who said 'We want our country back', without any knowledge or thought about what she wanted back or how it could be achieved.

It is a harking back to a non-existent time when the working classes were content with their lot, England ruled the Waves and all was well in the world.

Edited March 1, 2017 by alibongo

[Space Commander Travis]

Crikey, they've recruited William Wallace to support their cause now? Surely he'd be the last who'd be likely to be a Little Englander.

[Space Commander Travis]

Though I suppose he would be pro-Europe.

[Space Commander Travis]

Actually I do agree that the Politicians really ought to be getting down to sorting these kinds of details, but they're not going to get the chance to if people keep shouting "there's one last chance that we can stop it happening" or "The Lord(s) will Save us", are they. If the Remain Lobby keep trying to put obstacles in the way or come up with some desperate last minute desperate attempt to prevent it, it's not going to allow them time to actually get down to the nuts and bolts of the things that need to be discussed, are they. And if Mps are head in the sand enough to try to resist it or deliberately try to sabotage it because they know better, then perhaps they ought to be ousted and replaced by ones who more represent the views of their constituents.

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, alibongo said:

Cabinet ministers (24 for remain; six for leave)

Why do you show us a picture of the Cabinet ministers and point out that they were overwhelmingly for Remain? Are we supposed to be in awe of their collective wisdom and their superior knowledge? Bear in mind that, under the Cameron regime, the Chancellor of the Exchequer for six years had no knowledge or experience of economics at all, and that should surely tell you all you need to know about the wisdom and authority that these figures possess. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, alibongo said:

Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond

I mean, for goodness, sake, he's now the Chancellor, and before he was FS he was Secretary of State for Defence*, and before that he was Transport secretary. So we're expected to believe he's an expert on transport, defence* and economics? And before that he used to be on Top Gear.  

 

* not Defense, Google 

[alibongo]

4 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I mean, for goodness, sake, he's now the Chancellor, and before he was FS he was Secretary of State for Defence*, and before that he was Transport secretary. So we're expected to believe he's an expert on transport, defence* and economics? And before that he used to be on Top Gear.  

 

* not Defense, Google 

They are aided and advised by civil servants, who are experts.

[Space Commander Travis]

Then they're just puppet figures whose existence is really unnecessary isn't it. Why not just let the Civil Servants rule. A literal bureaucracy. 

[LV-426]

[alibongo]

Though I will say Geordies should carry speech cards around with them:

 

[alibongo]

The sad thing is, all these "jokes" have serious undertones.

[RoofGardener]

Forgive me if I am being over-analytical, Alibongo, but I can't but help fell that - on balance, and taking all things in the round - you are SLIGHTLY pro-remain, and perhaps fractionally disapproving of the Brexit vote ?

Incidentally, those "expert" civil servants you mentioned; does that include those in the Treasury who's prediction of post-referendum economic contraction was proved so spectacularly wrong that they had to publicly apologise ? Or those in the Bank of England who are in a similar position ?

Perhaps some of those "experts" also spent some time working on the IMF's forecasts, which predicted falling house prices and share values immediately after the vote. House prices have not fallen nationwide, and shares are soaring, seemingly breaking new records every other week !

Perhaps some of these "experts" where advised by Morgan Stanley, who - also - have had to publicly apologise. 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/morgan-stanley-brexit-economic-forecasts-2017-1?r=US&IR=T

Along with Goldman Sachs, and a whole bunch of others.

Would it be THOSE experts ?

[alibongo]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Forgive me if I am being over-analytical, Alibongo, but I can't but help fell that - on balance, and taking all things in the round - you are SLIGHTLY pro-remain, and perhaps fractionally disapproving of the Brexit vote ?

Incidentally, those "expert" civil servants you mentioned; does that include those in the Treasury who's prediction of post-referendum economic contraction was proved so spectacularly wrong that they had to publicly apologise ? Or those in the Bank of England who are in a similar position ?

Perhaps some of those "experts" also spent some time working on the IMF's forecasts, which predicted falling house prices and share values immediately after the vote. House prices have not fallen nationwide, and shares are soaring, seemingly breaking new records every other week !

Perhaps some of these "experts" where advised by Morgan Stanley, who - also - have had to publicly apologise. 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/morgan-stanley-brexit-economic-forecasts-2017-1?r=US&IR=T

Along with Goldman Sachs, and a whole bunch of others.

Would it be THOSE experts ?

I don't deny it is possible to cherry pick the news you want from the internet.

But it is only little bits and pieces.

[Space Commander Travis]

I think after these latest outpourings from the green one, I'm going to join LV. You're welcome to try to engage him in some kind of rational argument if you want Roofgardener, and good luck to you. 

remember you said this? 

