War Protesters

[Nancy]

i still don't think you answered his question, Nancy. 

Bizarro,

Since Pale_Horse has not responded, I feel a tad out of 'joint' trying to defend myself with your response, to his question.

As a result? I bow to your expertise and out of this thread.

[lil_kanga77]

So only the criminals,(who can obtain weapons illegally), who statistically have a greater inclination towards violence should have these weapons while their victims shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves with the same?

Where o' where is society heading these days?

[Nancy]

Where o' where is society heading these days?

As I leave here with my head hung low, I have to agree with you Kanga, 1000%

Tis a sad, very sad world.

[Kaj]

a well armed, lawful citizenry is a good thing.

And it works so well too hmmm....

More policemen on the streets and less weapons..thats the answer.

and are you fearing a military takeover????

Thought you trusted your gov and supported it.

Bizarro: its almost impossible to defend having weapons.

Hear about things that happen over there every single day cuz of someone got crazy or a kid played around with a gun,

If there hasn´t been a gun in the house, many of those tragic things never would have happened, the man that got crazy didn´t go out to shoot people in random.

there is nothing you can say that makes it right. But there is so many of those weapons floating around everywhere in USA and it is a little late to think about it now.

It would take years to get the weapons out.

And Bizarro: even criminals would not find it that easy to find weapons if the weapons were in limited numbers.

Well it is the wild west, Do you call it a civilized society???

In that aspect USA still is 100 years behind many other countries.

[Nintendork]

I agree

[Phantom]

I agree

Would be nice if you stated with whom you agreed...

Or actually contributed to the discussion.

[Bizarro]

first of all, i don't think Europeans/Aussies have a clue what the USA is like unless they have lived here for awhile. i respect lil_kanga's right to an opinion, but i don't agree with her- at least its an informed opinion. as for you, Kaj, you have no clue.

weapons are not the cause of crime. i have lived near people who have more guns than family members for most of my life and never seen them wield them in anger once. i know its tragic if a child dies playing with a gun, but children die playing with a lot of things they shouldn't play with- that is being a child. the crime and violence in this country is perpetrated mostly by the poor and uneducated people and mostly against each other. its not the wild west here either, although it can seem like it in some bad neighborhoods. more law enforcement would not solve the problem because the criminals have more to gain by defying law than obeying it. drug dealers get rich selling drugs but can't find a normal job anywhere but McDonalds or some crappy service industry job making minimum wage. you make more per hour busting windows and taking car stereos than working at these crap jobs. we need better jobs, better education, and better social programs to stop crime. guns don't cause crime in affluent neighborhoods nearly as often as in poor neighborhoods. in those neighborhoods, a gun murder is just as rare as any other country. lots of crimes are committed without guns too, even in a country already full of guns.

you could not possibly take the guns from people in this country. it isn't even a possibility. even if they stopped selling guns tomorrow, we would have them here for eternity and there would be a revolution tomorrow afternoon. i bet there are 5+ guns for every citizen of this country already, probably more. criminals would never have trouble getting a gun, even if they were banned.

we are a civilized society, just not in the ways you consider to be civilized. you can take your anti-American views and shove them as far as im concerned. why is it that if i were to start slandering some European country than im a bad guy but when some European starts bashing my country no one stops him? come on. at least be fair. if you want to talk about this subject, please refrain from insulting my country. i consider that a personal insult. its also totally unnecessary to the debate.

[Kaj]

Ok.

Sorry for the insult.

I didn´t intend it to be insulting.

I often make the mistake, that I think how it should be, and I don´t think about how it possibly would be in real life.( utopia kind of dream-worldview )

You don´t think 5 guns per person is scary??? (didn´t know that)

How many guns can a person buy per year???

I still think that the access to guns is a biggest factor in crime.

(and humans ofcourse) But you can´t ban humans can you?

My only hope, not only in this matter, is that people open their eyes to all the madness going on in the world and then look at them selves. What part do I have to this?? Why is it like this.

To tell you something about the Swedish gov I don´t like:

Too (indulgent?) to criminals, can´t handle money at all, bureaucratic as hell.

Internationally: A sharp protest is the only measure they take if something is wrong.

for example: sweden manufactures weapons (sucks) and are forbidden according to the Swedish law to sell weapons to countries at war. They sell weapons an war materiell to the USA. Even when USA was at war against Iraq.

Protests were made but they didn´t dare to say no.

Wimps.

The law is the law...sometimes.

[lil_kanga77]

A positive is how multi-cultural this forum is.

