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Putin accuses Ukraine


bmk1245

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11 hours ago, bee said:

I think they buzzed it as a warning to demonstrate that they could disable a US destroyer that was using the most modern
'combat management system 'Aegis' ' --- and did it as a defensive move to encourage the US to pull back from it's posturing
in the Black Sea -- ? 

I have no doubt that they wanted to encourage the US to remove it's embarrassing presence in international waters in proximity to the scene of the "crime" so to speak.  BTW, I don't care about Russian seizing of Crimea.  But to let it pass and do NOTHING is just to invite another, more serious attempt by Putin.  That's the way power games work internationally, always have.  What I wanted to point out is that saying Aegis was neutered by the Russians is an unsupported claim.  The only way I'd believe THAT little gem is if that destroyer had been heavily damaged by a missile from over the horizon.  Modern naval warfare does not rely on dropping gravity (dumb) bombs from aircraft.  It is a deadly game of dueling with supersonic foils over long distances.  In real combat between the US and Russia I doubt very seriously that a crew on a US or Russian ship would ever actually see the aircraft that killed them.  Buzzing is just showmanship.  As to who has the best tech, I hope we never find out. :( 

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On 8/13/2016 at 0:49 PM, bee said:

.

Anyone getting sucked into the crude anti-Russian anti-Putin rhetoric in this rather unpleasant thread should 
listen to this 2015 UN speech - ( linking to the thread topic at 17:00 Ukraine situation is touched on -)

approximate times of points made in this excellent, thoughtful and at times, quite hard hitting speech - 

0:44 - Nazis - world wars

2:00 - United Nations general discussion

6:12 - history learning from the past

6:44 - Middle East 

8:00 - Islamic State / terrorism

11:20 - Syria 

13:00 - Islam

14:30 - migrant crisis

15:40 - International Law

16:40 - NATO expansion

17:00 - Ukraine

18:00 - World Economy / International Trade

21:23 - climate change

22:00 - Beginning of UN 

 

 

Yeah, right. Have you forgotten Georgia?

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I honestly think we should stay out of it and let them sort out their own problems. If Russia wants to invade Ukraine (which I seriously doubt since they could already have done so) there is nothing we can do about it. Would American lads go over there to fight and bleed for Ukraine?

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13 hours ago, bee said:

.

I think they buzzed it as a warning to demonstrate that they could disable a US destroyer that was using the most modern
'combat management system 'Aegis' ' --- and did it as a defensive move to encourage the US to pull back from it's posturing
in the Black Sea -- ? 

Personally I think the world would be much safer if Russia and America made real efforts to live in peace and harmony
with each other - and I have to say that it looks like Russia is more willing to do that than the US at the moment - IMO -


the shenanigans going on regarding Ukraine being an example ...?  

 

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

 

Another piece of funny stuff, like whole crew of Donald Cook s#!tting their pants... Veteranstoday, beforeitsnews... Best news sources...

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On 8/13/2016 at 9:46 PM, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Doubtful.  First, it's been over sensationalized about this global destruction from nuclear weapons--fear is a powerful and useful tool.  Second, as with most of Russia's military, I am unconvinced that the majority of their nuclear arsenal is in working order now.

I wouldn't try their capabilities. Even if their 1% of nuclear arsenal is in working order, that would be enough for all us.

Edited by bmk1245
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7 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

I wouldn't try their capabilities. Even if their 1% of nuclear arsenal is in working order, that would be enough for all us.

 Yeah history has shown that even under brutal sanctions a proud nation can develop its offensive capabilities. I think we underestimate russia at our own peril. 

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1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

 Yeah history has shown that even under brutal sanctions a proud nation can develop its offensive capabilities. I think we underestimate russia at our own peril

Yeap, I think that way too.

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On 8/10/2016 at 4:49 PM, bee said:

.

Looks like the Western puppets and proxy army inserted into the Ukraine via the Coup / revolution are moving
into another phase of trouble making and provocation - and the anti Russian propaganda is being ramped up
- in preparation for what --- ? Looks like the US who has openly declared Russia to be it's number one enemy
is building up to something - what a pity it doesn't give more attention to sorting out The Islamic State instead of
playing dangerous war games against Russia - 

 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/11/28/bidens-ukrainian-mission/

 

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anyone surprised -- ?

.

Russia hacked NATO that's how they know. Soros is involved. If these leaks are legit and I think they are,it's actually a conspiracy fact now. 

 Out side influence move the U.S. We have to break free from those outside influences. We have no choice.  That's why a lot  of us didn't vote for anyone who served outside influences. No one has influence over Trump that way. He's free of them. And we can be too. But everyone has to wake up and know this stuff.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ellapennella said:

Russia hacked NATO that's how they know. Soros is involved. If these leaks are legit and I think they are,it's actually a conspiracy fact now. 

 Out side influence move the U.S. We have to break free from those outside influences. We have no choice.  That's why a lot  of us didn't vote for anyone who served outside influences. No one has influence over Trump that way. He's free of them. And we can be too. But everyone has to wake up and know this stuff.

