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Why is Clinton's health being ignored?

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Claire.
14 minutes ago, OverSword said:

If I remember correctly John Mccain released his medical records upon request.

Yes he did, but just to a limited few, A small group of reporters were given access to his medical records from 2000-2008 (they were only allowed to review them in a private conference room) and a summary medical statement was posted on his website.

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Merc14
1 hour ago, aquatus1 said:

Yes, you are a bright penny indeed, now, please tell us why that would, in any way, make a difference in comparing one president with a debilitating illness from another?

I am not sure if you are meaning to miss a very important aspect of the above or just haven't thought it out so I'll give you the bebefit of the doubt.  Let's use tyour examples:

1.  Roosevelt had polio - As far as I know, polio does not affect the brain.  Now he did go to great lengths to hide his infirmary from the public but for motst of his time in office his affliction had little effect on how he did business.  

2.  Lincoln had smallpox and depression. -  Current thought is that Lincoln could possibly have contracted a dangerous form of smallpox about the time that he gave the Gettysburg Address but no one is saying he was ill when he assumed the Presidency, at least as far as I know.  He said he felt weak before giving the speech in PA and then became gravely ill afterwards and was confined to his bed for weeks which certainly is NOT a good thing for a President in the middle of a war.  If he had died, as 1/3rd did with tis form of smallpox then history would've been greatly changed so not a good example for the case you are making.   Some may think that Lincoln suffered from depression before entering office but most of what I read is that his "melancholy" was from the myriad traumas he suffered while serving as President.  His is a fine illustration of the toll this office can have on a person and he is a prime exam0le of why you don't want an already weakened person entering the White House in January.

3.  George Washington had pretty much every disease under the sun - George Washington was a relatively robust and healthy man for his age when he assumed the Presidency although he did suffer many infections throughout his life including malaria, TB and smallpox.  I have read no reports that suggest these illnesses ravaged his mind, however, shich may not be the case with Hillary.

4.  Let's add JFK who injured his back while serving in WWII and was hooked on various painkillers when he took office.  There is much debate on whether his addictions interfered with his decision making during various crises but most people believe he should've been up front about his health.  Were his decisions during the Cuban Missile Crisis questionable, a bit too daring?  We can debate that back an forth and reports are he was hitting the pills pretty hard at the time.  I think his decisions regarding the Bay of Pigs were very poor and many historians believe his presidency was heading for disaster before he was killed but that is all supposition of course.

Now with Hillary we have a woman who suffered a head injury so severe that she was unconscious for a time and hospitalized for over a week.  When she next showed up on stage she was wearing Fresnel lens, coke-bottle thick glasses and seems to have problems balancing.  We also know she developed a severe blood clot between her brain and skull from this fall and must be on blood thinners for the rest of her life.  We also know she spends very little time on the trail, makes only small public appearances and then only to small controlled crowds and refuses to give open topic interviews (something Trump seems to do daily).   We have photos of her being helped up stairs and suffering from strange spasms.   Obviously there is much more going on than that simple paragraph from some doctor admits to.

Do severe concussions cause behavior problems down the road?  See the NFL for an answer to that question.  Memory loss, bizarre behavior trouble walking balancing etc. are all possible symptoms that could develop from a brain injury like Hillary's and she appears to be having many of these problems now.  Are you saying that memory loss, bizarre behavior, inability to function at a high level aren't a problem for a future president? 

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Vlawde
On 9/4/2016 at 11:34 AM, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

Can you really look at her and not feel anything other than fear and hatred?  

That's what many feel about about Trump.  I don't see her coughing fit as an indication of anything more than a cold or respiratory infection.  Far as Trump's "doctor", the text of his letter is kind of off. I saw him interviewed on TV, and HE seems a bit off. But the main takeaway is that he is a specialist, a gastroenterologist. So maybe Trump's digestive system is ok, but he could very well be developing dementia or alzheimers

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Gromdor
2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Is that a serious statement? It's certainly relevant to the VP, considering they take would the reins in the likely event that Clinton capsizes.

Yeah, it's called medicine at the turn of the century. Everyone had smallpox, or infections, or missing limbs.

Yes, it's a serious statement.  As you pointed out, our founding fathers already addressed the health question with the position of the VP.   

