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Putin accuses Ukraine


bmk1245

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5 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Not entire Nazi Germany people were bad. So? Ah, yeah, you are hopeful (as well, as me)... Damn, I lost line of thought...

Well, it's clear that the majority of Russians support Putin (unless his elections are as much of a sham as I wouldn't be surprised they are), but, still, I'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise.

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That happens to ME ! too!  Nope some of the Germany's Germans are the most lovey dovey people you will ever meet. Other's like in some parts and in some parts of my family, take no nonsense and are very strict. The Nazi party might be another thing.  Hey do people or kids still say don't nazi out ?or what a nazi my teacher is etc etc. I forget the phrases now.

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5 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

What?

That, here -> Russkies have enough nuclear power to bring us to extinction.

Edited by bmk1245
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24 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Oh dear, you just asked being thrown up all over with feces... Juts wait for bee delivering nasty stuff...

By 'feces' do you mean Russian propaganda? :)

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1 minute ago, Clair said:

By 'feces' do you mean Russian propaganda? :)

Not only Russian, but bee stuff as well...

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4 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

That, here -> Russkies have enough nuclear power to bring us to extinction.

Actually, Russians have enough nuclear power to bring themselves into extinction. If they launched a first strike against the US, our early warning systems would detect the launches and we would respond within minutes of the Russian launch being confirmed, and they won't know what hit them. But hey, if Russia wants to go from cold war to hot war, they deserve what they get.

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10 minutes ago, Clair said:

Actually, Russians have enough nuclear power to bring themselves into extinction. If they launched a first strike against the US, our early warning systems would detect the launches and we would respond within minutes of the Russian launch being confirmed, and they won't know what hit them. But hey, if Russia wants to go from cold war to hot war, they deserve what they get.

Erm. Mister obvious.

Another guestion, when Hezbollah/Hamas will acquire dirty bombs. Quite soon... 

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5 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Erm. Mister obvious.

Another guestion, when Hezbollah/Hamas will acquire dirty bombs. Quite soon... 

I really don't know, but dirty bombs aren't a huge concern from a full-out destructive capability. Obviously they pose a danger, especially to civilians, but their most devastating effect would come from the impact, not the radiation. Furthermore, Israel has amazing intelligence capabilities (focused primarily on Iran) and chances are they would intercept something like that. So if either of those terrorist groups went the dirty bomb route, they would be committing suicide.

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4 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Thanks for these, they're quite in-depth. Have downloaded both to read on the weekend.

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Russia wants her empire back and is looking for an excuse to reabsorb the Ukraine.  but if she is going to do it she has to before our election.  because Obama won't stop them.

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.

Anyone getting sucked into the crude anti-Russian anti-Putin rhetoric in this rather unpleasant thread should 
listen to this 2015 UN speech - ( linking to the thread topic at 17:00 Ukraine situation is touched on -)

approximate times of points made in this excellent, thoughtful and at times, quite hard hitting speech - 

0:44 - Nazis - world wars

2:00 - United Nations general discussion

6:12 - history learning from the past

6:44 - Middle East 

8:00 - Islamic State / terrorism

11:20 - Syria 

13:00 - Islam

14:30 - migrant crisis

15:40 - International Law

16:40 - NATO expansion

17:00 - Ukraine

18:00 - World Economy / International Trade

21:23 - climate change

22:00 - Beginning of UN 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Clair said:

Actually, Russians have enough nuclear power to bring themselves into extinction. If they launched a first strike against the US, our early warning systems would detect the launches and we would respond within minutes of the Russian launch being confirmed, and they won't know what hit them. But hey, if Russia wants to go from cold war to hot war, they deserve what they get.

 

China are Russia's allies....  The US is also hostile toward China....meaning the US could well be turned into rubble.....

The thing with a modern nuke war is.... no-one really wins.... long term that is, the planet gets ruined.... nuke war should be avoided at all costs....and all the players know this...

Quote

 

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51 minutes ago, seeder said:

China are Russia's allies....  The US is also hostile toward China....meaning the US could well be turned into rubble.....

