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supervike

Trumps Tax Returns.

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supervike

Why doesn't he just release the returns?  Even if you are Trump supporter, this lack of transparency has to bother you.

His 'because I'm being audited' story is nonsense.. The IRS has already said this is not an issue.  He claims that he'll release them when the audit is over.  He also has said he is under constant audit, so when will the audit ever really be over?

There is no legal reason compelling him to do so, but since every candidate since the 80's has done so, why doesn't he?

I'm really just curious to know if it bothers Trump supporters and why or why not? 

Please don't deflect it to include "but Hillary does worse things;.  We have plenty of those thread already.

 

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Michelle

:lol: This reminds me of the birther movement. "If Obama has nothing to hide then why doesn't he release his birth certificate?"

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

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third_eye

One Trump supporter explained it to me this way ...

If those tax returns are made public and is no longer a secret ... the Trump Brand and everything it represents ... the Properties ... the Business Ventures ... ceases to exist ... the reason it carries on is a smoke and mirror show ... the juggling of books and entangled bottom lines ... there is always a billion coming from somewhere even when he is two billion short to cover the debts ...

... and that is why the Trumspters love him ... he's gonna show everyone how to be a billionaire with four years ... all they have to do is buy his dream of the oval office for him ...

Nice gig ...

~

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Careful_perspective
6 minutes ago, third_eye said:

One Trump supporter explained it to me this way ...

If those tax returns are made public and is no longer a secret ... the Trump Brand and everything it represents ... the Properties ... the Business Ventures ... ceases to exist ... the reason it carries on is a smoke and mirror show ... the juggling of books and entangled bottom lines ... there is always a billion coming from somewhere even when he is two billion short to cover the debts ...

... and that is why the Trumspters love him ... he's gonna show everyone how to be a billionaire with four years ... all they have to do is buy his dream of the oval office for him ...

Nice gig ...

~

I don't know who you were talking to but I have a lot of Trump supporter fans and none of them believe we will learn to be rich in 4 years. This is like the people who voted for Obama because they thought they would get free things. 

All politicians use smoke and mirrors. So to accuse Trump is laughable. People are voting for Trump because he is a good alternative to the establishment. 

I personally am voting for him because I believe he loves America, and because I genuinely believe he is a decent man. I think a lot of people have the notion of an idealized perfection of an American hero like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. I don't think many people like that exist, most people are shades of gray, and he is just fine enough to do the right thing most of the time. 

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Thanato
14 minutes ago, Michelle said:

:lol: This reminds me of the birther movement. "If Obama has nothing to hide then why doesn't he release his birth certificate?"

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Well the birther movement was non sense. However this has been tradition to show transparency. And since his son said that it would 'destroy his political narrative' there is reason to believe he is hiding something. 

Also he admitted to not paying income tax... which isnt that a crime?

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third_eye
Just now, Rinna said:

I don't know who you were talking to but I have a lot of Trump supporter fans and none of them believe we will learn to be rich in 4 years. This is like the people who voted for Obama because they thought they would get free things. 

All politicians use smoke and mirrors. So to accuse Trump is laughable. People are voting for Trump because he is a good alternative to the establishment. 

Hey ... just passing on what the fella was into and why ... from what I know he's one of those 'big time big shot' entrepreneurs ... "champagne wishes and caviar dreams."

 

Just now, Rinna said:

I personally am voting for him because I believe he loves America, and because I genuinely believe he is a decent man. I think a lot of people have the notion of an idealized perfection of an American hero like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. I don't think many people like that exist, most people are shades of gray, and he is just fine enough to do the right thing most of the time. 

And I'm not here to say you are here right or wrong ... hey ~ I'm outside the fishbowl and that there is here's what I see from what I can see ~

~

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Michelle
1 minute ago, Thanato said:

Well the birther movement was non sense. However this has been tradition to show transparency. And since his son said that it would 'destroy his political narrative' there is reason to believe he is hiding something. 

Also he admitted to not paying income tax... which isnt that a crime?

It was also claimed Obama was the first pres candidate to ever be questioned on his place of birth, which wasn't true.

I don't know that Trump said he didn't pay any income tax. There are a lot of legal loopholes I'm sure his accountants have utilized that would infuriate people. People, who are not in his tax bracket, couldn't possibly fathom all of the legal right offs that can be taken advantage of. Like Rinna said, it would be twisted for the low information voters to use against him.

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Careful_perspective
4 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Hey ... just passing on what the fella was into and why ... from what I know he's one of those 'big time big shot' entrepreneurs ... "champagne wishes and caviar dreams."

 

And I'm not here to say you are here right or wrong ... hey ~ I'm outside the fishbowl and that there is here's what I see from what I can see ~

~

Haha! I understand, sorry if I was rude. 

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third_eye
Just now, Rinna said:

Haha! I understand, sorry if I was rude. 

No harm no foul .. I understand emotion runs high with this topic ... :yes:

 

~

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Keel M.
5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I don't know that Trump said he didn't pay any income tax. There are a lot of legal loopholes I'm sure his accountants have utilized that would infuriate people. People, who are not in his tax bracket, couldn't possibly fathom all of the legal right offs that can be taken advantage of. Like Rinna said, it would be twisted for the low information voters to use against him.