 

Who cares if she gets sick or dies halfway through.  The Presidency is a job, not a position that can only be filled with a "messiah".

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Merc14

If you go to the three minute mark during a second coughing fit that started shortly after the "Whoa!" coughing fit you'll see her give up and head to the front of her aircraft.  Interestingly the large doctor is back and he seall the compartment off as Her Majesty hacks and yacks and coughs her angry way forward.  Interview over.  Also, Kaine and her aids are all carrying these pills or lozenges or whatever that her Majesty sucks down to stop the hacking cough.

 

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Sweetpumper

Swine flu.

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aquatus1
48 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I am not sure if you are meaning to miss a very important aspect of the above or just haven't thought it out so I'll give you the bebefit of the doubt. 

Thank you so much.

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Let's use tyour examples:

1.  Roosevelt had polio - As far as I know, polio does not affect the brain.  Now he did go to great lengths to hide his infirmary from the public but for motst of his time in office his affliction had little effect on how he did business.  

 

Gotcha.  Chronic pain, crippling paralysis of the lower half, weakness in the upper half, otherwise, business as usual.  Have to say I agree.

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2.  Lincoln had smallpox and depression. -  Current thought is that Lincoln could possibly have contracted a dangerous form of smallpox about the time that he gave the Gettysburg Address but no one is saying he was ill when he assumed the Presidency, at least as far as I know.  He said he felt weak before giving the speech in PA and then became gravely ill afterwards and was confined to his bed for weeks which certainly is NOT a good thing for a President in the middle of a war.  If he had died, as 1/3rd did with tis form of smallpox then history would've been greatly changed so not a good example for the case you are making.   Some may think that Lincoln suffered from depression before entering office but most of what I read is that his "melancholy" was from the myriad traumas he suffered while serving as President.  His is a fine illustration of the toll this office can have on a person and he is a prime exam0le of why you don't want an already weakened person entering the White House in January.

All right, so, Lincoln, as well, despite the serious medical impact his health had, did indeed carry out the duties of his office to a rather admirable degree.  I'm having trouble seeing where you are going with this.

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3.  George Washington had pretty much every disease under the sun - George Washington was a relatively robust and healthy man for his age when he assumed the Presidency although he did suffer many infections throughout his life including malaria, TB and smallpox.  I have read no reports that suggest these illnesses ravaged his mind, however, shich may not be the case with Hillary.

He became the first president of the United States.  Of course he was insane.

We are allowed to base medical conditions on political leanings, right?  That's how it works?

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4.  Let's add JFK who injured his back while serving in WWII and was hooked on various painkillers when he took office.  There is much debate on whether his addictions interfered with his decision making during various crises but most people believe he should've been up front about his health.  Were his decisions during the Cuban Missile Crisis questionable, a bit too daring?  We can debate that back an forth and reports are he was hitting the pills pretty hard at the time.  I think his decisions regarding the Bay of Pigs were very poor and many historians believe his presidency was heading for disaster before he was killed but that is all supposition of course.

Yes, it is, which begs the question, why bring it up?

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Now with Hillary we have a woman who suffered a head injury so severe that she was unconscious for a time and hospitalized for over a week.  When she next showed up on stage she was wearing Fresnel lens, coke-bottle thick glasses and seems to have problems balancing.  We also know she developed a severe blood clot between her brain and skull from this fall and must be on blood thinners for the rest of her life.  We also know she spends very little time on the trail, makes only small public appearances and then only to small controlled crowds and refuses to give open topic interviews (something Trump seems to do daily).   We have photos of her being helped up stairs and suffering from strange spasms.

Yada yada, crippling paralysis, depression, tuberculosis, pills, and...what, muscle spasms?

I'm not seeing how she is any worse or better than any of the four examples.

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Obviously there is much more going on than that simple paragraph from some doctor admits to.

I'll take this with the same grain of salt as "Dying of Polio probably didn't affect FDR that much."

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Do severe concussions cause behavior problems down the road?

As much as malaria, tuberculosis, and polio do.

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See the NFL for an answer to that question.

You mean the guys who literally slam themselves hard against each other dozens of times a day, hundreds of days out of the year?

That's what we're using as a comparison with Hillary's concussion?

I'm not seeing how my comparisons are not more accurate.