People from other countries, other cultures expressing their views.

I've lived most of my life in Australia and feel I can put a different perspective on things just as hearing from people from other countries including America can put on this discussion.

I don't agree with calling America less civilised than other countries for they are ahead in many ways yet.... I think it's important to express ones opinion be them American or otherwise.

We learn the most from people who are different to us, in my opinion.

And just because we don't all agree on what should be done, surely we agree that something needs to be done to stop such high numbers of deaths occurring from such weapons.

.... regardless of where we are.

Maybe I'm off topic but again, it's just my opinion.

[Pale_Horse]

What do you mean by eliminate?  Do you mean that one cannot buy such weapons legally, or that these weapons will simply not exist any more? ( By that I mean, no one makes them any longer and existing ones are destroyed.)  Which types of weapons would you target?  Actually, I'm kind of curious about your views on this.

Seems I've managed to wake the Sleeping Lion here.

Nancy: <~~~ carefully approaching Pale_Horse with Peace Pipe.

Whew.... (deep breath, Blondie).... Two-hundred years ago .......

.....Needless to say, Charleston Heston and I are not the Best of Friends, and..... If you start giving Deer and other wildlife AK-47's and ammo, I'd feel more comfortable about this whole convoluted situation. End of Speech. I think.......

Thanks for the response! I appreciate your intelligent views on this subject. But what I was asking, and sorry if I did not make myself clear, was that what particular weapons would you do away with? For instance, semi-auto pistols, revolvers, semi-auto rifles, bolt action, muzzle loaders, etc....

Sorry I did not respond sooner Nancy but I was in Chicago all this past weekend watching the Cubs loose at Wrigley Field Ninth inning, bases loaded and a pop fly to right field....Damn Cubs!!!!

Edit:

Shortened Nancy's quote a bit, no need to quote in full Palehorse...

Edited September 3, 2003 by Phantom

[Nancy]

Pale Horse,

Since I have bowed out of this Thread, I would be more than glad to answer you via a "PM" if that is acceptable to you. Sorry the Cubs broke your heart!

[Infowarrior]

Hobo,

Terrorist = One that engages in acts or an act of terror

Terror = Violence committed or threatened by a group to intimidate or coerce a population, as for military or political purposes

Have you ever heard that saying 'a rose by any other name is still a rose?' The same applies to the so-called peace demonstrators. You can call them whatever you like, but they are still terrorists. Wishing terrorists malice is not only a good thing, but to not wish it is wrong. Have you not read my previous post? What part did you not understand? To have a peaceful demonstration is a right in this country and many other countries as well, and nobody is against that in principle. Now that war has begun, to protest it is morally wrong, regardless of ones belief. But the type of protests that have been going on is morally wrong at any time, and that is also regardless of ones belief. I am all for true peaceful demonstrations, but that is not the issue anymore. The issue is the unruly mobs that claim to be peace demonstrators. They are terrorists despite what you may want to call them.

Further examples of this fact, that was not included in my previous post, is a small business owner is afraid to open his business because of the mob. Too bad for him if his business is barely making a profit. Certain parts of the city are closed off, and you can't even drive your car down certain streets because the mob wont let you. There are mobs outside daycare centers to prevent people from dropping their children off. In all these situations, your right to work and commute has been taken from you. If you are a consumer interested in buying something from areas where the mob is, forget about it, because that right has been taken from you as well. Most importantly, and one I already mentioned, is the allocation of resources. There is no safe place within the city because law enforcement is too busy with crowd control, to preserve the rights of terrorists, so your rights can be taken.

In Seattle, for example, residents are specifically being told that if they aren't in IMMEDIATE danger, don't call the authorities, as they are busy with crowd control. My first post was by far more profound than this one, yet you fail to grasp the importance. It's not about everyone having a right to voice their opinion. That has never been in question. It's about these terrorists taking your rights and safety and freedom away, and calling it a demonstration.

You said: "this idea that anyone that does not agree with what the government is spoon feeding them is a terrorist reminds me of something i, and i am sure every one else, studied in history, the bandwagon effect."

Nobody has ever said that, whether in the forum or in the media, so I think you're on your own with that 'idea' of yours

Just to let everyone know, I will be leaving the forum for awhile. With this post I will say 'see you later', and that I had to go out with another example of my intellectual superiority over those that think they know what they are talking about.