The thing with a modern nuke war is.... no-one really wins.... long term that is, the planet gets ruined.... nuke war should be avoided at all costs....and all the players know this...

I read that link before I posted it, and yes everyone is capable of inflicting damage against the other. I also agree that everyone has way too much to lose, which is what we have been saying all along. Mutually assured destruction is not on their agenda.

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3 hours ago, bee said:

Anyone getting sucked into the crude anti-Russian anti-Putin rhetoric in this rather unpleasant thread should 
listen to this 2015 UN speech - ( linking to the thread topic at 17:00 Ukraine situation is touched on -)

Thanks Bee, I'll watch that later today. Love the first part of your sentence by the way. :lol:

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21 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

That, here -> Russkies have enough nuclear power to bring us to extinction.

Doubtful.  First, it's been over sensationalized about this global destruction from nuclear weapons--fear is a powerful and useful tool.  Second, as with most of Russia's military, I am unconvinced that the majority of their nuclear arsenal is in working order now.

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20 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Another guestion, when Hezbollah/Hamas will acquire dirty bombs. Quite soon... 

Hopefully not ever.  As soon as they do, Israel will go berserk and wipe them out.  They'll have to, their own survival is at stake.

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6 hours ago, seeder said:

 

China are Russia's allies....  The China is also hostile toward to the US....meaning the China could well be turned into rubble.....

I fixed it for you.

6 hours ago, seeder said:

The thing with a modern nuke war is.... no-one really wins.... long term that is, the planet gets ruined.... nuke war should be avoided at all costs....and all the players know this...

Again, sensationalism.  But that doesn't mean I'm blowing off the threat of a nuclear exchange.  It will be terrible no matter the scale.

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On 8/11/2016 at 2:10 PM, bee said:

.

Hiya ---

re Syria - I think when the British Parliament made the surprise vote NOT to bomb Assad's that kind of left Obama in an awkward
position - I don't think America wanted to go it alone --- also there was info coming out that in fact it was the ''''rebels''' who used
chemical weapons then tried to frame Assad for it --- the chemical weapons came from just over the Turkish border, if I remember
right - it would have been unbelievable suicidal madness if Assad would have used the chemical weapons when the famous 'red line' had been
drawn by Obama - it came very close to the Syrian Army being bombed out of existence and with it the Assad regime - but as we know
Russia stepped in and brokered a deal about the chemical weapons ---- and frankly --- if Russia hadn't worked with the Syrian Army
to make a really serious attempt to get control of places taken over by the Islamic State and Al Qaeda affiliated groups etc -- the
whole of Syria would probably be in the hands of the Islamic State by now ---

The thing about pushing hard against a country that can probably match it militarily --- America is used to being dominant and having
it's own way on the International Stage - but the power balance could be shifting and perhaps that makes America  more dangerous
at the moment --- trying to hold on to it's supremacy as the worlds number one super power --

These couple of incidents show that there is a new technology around and this is almost certainly why the US has a different attitude
and approach to Iran now -- Iran has a kind of modern technology and protection that it didn't use to have --- not nuclear in the way
we think of nuclear - a different type of technology that isn't widely known about --- yet -- Keshe Technology --- called
plasma technology - 

 

I don't have the time to even touch on that --- it's a huge subject and I mean HUGE -- anyone interested can look it up and
do a search --- The Keshe Foundation - Mehran T Keshe -

there are some people screaming hoax ---- but ---- they would wouldn't they -- for a real game changer -
 

These are a couple of examples of Keshe Technology in action -- America hasn't been left out and they too have been given the
opportunity to have the tech --- it's all about Peace and exchanging Free Energy for Peace but there are lots more applications
like agriculture and space travel ---- etc etc --- I kid you not --- :) 

anyway this is getting to long now --- here are the examples -- the controlled downing of the Spy Drone and the disabling
of the USS Donald Cook ---

 

 