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Memory loss, bizarre behavior trouble walking balancing etc. are all possible symptoms that could develop from a brain injury like Hillary's and she appears to be having many of these problems now.  Are you saying that memory loss, bizarre behavior, inability to function at a high level aren't a problem for a future president? 

Just like polio isn't.

Or, wait, no, yes, it is a problem.  A huge, freaking problem.  Sitting there completely unable to do anything while your body falls apart around you is the single most pants-messing ordeal I can imagine (With FDR, that was literal).  Screw the people playing around with this like the political hot potato they are using it as.  I sincerely hope they never have to go through a hell on earth like some of these debilitating illnesses bring to some.

But that isn't what we are talking about, is it.  The real question is this:

"Are you saying the suspicion of memory loss, bizarre behavior, inability to function at a high level aren't a problem for a future president?"

And the answer to that question is this:

Yes.  Because some people will use absolutely any excuse for politics, up to and including dismissing the severe illnesses of others, and exaggerating the possibility of symptoms without any actual background beyond how many House episodes they watched (or worse, by repeating the opinions of those who watched the House episodes).

When I hear a medical group giving me their diagnosis, I'll start questioning whether or not she should be in office.  Until then, I will stick to not liking her because I consider her untrustworthy.

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Dumbledore the Awesome

So it's disrespectful to speculate about health issues? Well, what about mental health then? Considering that she herself has said that the President of the USA is the Leader of the Free World, so therefore the mental health of anyone putting themselves forward is a very real concern for the entire world, shouldn't that be a concern, or is that disrespectful too? 

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Merc14
51 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

We are allowed to base medical conditions on political leanings, right?  That's how it works?

The only one doing that is you.  You seem to find it extraordinary that people know whether this woman is mentally stable and well enough to serve the next 4 years as president.  I doubt very much you'd feel the same if Trump was hackling up a lung every time he tried to make a speech or need two people to help him climb stairs of if he had admitted to the FBUI that yoru concussion had caused you to forget many things.

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I'm not seeing how she is any worse or better than any of the four examples.

And just how are you determining that?  All we hear about this hacking, tottering, forgetful woman who hasn't given an interview in 272 days is that she is perfectly fine.   

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I'll take this with the same grain of salt as "Dying of Polio probably didn't affect FDR that much."

FDR died from a massive cerebral Hemorrhage.

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As much as malaria, tuberculosis, and polio do.

You mean the guys who literally slam themselves hard against each other dozens of times a day, hundreds of days out of the year?

That's what we're using as a comparison with Hillary's concussion?

 

Are you suggesting that the only way to get a concussion is to slam your head into another person's?  Are you denying that she had a massive concussion that knocked her unconscious and caused her to have to stay in the hospital for over a week?   You do realize that she told the FBI that her concussion caused her severe memory loss, don't you?  And why are you so fizated on FDR's polio?  I am noit aware that polio caused mental deficiencies yet you keep bringing it up, why?
 

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But that isn't what we are talking about, is it.  The real question is this:

"Are you saying the suspicion of memory loss, bizarre behavior, inability to function at a high level aren't a problem for a future president?"

And the answer to that question is this:

Yes.  Because some people will use absolutely any excuse for politics, up to and including dismissing the severe illnesses of others, and exaggerating the possibility of symptoms without any actual background beyond how many House episodes they watched (or worse, by repeating the opinions of those who watched the House episodes).

When I hear a medical group giving me their diagnosis, I'll start questioning whether or not she should be in office.  Until then, I will stick to not liking her because I consider her untrustworthy.

 

.....and just what medical group is going to do that?   What a blind, hide your head in the sand attitude to take.  Neither you nor I really know what is going on with this very secretive woman's health but only a fool would see what is going on with her and assume all is well.   I generally don't ask that candidates release private documents but when I see a woman being carried up stairs, hacking her lungs out at speech after speech after speech, reacting like a spasmodic puppet to unexpected stimulus, telling the FBI she forgot a LOT of things after banging her head and wearing Fresnel lens eyeglasses I have questions about whether she should be running or not.   If trump was behaving like this I'd demand he prove he is healthy and I demand the same of Hillary. 