Take care everyone

And stay cool

Guess no one here has seen these yet. Very Interesting.

http://www.bushflash.com/topgun.html

Grand Theft america http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html

Exposed: The Carlyle Group

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/a...article3995.htm

http://thewebfairy.com/911/

http://www.ifrance.fr/silentbutdeadly/

http://0911.site.voila.fr/index11.htm

http://0911.site.voila.fr/index1.htm

http://0911.site.voila.fr/index2.htm

http://0911.site.voila.fr/index3.htm

http://0911.site.voila.fr/index4.htm

http://0911.site.voila.fr/index5.htm

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/070903wtca...canomolies.html

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/020903ps2.html

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps_confirmed.htm

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/...7497418339.html

http://dubya.cjb.net/

Weapons of Mass Destruction:

Who Said What When http://counterpunch.org/wmd05292003.html or http://billmon.org.v.sabren.com/archives/000172.html

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa11.htm

http://www.underreported.com/modules.php?o...order=0&thold=0

http://www.the-movement.com/Hijackers/Agents.htm

http://www.globalhowler.com/911_files/frame.htm

I got lots more if anyone wants more?

[Magikman]

InfoWarrior,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion here, as long as they stick as close as they can to the topic being discussed in any particular thread. What won't be tolerated, however, is posting the very same information in threads that have nothing to do with the subject matter. That is known as spamming, and it will be deleted immediately. Your cooperation is appreciated.

Magikman

[Cufflink]

I got lots more if anyone wants more?

You keep it, infowarrior.

If you should have a powercut this winter, you may need something to start a fire with.

[Infowarrior]

I got lots more if anyone wants more?

You keep it, infowarrior.

If you should have a powercut this winter, you may need something to start a fire with.

Did you even check it out smart guy?

[Homer]

Did you even check it out smart guy?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I want to be the smart guy for once

First of all, as Magik stated, your links have nothing to do with the topic. You quoted my post, which was about the topic, and replied by linking websites that are completely unrelated. Was it by accident you make yourself look like an idiot, or do you do it on purpose?

Secondly, your information is nothing more than the far left liberal fanatics bashing the current conservative president. This happens all the time with every administration. You have the far right wing conservative fanatics who bash a liberal president as well. Nothing more than politics as usual, and the biased ideology that follows.

Lastly, we don't need to check them all out, nor do we need any more of your ridiculous links. After looking at the first few, it is understood where your political beliefs are.

[Cufflink]

Did you even check it out smart guy?

You don't need to be smart to avoid reading left-wing sh*te like that. You have no right posting a list of links for that rubbish.

You believe it if you want to. Don't force it on others.

Why the hang-up with authority, anyway? Did your mom or pop tell you to turn down your music, once too often?

Spare us.

[Pale_Horse]

Why the hang-up with authority, anyway?  Did your mom or pop tell you to turn down your music, once too often?

Spare us.

Hehe..

[lil_kanga77]

Just what do you say to all that?

[Infowarrior]

Thats a very good question.

The war protesters, at least in the U.S., represent a very small minority, as this country is overwhelmingly in support of the war. However, this small minority is a representative of all that is wrong with this world, and they should be destroyed.

I'm so thankul they don't have these demonstrations where I live, or I swear by God, there will be a bloodbath on a scale that has never been seen before in this city. I will make it my goal to personally kill as many of these people as I can before I die. These people are terrorists, and they should be annihilated.

A terrorist bomb goes off, and rescue workers can't come to the rescue, because protesters are blocking the streets. A building is on fire, and the firetrucks can't come to the rescue, because protesters are blocking the streets. A pregnant woman can't make it to the hospital because the protesters are blocking the streets, and if she dies due to complications, who is liable? In New York, $900,000.00 of tax payer money goes to pay the overtime of law enforcement so the protesters can have their protest. This country is at war, with a terror threat level of high, and half of our law enforcement is protecting the streets from the protesters, instead of protecting the civilians from possible terrorists. How is that for an allocation of resources in time of war?!!

I am neither joking or exaggerating when I say that the killing wont stop until I am dead. These people are terrorists, and their destruction, should they assemble in my neck of the woods, will be my lifes goal.

Homer

The war protesters, at least in the U.S., represent a very small minority, as this country is overwhelmingly in support of the war. However, this small minority is a representative of all that is wrong with this world, and they should be destroyed

Teddy Roosevelt woulda called you a traitor to America for saying that.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.”

– Teddy Roosevelt

[Infowarrior]

Did you even check it out smart guy?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I want to be the smart guy for once

First of all, as Magik stated, your links have nothing to do with the topic. You quoted my post, which was about the topic, and replied by linking websites that are completely unrelated. Was it by accident you make yourself look like an idiot, or do you do it on purpose?