Quote

With regard to stupid Northerners, I made it clear I was quoting politicians who said that in the media. I was quoting news.

Have you explained where you got this news from, and where you've taken care to point out, every time you've mentioned it, that it isn't your opinion but that you're quoting someone who's said it? 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[alibongo]

2 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I think after these latest outpourings from the green one, I'm going to join LV. You're welcome to try to engage him in some kind of rational argument if you want Roofgardener, and good luck to you. 

Of course, you may not be able to read this, Manfred, but I was making the point that the North/South bias is rife on the internet!

[hetrodoxly]

12 hours ago, alibongo said:

So Tony Blair, George Osborne, Norman Lamont, Neil Kinnock, Ken Clarke, Christine Legarde, Mark Carney, me, 90% of the UKs MPs,etc,etc. are all cowards?

And bigoted Leave voters are, by their very vote, brave?

About sums it up.

A list of has-been's and Carney admitted he was wrong.

[alibongo]

59 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

A list of has-been's and Carney admitted he was wrong.

Okay, the remain arguments sometimes look a bit shaky, I'll admit that.

[alibongo]

With regard to the North/South debate, the North has some of the most desirable places to live in the UK:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/do-you-live-in-one-of-the-nicest-areas-in-britain-most-desirable-places-revealed-see-where-yours-ranks/ar-AAnERNv?li=BBoPRmx&ocid=uie11msnhpl

[alibongo]

I freely admit there have been occasions when I have been factually incorrect, and occasionally rude and argumentative, and I apologise.

Edited March 1, 2017 by alibongo

[Essan]

7 minutes ago, alibongo said:

I freely admit there have been occasions when I have been factually incorrect, and occasionally rude and argumentative, and I apologise.

You wouldnt be you if you if you werent sometimes factually incorrect and occasionally rude and argumentative  And this thread would probably have been very boring  
 

[alibongo]

MARCH 15- THE DAY THE UK COMMITS SUICIDE:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4271538/Ministers-brace-Brexit-Bill-DEFEAT-House-Lords.html

[Space Commander Travis]

57 minutes ago, alibongo said:

Conservative peer Lord Tebbit today caused uproar in the House of Lords on Wednesday after complaining that peers were debating the rights of "foreigners" rather than British citizens.

That must be from the Gaurdina or Indepednet or something similarly naive or fake-outraged. Dear ol' Tebbit, the semi-housetrained polecat? That's what he's for, making Outrageous Statements. He's a much loved national character, like Prince Philip or Jeremy Klaxon. 

[alibongo]

Jeremy Klaxon - I like it!

Well, it looks like I have failed in my mission to convert the contributors to UM to the Remain cause.

We are still rushing headlong over the cliff edge (unlike lemmings, who don't, that was an idea thought up by Disney), and cheering as we go.

Edited March 2, 2017 by alibongo

[likwidlite]

Oh dear, oh dear, Ali. Time to have a think of your moral standings. For others reading, I'm going to revert back to your own comments, when you were happily trolling a thread about women being mass sexually assaulted.

"This is going to be blown up out of all proportion. There are bound to be misunderstandings...........Perhaps we should try to see what we can learn from them rather than condemn them."

Or  "A very simple analogy. You are hosting a dinner party. Some of the guests are veggies. Do you insist they eat meat? No, you offer veg alternatives."

Perhaps you could use some of your own advice and accept what's happening. Or does your moral standing allow you to accept mass sexual assault but not Democratic process?

But most people on here see you for the bigoted, racist you are, hence why you're on so many ignore lists and haven't converted one soul to your way of thinking. 

 

*Drops Mic, Walks off stage. 

[alibongo]

4 minutes ago, likwidlite said:

Oh dear, oh dear, Ali. Time to have a think of your moral standings. For others reading, I'm going to revert back to your own comments, when you were happily trolling a thread about women being mass sexually assaulted.

"This is going to be blown up out of all proportion. There are bound to be misunderstandings...........Perhaps we should try to see what we can learn from them rather than condemn them."

Or  "A very simple analogy. You are hosting a dinner party. Some of the guests are veggies. Do you insist they eat meat? No, you offer veg alternatives."

Perhaps you could use some of your own advice and accept what's happening. Or does your moral standing allow you to accept mass sexual assault but not Democratic process?

But most people on here see you for the bigoted, racist you are, hence why you're on so many ignore lists and haven't converted one soul to your way of thinking. 

 

*Drops Mic, Walks off stage. 

A bit harsh, criticised for my generous,liberal views.

Edited March 2, 2017 by alibongo