Given her behavior to date, which seems to be getting worse, it seems very odd that a perfectly healthy woman wouldn't release her records just to shut everyone up.  Trump promised to follow suit so what's to lose?

 

 

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Big Jim

Let's not forget Thomas Eagleton, who was George McGovern's running mate for a while.  He was forced to drop out when it was discovered that he had been hospitalized for depression.  Clinton's collection of symptoms and possible diagnoses seems to be far more serious then prior bouts of depression.

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Paranormal Panther

The progressive media gate-keepers can't put a lid on this one. Alternative sources and ordinary people know and show that Clinton has health problems, despite her bizarre claims of conspiracy theories. She's not fit for office. Her brainwashed cultists are the only people who deny this.

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Paranormal Panther
8 hours ago, supervike said:

Do you think she was serious when she said that?

 

I'm no Hilary fan at all, but it seems silly that we attack every thing she says as if she is always speaking gospel.

Same goes for the Donald.  He talks off the cuff a lot, I don't make too much of the rhetoric stuff.

Big Jim realizes that it's just a weak joke. He refers to the gratuitous nature of her silly quip.

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Tatetopa

Perhaps the emails were a bigger story to start out with.  The dust still hasn't settled on that one completely.   Health comes up now because it is an issue, but it does not imply character deficiencies as some of her past judgments have.  Not as big a turn off as a character problem could be.  As Frank Merton mentioned the Clinton Foundation has done a lot of charitable work all over the world.  That is great, but it is hard to mix that with active politics and not raise some issues.

Donald's tax returns may indicate that he is further in debt and not as rich as he claims to be.  He might see that as a business impediment.  So candidate Trump may be more worried about his own finances and how to make the biggest deal for himself out of the election.

The amazing thing is that each party has nominated perhaps the only person the other candidate could beat.  Is Gary Johnson a totally lost cause? 

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Tatetopa

Never mind.  Of course he is.

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Merc14
14 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Perhaps the emails were a bigger story to start out with.  The dust still hasn't settled on that one completely.   Health comes up now because it is an issue, but it does not imply character deficiencies as some of her past judgments have.  Not as big a turn off as a character problem could be.  As Frank Merton mentioned the Clinton Foundation has done a lot of charitable work all over the world.  That is great, but it is hard to mix that with active politics and not raise some issues.

Donald's tax returns may indicate that he is further in debt and not as rich as he claims to be.  He might see that as a business impediment.  So candidate Trump may be more worried about his own finances and how to make the biggest deal for himself out of the election.

The amazing thing is that each party has nominated perhaps the only person the other candidate could beat.  Is Gary Johnson a totally lost cause? 

The Clinton foundation is, in no way, a charity.  Haiti iscompaining about the millions that were stolen from their recovery effort http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07/report-clinton-foundation-enriched-ripping-off-haiti-2010-earthquake/  go find your own source

The Clinton Foundation has been moved off the list of legitimate charities because they, literally, give nothing away. This from the NY Post  http://nypost.com/2015/04/26/charity-watchdog-clinton-foundation-a-slush-fund/

Frank is not the man he was a couple years ago, unfortunately.  Sad but true.  I choose to leave the afflicted alone to wallow in their own despair rather than challenge someone who has lost touch with the real world

Edited by Merc14
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Dumbledore the Awesome
7 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

despite her bizarre claims of conspiracy theories.

That's in itself one of the major things that provokes questions about her state of mind. You can imagine the Trump might say something like that as an off the cuff joke, and you can imagine how the official state media would shriek "Trump believes there's a vast conspiracy against him!" (even though that's certainly true). "He's deranged and deluded and not fit to be Pres!!" 

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TheBIHLover

''Good'' propaganda by Trump supporters. Good job, as always by you guys. Reagan had also poor health and was old when he got to be president. In the end, he survived the whole presidency (also an assassination attempt). If she wants to be president, then let her run. I don't support Hillary, but I would rather have her than Donald. 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
19 minutes ago, TheBIHLover said:

''Good'' propaganda by Trump supporters. Good job, as always by you guys. Reagan had also poor health and was old when he got to be president. In the end, he survived the whole presidency (also an assassination attempt). If she wants to be president, then let her run. I don't support Hillary, but I would rather have her than Donald. 