 

 

Well we know that Trump owed or owes a Saudi prince millions of dollars for bailing him out and thats just a start, there is most definitely more than one reason Trump wont release his tax records. 

I think assuming that because someone is rich they dont have people they answer to is a bit naive. 

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1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Well we know that Trump owed or owes a Saudi prince millions of dollars for bailing him out and thats just a start, there is most definitely more than one reason Trump wont release his tax records. 

I think assuming that because someone is rich they dont have people they answer to is a bit naive. 

who is Hillary answering to.  she thinks she is above the law.  thus the private server.

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Just now, danielost said:

who is Hillary answering to.  she thinks she is above the law.  thus the private server.

Soros and Goldman's Sachs would be my guess. Of course she and Obama both visited the Bilderbergers during the 2012 campaign so theres probably some influence from those fat cats as well. 

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16 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Well we know that Trump owed or owes a Saudi prince millions of dollars for bailing him out and thats just a start, there is most definitely more than one reason Trump wont release his tax records. 

I think assuming that because someone is rich they dont have people they answer to is a bit naive. 

No we don't all know this to be the truth. Are you talking about the Arab troll?

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/31/saudi-media-claim-trump/

 

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2 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

No we don't all know this to be the truth. Are you talking about the Arab troll?

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/31/saudi-media-claim-trump/

 

So its Trumps word against his as to whether there was a bailout or not? Lets see the tax returns 

9 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

@ Farmer77  that smear is also tied to this as well

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/01/foxs-rupert-murdoch/

 

 

6 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Read em both Farmer77  

Can't stump the Trump !

So im a little confused, The first link clearly states that Trump has done business with Alaweed, yet the second link attempts to demonize Clinton for doing business with the guy. 

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10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So its Trumps word against his as to whether there was a bailout or not? Lets see the tax returns 

 

So im a little confused, The first link clearly states that Trump has done business with Alaweed, yet the second link attempts to demonize Clinton for doing business with the guy. 

He bought things from Donald. But Donald didn't borrow money from him. You know, things happened with our economy back then too and things are still wrong with it. I don't have a problem with Donald and what he did back then, a lot of business lost their shirts back then. But this saudi is taunting about it to destroy Donald for Hillary? Only makes me like Trump even more knowing  they don't want him but they want Hilary.

Edited by Ellapennella
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Just now, Ellapennella said:

He bought things from Donald. But Donald didn't borrow money from him. You know, things happened with our economy back then too and things are still wrong with it. I don't have a problem with Donald and what he did back then, a lot of business lost their shirts back then. But this saudi is taunting about it to destroy Donald for Hillary? Only make me like Trump even more knowing  they don't want him but they want Hilary.

I will agree with you that the fact that he isnt hillary is his best selling point. 

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Just now, Farmer77 said:

I will agree with you that the fact that he isnt hillary is his best selling point. 

O.K

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Ivanka Trump and Putin's girlfriend, hanging out in Croatia.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjAidv84sTOAhXISCYKHYlVDGIQqQIIHTAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgawker.com%2Fivanka-trump-hanging-out-in-croatia-with-vladimir-putin-1785290129&usg=AFQjCNES564-Ou8EBrZkvSbJqSWjadAkhQ

Numerous advisers to his campaign have ties to Russia, and speculation abounds that Trump’s unreleased tax returns would reveal heavy debts owed to Russian business interests.

 

The New York Times reported on Sunday that secret documents recovered from an office in Ukraine showed $12.7 million in payments between 2007 and 2012 to Trump’s current campaign manager, Paul Manafort, who worked as a consultant for the deposed, pro-Russia Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

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23 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

I wouldn't try their capabilities. Even if their 1% of nuclear arsenal is in working order, that would be enough for all us.

Sure, 1% can cause problems.  Not world-ending problems.  Heck, I'm not convinced that the fully capability of both the US and the USSR could do that.  Smacks of sensationalism and fear-mongering--it worked to keep those weapons from being used, so I won't knock it.  Regardless of the scale, a nuclear war still would be a terrible thing.  Come to think of it, any war is.  Just because the tools are more powerful doesn't make it any more or less of a tragedy.

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5 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Ivanka Trump and Putin's girlfriend, hanging out in Croatia.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjAidv84sTOAhXISCYKHYlVDGIQqQIIHTAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgawker.com%2Fivanka-trump-hanging-out-in-croatia-with-vladimir-putin-1785290129&usg=AFQjCNES564-Ou8EBrZkvSbJqSWjadAkhQ

Numerous advisers to his campaign have ties to Russia, and speculation abounds that Trump’s unreleased tax returns would reveal heavy debts owed to Russian business interests.