Secondly, your information is nothing more than the far left liberal fanatics bashing the current conservative president. This happens all the time with every administration. You have the far right wing conservative fanatics who bash a liberal president as well. Nothing more than politics as usual, and the biased ideology that follows.

Lastly, we don't need to check them all out, nor do we need any more of your ridiculous links. After looking at the first few, it is understood where your political beliefs are.

Secondly, your information is nothing more than the far left liberal fanatics bashing the current conservative president.

No they are not,they are people who want the truth,lying is something this administration is acting like the last administration.

[Infowarrior]

Did you even check it out smart guy?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I want to be the smart guy for once

First of all, as Magik stated, your links have nothing to do with the topic. You quoted my post, which was about the topic, and replied by linking websites that are completely unrelated. Was it by accident you make yourself look like an idiot, or do you do it on purpose?

Secondly, your information is nothing more than the far left liberal fanatics bashing the current conservative president. This happens all the time with every administration. You have the far right wing conservative fanatics who bash a liberal president as well. Nothing more than politics as usual, and the biased ideology that follows.

Lastly, we don't need to check them all out, nor do we need any more of your ridiculous links. After looking at the first few, it is understood where your political beliefs are.

After looking at the first few, it is understood where your political beliefs are.

Yeah I'm against corruption,,,,Boy I'm terrible

[Homer]

Teddy Roosevelt woulda called you a traitor to America for saying that

How would you know? Your quote of Teddy Roosevelt was in no way contradictory to what I posted.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

I never mentioned there shouldn't be any criticism of the President, or that anyone should stand by the President right or wrong. What I did state was that the unpeaceful demonstrators were terrorists who take the rights away from others. This isn't just an opinion, but fact. If someone doesn't believe there are more than 10 stars in the universe, doesn't mean it's not a fact that there is. Meaning, if someone doesn't believe my point, doesn't take away from the fact that what I write are facts. I have wrote multiple examples of my position, and if someone can't come to the conclusion that I'm right based on the facts, then that only further illustrates their ignorance.

Infoboy,

You quote me as if to question or contradict or debate my points, yet you never post anything that directly relates to what you quote. What you quote from are never debated, questioned or contradicted in your replies, so I'm a little confused why you keep quoting me at all. If you disagree with something I say, then quote specifically what it is you disagree with, so that only that part can be discussed.

[Infowarrior]

Teddy Roosevelt woulda called you a traitor to America for saying that

How would you know? Your quote of Teddy Roosevelt was in no way contradictory to what I posted.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

I never mentioned there shouldn't be any criticism of the President, or that anyone should stand by the President right or wrong. What I did state was that the unpeaceful demonstrators were terrorists who take the rights away from others. This isn't just an opinion, but fact. If someone doesn't believe there are more than 10 stars in the universe, doesn't mean it's not a fact that there is. Meaning, if someone doesn't believe my point, doesn't take away from the fact that what I write are facts. I have wrote multiple examples of my position, and if someone can't come to the conclusion that I'm right based on the facts, then that only further illustrates their ignorance.

Infoboy,

You quote me as if to question or contradict or debate my points, yet you never post anything that directly relates to what you quote. What you quote from are never debated, questioned or contradicted in your replies, so I'm a little confused why you keep quoting me at all. If you disagree with something I say, then quote specifically what it is you disagree with, so that only that part can be discussed.

What I did state was that the unpeaceful demonstrators were terrorists who take the rights away from others. This isn't just an opinion, but fact

I'm sure Ashcroft will be offering you a job in the DOJ.

I guess blacks in the south in the 60's were terrorists too.I guess our founding father were terrorists. Whatever you say "Bart"

[Homer]

I'm sure Ashcroft will be offering you a job in the DOJ.

I guess blacks in the south in the 60's were terrorists too.I guess our founding father were terrorists. Whatever you say "Bart"

You're still quoting the entire post, and your lack the intelligence to understand and correct this discrepancy is making you look more silly with each post.

No matter. You still fail to contradict or debate or question a single thing I posted. Instead you throw in other situations of past civil unrest and hope I take the bait. I've got some news for you, Infoboy. I'm smarter now then you will ever be, and everyone knows it. You have failed in this discussion like you have failed in every discussion you have been in since you joined this forum.

I have posted my position backed up with multiple real life examples, and you have said nothing to refute me, yet you still disagree. I think I have said enough, and my participation in this is at an end.

Debating kids, although easy, is certainly not cool