You know bee, none of that information had sources.  Also, even if it turned out to be true, I doubt VERY seriously Putin would let such tech be discovered for no gain other than an embarrassing stunt by a couple of his pilots.  Those guys buzzed that vessel not because the ship was defenseless, they buzzed it because Putin knows Obama is a gutless coward and would never shoot down one of his aircraft.  He also knows though, that killing dozens of US sailors and possibly sinking a Destroyer would be an act of war that would HAVE to be answered.  Mind you, such tech does exist.  Israel used something similar about 8 years ago when it flew into Syrian airspace and bombed a nuclear plant under construction by North Korean contractors.  They never saw the aircraft before or after the facility was cratered.  If Putin does not take advantage of Obama's time left in office I will really be shocked.   The EU is helpless to do anything substantive without US muscle backing it fully and Putin knows Obama won't do that so if he dropped a couple of airborne divisions into the Baltic states and rolled similar size units of armor and aircraft in behind them, no president would go to war to stop that or try to reverse it.  Once NATO was fully exposed as a hollowed out shell it might also cause other European countries to come calling on Moscow as friends.  This has nothing whatever to do with a lack of ability of US forces bee.  It has everything to do with having a coward in charge of those forces.  It makes for an extremely dangerous world - one we can see all around us today.

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5 hours ago, and then said:

You know bee, none of that information had sources.  Also, even if it turned out to be true, I doubt VERY seriously Putin would let such tech be discovered for no gain other than an embarrassing stunt by a couple of his pilots.  Those guys buzzed that vessel not because the ship was defenseless, they buzzed it because Putin knows Obama is a gutless coward and would never shoot down one of his aircraft.  He also knows though, that killing dozens of US sailors and possibly sinking a Destroyer would be an act of war that would HAVE to be answered.  Mind you, such tech does exist.  Israel used something similar about 8 years ago when it flew into Syrian airspace and bombed a nuclear plant under construction by North Korean contractors.  They never saw the aircraft before or after the facility was cratered.  If Putin does not take advantage of Obama's time left in office I will really be shocked.   The EU is helpless to do anything substantive without US muscle backing it fully and Putin knows Obama won't do that so if he dropped a couple of airborne divisions into the Baltic states and rolled similar size units of armor and aircraft in behind them, no president would go to war to stop that or try to reverse it.  Once NATO was fully exposed as a hollowed out shell it might also cause other European countries to come calling on Moscow as friends.  This has nothing whatever to do with a lack of ability of US forces bee.  It has everything to do with having a coward in charge of those forces.  It makes for an extremely dangerous world - one we can see all around us today.

Its interesting you mention Obama's time left in office and the possibility of Putin making a move especially in regard to Ukraine. It would be perfect timing, as Obama prepares to leave office and the period of Hilary or Trump moving into Office. by the time the next President is sworn in it could all be over. - making it tricky or complicated for the US policy or how best to react. the Kremlin see Obama as weak, and Obama simply doesn't have enough time left to go through all the diplomatic channels,  United Nations etc.. and would Obama want to hamstring his successor? 

Any Military response would be unlikely, NATO would rush to bolster NATO members But Ukraine exists in that grey area, Not a NATO member and not a EU member, we all witnessed how the EU and West tied itself up in knots when Russia annexed Crimea. - Plus we have to get into the psyche of the Russian Leadership they're willing to make immense sacrifices to get things done, even if it's at the cost of their own people. an attitude of ruthless determination will get them to where they want to get. even if their military equipment wont. - Compare that to the Western Political Leaders, who are adverse to hardship and sacrifice, and conduct our warfare worrying more about collateral damage than objective.

Edited by stevewinn
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An interesting article with more than a finger on the pulse of the matter ~

Quote

 

Behind The Headlines

Sunday, 14 August 2016

Warming to Russia

by bunn nagara

Even as Western sanctions are often said to work on Russia, Russian sanctions on Europe are proving to be even more effective.

AS the US presidential campaign grinds on, Donald Trump continues to be chastised and condemned for allegedly being “unfit to be president.”

