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Claire.

U.S.-led Forces Strike Syrian Troops

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Hammerclaw
6 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Unsupported, most moderates have been killed or driven into exile, the refugees you wax so sanctimonious about.  

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Only_
4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Unsupported, most moderates have been killed or driven into exile, the refugees you wax so sanctimonious about.  

Assuming what you say is true.. So that means the 'moderates' were so few to begin with and that the US is now mostly backing Islamists.

Thanks for admitting it.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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Black Red Devil

The Oz Govt has admitted the RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) were involved in the bombings.  At this point they haven't committed in telling us in what capacity, directly or escorting.  Great, now we're getting muddled up in atrocities.  Turnbull better come clean on this!

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Hammerclaw
Just now, TruthSeeker_ said:

Assuming what you say is true.. So that means the 'moderates' were so few to begin with and that the US is now mostly supporting Islamists.

Thanks for admitting it.

No, some hang on to their little corners of the conflict. The rest are ISIS now. Besides, they're all Islamic. How do you distinguish between levels of extreme?

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

The Oz Govt has admitted the RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) were involved in the bombings.  At this point they haven't committed in telling us in what capacity, directly or escorting.  Great, now we're getting muddled up in atrocities.  Turnbull better come clean on this!

I think it goes without saying Australians wouldn't bomb anyone who didn't deserve it, so it had be some kind of dreadful mistake...or the coalition was deliberately fed some bad information.

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third_eye

Not so much good or bad information but more towards the likes of information evaluation ...

~

 

Quote

 

U.S. policy toward a turbulent Middle East

Kenneth M. Pollack Tuesday, March 24, 2015

Editor’s Note: On March 24, Kenneth Pollack testified before the United States Senate Committee on Armed Services about U.S. policy toward the Middle East.

Read his testimony in full below or watch the video of the hearing

 

  • Brookings edu link

 

~

 

Quote

 

What America Keeps Getting Wrong in the Middle East

June 13, 2016

Editor’s Note: The following is drawn from remarks that Ambassador Chas W. Freeman, Jr. delivered at a meeting at the Center for the National Interest on June 9. The article originally appeared on his blog here.

 

  • National interest org link

~

 

 

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Black Red Devil
19 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I think it goes without saying Australians wouldn't bomb anyone who didn't deserve it, so it had be some kind of dreadful mistake...or the coalition was deliberately fed some bad information.

I hope it was "bad information".  The media and the populace here aren't lenient with screw ups from our politicians PM included and he can't hide behind a "I wasn't told" sort of excuse.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Black Red Devil
14 minutes ago, third_eye said:
  • National interest org link

 

 

 

I like this piece from the article although I believe this is only a small part of the reason we (the west) keep on sticking our beaks in there,

Two hundred and eighteen years ago today, Napoleon was preparing to take Malta. His purpose was to clear an obstacle to his seizure of Egypt for revolutionary France. He was able to invade Egypt on July 1, 1798. Napoleon’s campaign there and in Palestine kicked off a two-century-long effort by the West to transform the Middle East. European imperial powers and, latterly, the United States, have repeatedly sought to convert Arabs, Persians and Turks to the secular values of the European Enlightenment, to democratize them, to impose Western models of governance on them in place of indigenous, Islamic systems, and more recently to persuade them to accept a Jewish state in their midst.

This experiment in expeditionary, transformative diplomacy has now definitively failed.

 

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third_eye
Just now, Black Red Devil said:

I like this piece from the article although I believe this is only a small part of the reason we (the west) keep on sticking our beaks in there,

 

 

... and those were the more innocent days before giant corps, industrial 'defense' complexes and oil conglomerates ...

~

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Black Red Devil
1 minute ago, third_eye said:

... and those were the more innocent days before giant corps, industrial 'defense' complexes and oil conglomerates ...

~

Exactly, I think you're onto something there.....

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Frank Merton
50 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, some hang on to their little corners of the conflict. The rest are ISIS now. Besides, they're all Islamic. How do you distinguish between levels of extreme?

Where in the world did you learn that -- or did you just make it up?  What you say has the credibility of a snail.

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Frank Merton

Big is not necessarily bad, but when it is, it is really bad.

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third_eye
Just now, Black Red Devil said:

Exactly, I think you're onto something there.....

Not me ... twas good ol' Ike ...

~

 

~

" In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. "

  • mcadams posc mu edu   link

 

~

George Carlin's take with his usual brand of adult linguistics but quite informative aside from entertaining ...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

~

 

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

I hope it was "bad information".  The media and the populace here aren't lenient with screw ups from our politicians PM included and he can't hide behind a "I wasn't told" sort of excuse.

Is he completely hands on in micro-managing every aspect of your expeditionary force in Iraq, or would the responsibility of the snafu fall on the shoulders of it's commander or command staff?

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Black Red Devil
41 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Is he completely hands on in micro-managing every aspect of your expeditionary force in Iraq, or would the responsibility of the snafu fall on the shoulders of it's commander or command staff?

I'm sure he's give the Chief in Command a royal ear bashing but normal people would usually go for the biggest price and ask him to explain what happened, not the Commander. Also, they might be micro scuffles for the US but Australia doesn't usually get involved in many conflicts directly so when they do, you wouldn't expect them to screw up.  Nevertheless, if it was bad intel then they can't be blamed can they, but my guess is it would stir up a "what the hell are we doing there?" type of scenario.

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Black Red Devil
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

Not me ... twas good ol' Ike ...