Do you hold the Clintons in high regard for the way they acted concerning the former Yugoslavia? Would you say that was a good precedent for the form another Clinton presidency would almost inevitably take? 

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TheBIHLover
17 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

Do you hold the Clintons in high regard for the way they acted concerning the former Yugoslavia? Would you say that was a good precedent for the form another Clinton presidency would almost inevitably take? 

Yes, they acted OK. The Dayton-agreement stopped the war. However, it continued to be the ideal in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and for this we can blame the nationalistic parties, because they are the ones that are conservative and not progressive at all. But, it is difficult when you have three different nationalities. When the new generations start to form friendships and ''forget'' the war, it will be a better situation. This will happen in three generations, I think. 

Not only that, but they bombed the Serbs, which they had every right to do so, mostly because of their horrific genocides in the country of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia. 

I supported Bernie Sanders (still support him though), but he didn't win against Hillary. Now the situation is so serious regarding the presidential elections and USA is important for almost all countries in the world. I don't want Donald Trump to be the president of US, because I don't like his policies at all. Hillary's policies are OK, but not progressive enough. 

Edited by TheBIHLover
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aquatus1
19 hours ago, Merc14 said:

The only one doing that is you.  

Yes, I am sure that you were just implying that anyone's mind, not just Hillary's, might be "ravaged" by whatever it is you are interpreting these "symptoms" as.  I'm sure political leanings aren't a factor.

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You seem to find it extraordinary that people know whether this woman is mentally stable and well enough to serve the next 4 years as president.

Not at all.  I find it rather common that people presume to know things they do not, based on scant evidence and lack of knowledge.

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I doubt very much you'd feel the same if Trump was hackling up a lung every time he tried to make a speech or need two people to help him climb stairs of if he had admitted to the FBUI that yoru concussion had caused you to forget many things.

I would probably feel the same.  After all, I suspect Trump's damage is narcissism, not brain damage.

But hey, if you want to believe everyone else would also accuse someone of brain damage because they got a concussion or needed a hand to climb stairs, you go right ahead.  I'm sure that is a fair and equitable way to view the world.

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And just how are you determining that?  All we hear about this hacking, tottering, forgetful woman who hasn't given an interview in 272 days is that she is perfectly fine. 

How am I determining that she is no better or worse off than any of the other examples of presidents with debilitating diseases, assuming she actually has debilitating disease of some kind?

By pointing out that there have been several example of presidents with debilitating diseases who carried out their duties under similar circumstances.

Granted, it probably seems nowhere near as accurate to you as a comparison between an old lady getting a concussion, and professional NFL football players eventually getting brain damage due to the dozens, possibly hundreds, of concussion through their career.  Again, you have your standards for balanced comparisons, and I have mine.

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FDR died from a massive cerebral Hemorrhage.

And a body paralyzed and riddle with polio was totally irrelevant.  Gotcha.\

Jeez, I sincerely hope you never volunteer as an aide or companion to the chronically sick.

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Are you suggesting that the only way to get a concussion is to slam your head into another person's?

No, I'm suggesting that claiming Hillary might have brain damage from a concussion because professional football players have developed brain damage after entire career-fulls of concussions is a rather facile argument.

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Are you denying that she had a massive concussion that knocked her unconscious and caused her to have to stay in the hospital for over a week?

Where have I and why would I bother to do that?  It is a matter of record.

My argument is against the sloppiness of the comparison you made.

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You do realize that she told the FBI that her concussion caused her severe memory loss, don't you?

Yeah, so?  Memory loss is common with concussions.  Hundreds of people with concussions get them.  Strangely enough, they have no problem functioning competently afterwards.

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And why are you so fizated on FDR's polio?

I gave three examples, and his was both first and easiest to continue using as an example, as opposed to continually writing out "Lincoln and his clinical depression as well as his bout with smallpox", or "George Washington and the myriad of diseases that killed many others apart from him".

Are you just spitballing here?  Is there anything wrong with FDR's polio?  It isn't debilitating enough for you?

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I am noit aware that polio caused mental deficiencies yet you keep bringing it up, why?

Your lack of awareness (and, apparently, lack of interest in doing a cursory search about it prior to pretending it is actually some sort of supporting argument) does not make your insistence that you have a credible argument regarding any potential diagnosis on Hillary's mental state any more compelling.