 

The New York Times reported on Sunday that secret documents recovered from an office in Ukraine showed $12.7 million in payments between 2007 and 2012 to Trump’s current campaign manager, Paul Manafort, who worked as a consultant for the deposed, pro-Russia Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

.

oh dear - the super rich elite and their internet foot soldiers are getting desperate and now seem to be relying
on a last ditch attempt to con the 'ordinary' people into abandoning support for Trump - by linking him to Russia -
it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic -

It's so transparent - demonize Putin - demonize Trump - manipulate the 'dumb' public - but the public aren't as dumb
as the ruling, warmongering elite like to think -

Actually I found this quite interesting because Sky News is shamelessly churning out anti Russian propaganda
on a daily basis - now it makes more sense - The Murdoch connection with Sky news - his ex wife Wendi Deng
fostering rumour --- rumour --- that she and Putin are an item - maybe she is trying to get into his trousers, like she
did Tony Blair just before her divorce from Murdoch ..? ... she might just be one of those women who like playing
around rich and powerful men or it could be more -

Perhaps she is a Mata Hari type character - using a combo of sex and spying ? To get access to information and 
exert influence --- for...?.....her paymasters who ever the hell they are - 

Same ones that support Hillary Clinton I suppose --- ?

.

Edited by bee
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7 minutes ago, bee said:

.

oh dear - the super rich elite and their internet foot soldiers are getting desperate and now seem to be relying
on a last ditch attempt to con the 'ordinary' people into abandoning support for Trump - by linking him to Russia -
it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic -

It's so transparent - demonize Putin - demonize Trump - manipulate the 'dumb' public - but the public aren't as dumb
as the ruling, warmongering elite like to think -

Actually I found this quite interesting because Sky News is shamelessly churning out anti Russian propaganda
on a daily basis - now it makes more sense - The Murdoch connection with Sky news - his ex wife Wendi Deng
fostering rumour --- rumour --- that she and Putin are an item - maybe she is trying to get into his trousers, like she
did Tony Blair just before her divorce from Murdoch ..? ... she might just be one of those women who like playing
around rich and powerful men or it could be more -

Perhaps she is a Mata Hari type character - using a combo of sex and spying ? To get access to information and 
exert influence --- for...?.....her paymasters who ever the hell they are - 

Same ones that support Hillary Clinton I suppose --- ?

.

Yeah they're using the same ploy to deflect attention away from the email scandals as well...."evil russians" despite the fact that its still very up in the air if Russia actually had anything to do with the hacks or not. 

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11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah they're using the same ploy to deflect attention away from the email scandals as well...."evil russians" despite the fact that its still very up in the air if Russia actually had anything to do with the hacks or not. 

.

yes, I agree, it is all a ploy - - and even if it was Russia - if -
(and it could have been anyone, possibly Americans leaking from the inside -)

the way H.Clinton stirs up trouble on the world stage - who could blame them? They would be doing us all a favour -
Does Clinton actually think that creating a power vacuum ready to be filled by the Islamic State is progress --- ?

 

 

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Just now, bee said:

.

yes, I agree, it is all a ploy - - and even if it was Russia - if -
(and it could have been anyone, possibly Americans leaking from the inside -)

the way H.Clinton stirs up trouble on the world stage - who could blame them? They would be doing us all a favour -
Does Clinton actually think that creating a power vacuum ready to be filled by the Islamic State is progress --- ?

 

 

Sure she thinks its progress. She takes in millions of dollars from Goldman Sachs among others who make a ton of money off of war. This article is a year old but still extremely relevant in regards to the relationship between wall street and the global power brokers/war mongers : http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-nato-military-deployments-economic-warfare-goldman-sachs-and-the-next-financial-meltdown/5467943 

 

Im not a trump fan , hell I think anyone born with a silver spoon in their mouths should be automatically barred from the presidency,but my ears did perk up when I heard him say Obama created ISIS. 

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1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Sure she thinks its progress. She takes in millions of dollars from Goldman Sachs among others who make a ton of money off of war. This article is a year old but still extremely relevant in regards to the relationship between wall street and the global power brokers/war mongers : http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-nato-military-deployments-economic-warfare-goldman-sachs-and-the-next-financial-meltdown/5467943 

*shudder*

dangerous people who really need to change - when they are old and look back at the carnage and suffering
they are responsible for it will be too late - they may try to justify it in their own minds but deep down they know
they are guilty - 

 

Quote

 

Im not a trump fan , hell I think anyone born with a silver spoon in their mouths should be automatically barred from the presidency,but my ears did perk up when I heard him say Obama created ISIS. 

.

yeah that is an interesting twist in the tale - Trump may say some things in a clumsy way sometimes but it's pretty amazing
that he is off message in regards to the Official Narrative about what's going on in the Middle East - 

I can't imagine what fever pitch is going to be reached as we get closer to the US election - 

Provided there isn't blatant vote rigging - I think it might be like the EU referendum in the UK - dirty tricks right up
to the end - polls and betting markets going for the Elite's choice - but on the day a narrow but significant enough
majority vote to rebel against the suffocating politics of a corrupt establishment - 
 

 

Edited by bee
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