~

 

~

" In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. "

  • mcadams posc mu edu   link

 

~

George Carlin's take with his usual brand of adult linguistics but quite informative aside from entertaining ...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

~

 

I thought you advised Ike.  :mellow:

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third_eye
3 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I thought you advised Ike.  :mellow:

If it were so we'd be dealing with this issue on the Paranormal boards :lol:

~

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bee
12 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

What are you, some kind of nut? We've been attacking ISIS since we started. That recent incident was an unfortunate case of friendly fire. The Russians have been attacking freedom fighters since they got there in support of the corrupt Syrian tyrant, Assad.

.

I find it hard to believe that you even believe what you said quoted above ---

The US (and allies like Britain etc) are twisting truth on it's head to try and convince the wider world that they occupy the moral high ground - 

It's patently obvious, though, that they - 'we' - don't - in Syria 'we' are occupying the moral low ground - sadly, very low ground -

I'm as patriotic as the next person - but willfully believing a load of BS isn't patriotism - it's a recipe for dishonesty and disaster - 

Take for example, Samantha Power the US ambassador to the UN - what an embarrassment - IMO she is either a liar or stupid or simply a paid parrot -
behaving like a petulant, aggressive teenager in regards to the emergency UN meeting called by Russia because of the seriousness
of the situation - attack is said to be the best form of defense and  she delivered a crude example -

She must have been under instruction but her disrespectful and unprofessional attitude was pathetic IMO -
and counter productive (which must have been the intention) 

 

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160918/1045422315/samantha-power-obama-russia-syria.html

the United States Ambassador to the United Nations took a truculent tone during the emergency meeting on Saturday accusing Russia of bombing civilians and blaming the Assad regime for the rise of ISIS calling the meeting "grandstanding," a "stunt," and a "game" after 80 Syrian Army forces were killed in a US-Led airstrike.

 

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bee

.

this is an interesting and lively discussion for anyone who's interested -

 

 

Published on Sep 19, 2016

On this edition of CrossTalk we have a look at the issues and problems surrounding the Syrian ceasefire. And, how the US presidential race is changing and evolving.
CrossTalking with Dmitry Babich, Xavier Moreau, and Rory Suchet.

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, bee said:

.

I find it hard to believe that you even believe what you said quoted above ---

The US (and allies like Britain etc) are twisting truth on it's head to try and convince the wider world that they occupy the moral high ground - 

It's patently obvious, though, that they - 'we' - don't - in Syria 'we' are occupying the moral low ground - sadly, very low ground -

I'm as patriotic as the next person - but willfully believing a load of BS isn't patriotism - it's a recipe for dishonesty and disaster - 

Take for example, Samantha Power the US ambassador to the UN - what an embarrassment - IMO she is either a liar or stupid or simply a paid parrot -
behaving like a petulant, aggressive teenager in regards to the emergency UN meeting called by Russia because of the seriousness
of the situation - attack is said to be the best form of defense and  she delivered a crude example -

She must have been under instruction but her disrespectful and unprofessional attitude was pathetic IMO -
and counter productive (which must have been the intention) 

 

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160918/1045422315/samantha-power-obama-russia-syria.html

 

 

Power's response was embarrassing for this nation. Petulant teenager is a great description of her response, the word bully also popped into my mind when I read about how she spent 30 seconds in the meeting and then ran and spent 15 minutes with the press. Of course I dont think her initial response was even covered by the US media. 

 

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, bee said:

.

this is an interesting and lively discussion for anyone who's interested -

 

 

Published on Sep 19, 2016

On this edition of CrossTalk we have a look at the issues and problems surrounding the Syrian ceasefire. And, how the US presidential race is changing and evolving.
CrossTalking with Dmitry Babich, Xavier Moreau, and Rory Suchet.

 Thanks for the share, very interesting conversation I would be interested in seeing how common those views are internationally. 

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Hammerclaw
2 hours ago, bee said:

.

I find it hard to believe that you even believe what you said quoted above ---

The US (and allies like Britain etc) are twisting truth on it's head to try and convince the wider world that they occupy the moral high ground - 

It's patently obvious, though, that they - 'we' - don't - in Syria 'we' are occupying the moral low ground - sadly, very low ground -

I'm as patriotic as the next person - but willfully believing a load of BS isn't patriotism - it's a recipe for dishonesty and disaster - 

Take for example, Samantha Power the US ambassador to the UN - what an embarrassment - IMO she is either a liar or stupid or simply a paid parrot -
behaving like a petulant, aggressive teenager in regards to the emergency UN meeting called by Russia because of the seriousness
of the situation - attack is said to be the best form of defense and  she delivered a crude example -

She must have been under instruction but her disrespectful and unprofessional attitude was pathetic IMO -
and counter productive (which must have been the intention) 

 

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160918/1045422315/samantha-power-obama-russia-syria.html

 

 

Those deaths are regrettable, perhaps. Sor-ry. I have limited sympathy for that same Syrian military filmed dropping barrel bombs on civilians. Moral high ground? There's nothing moral about war. War is cruelty, and there's no way to refine it.

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Farmer77
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Those deaths are regrettable, perhaps. Sor-ry. I have limited sympathy for that same Syrian military filmed dropping barrel bombs on civilians. Moral high ground? There's nothing moral about war. War is cruelty, and there's no way to refine it.

The problem is the US is going around starting wars. There was no war until we started it. 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

The problem is the US is going around starting wars. There was no war until we started it. 

You have your head so far up your backside, you love the view and think the air smells g-o-o-o-o-d.

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Farmer77
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

You have your head so far up your backside, you love the view and think the air smells g-o-o-o-o-d.

So that's your response ? Not an attempt to further the conversation by adding facts but resorting to middle school level insults? Good job representing your position ;)

 

 

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