Yes, Polio can result in both nervous system damage and mental impairment.  That isn't all that important however.  In and of itself, polio is still a debilitating disease that killed many people, and that severely damaged FDR's body, and continued to affect his for the remainder of his life, just like it did for all the other people stricken with polio.  And yet, he still carried out the duties of the office of the president.  The point still stands: debillitating disease in no way disqualifies someone from the office.  Moreover, as you pointed out, FDR did indeed have to hide many of his symptoms, because then, as today, there were people who would point at his wheelchair and declare him incapable of being president.

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.....and just what medical group is going to do that?   What a blind, hide your head in the sand attitude to take.

Yes, refusing to acknowledge a diagnosis from some anonymous on the internet is always indicative of sticking your head in the sand, as opposed to waiting to hear from actual medical experts who have access to the actual patient.

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Neither you nor I really know what is going on with this very secretive woman's health but only a fool would see what is going on with her and assume all is well.

Alternatively, only a fool would claim there is something so wrong with her that it calls into question her medical competency based on largely not even on possible symptoms, but the suspicion of symptoms.

A sensible person would acknowledge that there is a very good chance that all is not well, but, like many other people before her, Hillary can indeed continue to do her job, despite having medical issues.  People who are medically debilitated do not automatically become useless.

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but when I see a woman being carried up stairs, hacking her lungs out at speech after speech after speech, reacting like a spasmodic puppet to unexpected stimulus, telling the FBI she forgot a LOT of things after banging her head and wearing Fresnel lens eyeglasses I have questions about whether she should be running or not.

A helping hand has become being carried up the stairs, a fit of coughing has become hacking her lungs out, and what may or may not be spasm has become reacting like a spasmodic puppet.  Heck, even her glasses are clear indicators that she has one foot in the grave.  Can I safely assume that in your next post, Hillary has actually been secretly confined to a hospital bed somewhere, only kept alive by machines?

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Given her behavior to date, which seems to be getting worse, it seems very odd that a perfectly healthy woman wouldn't release her records just to shut everyone up.  Trump promised to follow suit so what's to lose?

What's to gain?  The people that do these sorts of things don't shut up just because evidence is presented.  All they do is claim the evidence is faulty and that no group of experts would ever vouch for it.  People with that sort of mindset are not susceptible to reason.  They can't even see the bias in their own arguments.

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OverSword
Quote

Not at all.  I find it rather common that people presume to know things they do not, based on scant evidence and lack of knowledge.

Scant evidence?  If by scant evidence you mean everything short of a catscan then sure, scant evidence.

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Merc14
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Scant evidence?  If by scant evidence you mean everything short of a catscan then sure, scant evidence.

Thanks, that was all I was going to respond to as well but you did a better job than I was going to do.  Aquatus calling all this behavior scant evidence is laughable and shows how far down the rabbit hole some people will go to escape reality.  

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Harte
On 9/5/2016 at 3:25 AM, and then said:

Frank you should know by now that NOTHING is too dirty for political purposes these days.

Not just these days. It's always been that way.

Harte

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Paranormal Panther
15 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

That's in itself one of the major things that provokes questions about her state of mind. You can imagine the Trump might say something like that as an off the cuff joke, and you can imagine how the official state media would shriek "Trump believes there's a vast conspiracy against him!" (even though that's certainly true). "He's deranged and deluded and not fit to be Pres!!" 

You don't have to be a prophet or a psychic to foresee how Clinton's journalistic allies would react in that scenario. You would have to be willfully blind to not recognize how partisan the progressive media is in their coverage of the candidates. If they can't find a daily Trump "scandal", they'll invent one. This is especially true when Clinton has a bad hair day.

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Paranormal Panther
7 hours ago, TheBIHLover said:

''Good'' propaganda by Trump supporters. Good job, as always by you guys. Reagan had also poor health and was old when he got to be president. In the end, he survived the whole presidency (also an assassination attempt). If she wants to be president, then let her run. I don't support Hillary, but I would rather have her than Donald. 

Give me a break! You can't compare Clinton and Reagan. The latter didn't have a zillion coughing fits during his presidential campaigns, for starters. He also didn't have a Smithsonian brontosaurus bone display in his closet.

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