Part of his disqualification is said to be a willingness to talk with foreign leaders such as Russian President Vladimir Putin. That at least is the view of the US Establishment including the mainstream media, which Trump has accused of bias against him.

Justified or not, that view of Trump is increasingly narrow and unrealistic given the latest developments around the world. Trump is far from alone in preferring to negotiate with Russia instead of ostracising or ignoring it.

 

  • thestar com my link
  • Bunn Nagara is a Senior Fellow at the Institute of Strategic and International Studies.

~

 

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7 hours ago, and then said:

You know bee, none of that information had sources.  Also, even if it turned out to be true, I doubt VERY seriously Putin would let such tech be discovered for no gain other than an embarrassing stunt by a couple of his pilots.  Those guys buzzed that vessel not because the ship was defenseless, they buzzed it because Putin knows Obama is a gutless coward and would never shoot down one of his aircraft.  He also knows though, that killing dozens of US sailors and possibly sinking a Destroyer would be an act of war that would HAVE to be answered.  Mind you, such tech does exist.  Israel used something similar about 8 years ago when it flew into Syrian airspace and bombed a nuclear plant under construction by North Korean contractors.  They never saw the aircraft before or after the facility was cratered.  If Putin does not take advantage of Obama's time left in office I will really be shocked.   The EU is helpless to do anything substantive without US muscle backing it fully and Putin knows Obama won't do that so if he dropped a couple of airborne divisions into the Baltic states and rolled similar size units of armor and aircraft in behind them, no president would go to war to stop that or try to reverse it.  Once NATO was fully exposed as a hollowed out shell it might also cause other European countries to come calling on Moscow as friends.  This has nothing whatever to do with a lack of ability of US forces bee.  It has everything to do with having a coward in charge of those forces.  It makes for an extremely dangerous world - one we can see all around us today.

.

I think they buzzed it as a warning to demonstrate that they could disable a US destroyer that was using the most modern
'combat management system 'Aegis' ' --- and did it as a defensive move to encourage the US to pull back from it's posturing
in the Black Sea -- ? 

Personally I think the world would be much safer if Russia and America made real efforts to live in peace and harmony
with each other - and I have to say that it looks like Russia is more willing to do that than the US at the moment - IMO -


the shenanigans going on regarding Ukraine being an example ...?  

 

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Russian Sukhoi Su -24 with the newest jamming complex paralyzed in the Black Sea the most modern American combat management system “Aegis” installed on the destroyer “USS Donald Cook”. Pavel Zolotarev, Deputy Director, Institute of USA and Canada, shares details about this version which is being actively discussed in the Russian media and by bloggers.

US destroyer “Donald Cook” with cruise missiles “Tomahawk” entered the neutral waters of the Black Sea on April 10. The purpose was a demonstration of force and intimidation in connection with the position of Russia in Ukraine and Crimea. The appearance of American warships in these waters is in contradiction of the Montreux Convention about the nature and duration of stay in the Black Sea by the military ships of countries not washed by this sea.

In response, Russia sent an unarmed bomber Su- 24 to fly around the U.S. destroyer. However, experts say that this plane was equipped with the latest Russian electronic warfare complex. According to this version, “Aegis” spotted from afar the approaching aircraft, and sounded alarm. Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. “Aegis” was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

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3 hours ago, bee said:

.

I think they buzzed it as a warning to demonstrate that they could disable a US destroyer that was using the most modern
'combat management system 'Aegis' ' --- and did it as a defensive move to encourage the US to pull back from it's posturing
in the Black Sea -- ? 

Personally I think the world would be much safer if Russia and America made real efforts to live in peace and harmony
with each other - and I have to say that it looks like Russia is more willing to do that than the US at the moment - IMO -


the shenanigans going on regarding Ukraine being an example ...?  

 

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

 

If its true about the Ageis system went blank, if it did we are all in poo street. - But there is growing evidence about Russian Electronic warfare making the West sit up and pay attention. one could think its purley pro-Russian outlets spreading propaganda but its now being mentioned in Government department briefings. especially the use in Ukraine and the Baltic states.  

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