Monday night, Clinton made a remark about him not paying any federal taxes, to which he responded, "That makes me smart."

Just because you're an outsider doesn't mean you can immediately rewrite the rules - written or otherwise - on what political candidates traditionally do. If they traditionally release their tax returns, then you do it. Otherwise it just looks like you're doing what every other politician does: avoid the truth. Which is kinda counter-intuitive to what he thinks he's trying to accomplish as an "outsider".

Edited by Child of Bast
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Careful_perspective
1 minute ago, Child of Bast said:

Monday night, Clinton made a remark about him not paying any federal taxes, to which he responded, "That makes me smart."

Just because you're an outsider doesn't mean you can immediately rewrite the rules - written or otherwise - on what political candidates traditionally do. If they traditionally release their tax returns, then you do it. Otherwise it just looks like you're doing what every other politician does: avoid the truth. Which is kinda counter-intuitive to what he thinks he's trying to accomplish as an "outsider".

Not all of them have done it. And honestly, he's only done what pretty much every person in American does, we try our very best to utilize every tax loophole so we get the most back in returns and pay as little as possible! 

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Michelle

Still sounds just like the birther movement Democrats thought was so stupid.

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Claire.

There is no legal requirement for presidential candidates to release their tax returns, but the issue of transparency is nonetheless an important one, especially following Nixon's tax shenanigans in the 1960s. But it's more important in Trump's case because his entire campaign rests on his experience and performance as a businessman.

His is not a record in politics; public affairs, or the military - it's a record in business. His story about the audit might very well be true, but without his tax returns, it will be difficult to gauge his character, his possible dealings with foreign interests, and whether or not he's as brilliant and successful as he claims to be.

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third_eye

Something that may be helpful to the discussions here that was raised in the initial discussion I mentioned earlier ...

 

Quote

 

Presidential Tax Returns

Individual income tax returns — including those of public figures — are private information, protected by law from unauthorized disclosure. Indeed, the Internal Revenue Service is barred from releasing any taxpayer information whatsoever, except to authorized agencies and individuals.

Like all other citizens, U.S. presidents enjoy this protection of their privacy. Since the early 1970s, however, most presidents have chosen to release their returns publicly. In the hope of making this information more widely available, the Tax History Project at Tax Analysts has compiled an archive of presidential tax returns.


In addition, we have made available returns from recent candidates for president, including those running in party primaries. The Tax History Project is currently compiling a more complete archive of candidate returns, and we welcome suggestions on who to include and where to find additional returns.

 

  • Tax History Project link

~


:lol: Rense is not loading for me and giving out time outs ... I guess a lot of people are logging on to it .. .see if you guys can get at it ...

Quote


The Law They Hope You Never Read - Rense.com

Everyone knows you must pay federal income taxes. ... Most Americans have never seen the law that requires them to file a return, and most have ... To tax each and every endeavor within the states is to regulate ALL activity, and where is the ...

 

 

~

 

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Deleted
43 minutes ago, Michelle said:

:lol: This reminds me of the birther movement. "If Obama has nothing to hide then why doesn't he release his birth certificate?"

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

No it is not same. Since no one ever asked any white president for his birth certificate, so this "movement" was only based on pure racism.

Secondly since the 80s every president has made his tx return public, but Trump for some mystical unknown reason doesn't have to?

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Regi
13 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Still sounds just like the birther movement Democrats thought was so stupid.

I'm thinking most people thought that was stupid.

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Michelle
6 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

No it is not same. Since no one ever asked any white president for his birth certificate, so this "movement" was only based on pure racism.

Secondly since the 80s every president has made his tx return public, but Trump for some mystical unknown reason doesn't have to?

And you would be wrong. There was a huge debate about John McCain being born on a military base in Panama.

It isn't legally required for a presidential candidate to show tax records. It isn't legally required for them to show school records either, which contrary to many, Obama did not.

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Thorvir
11 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

No it is not same. Since no one ever asked any white president for his birth certificate, so this "movement" was only based on pure racism.

The only thing racist about it is you claiming it's racist.  Well done with that bit of tripe.

11 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

Secondly since the 80s every president has made his tx return public, but Trump for some mystical unknown reason doesn't have to?

He doesn't have to.  None of them had to.  If he does, fine.  If he doesn't, fine.  If you're going to complain about this from your quaint little spot outside of the country you're criticizing, at least educate yourself on how things actually work before spouting off.  Try that for once.

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Regi
11 minutes ago, hellwyr said:

Secondly since the 80s every president has made his tx return public, but Trump for some mystical unknown reason doesn't have to?

Well, he's insistent that it has to be a wait-and-see type of thing.

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Deleted

Well that is your opinion. fact is that this "movement" delivered arguments like that Obama's father wasn't born in the US, that his name sounds islamic.... and so on. Propably, most of those people also believed he was the anti-christ (lol).  Also you can be born out of country and still be an US citizen.

And no it is not required by law to put forth your tax return. However as the OP said it was done by all presidents (since the 80s), so you could say it was normal up until Trump.

So, Trump was so eager to see Obama's birth certificate, also he demands more transparency (Clinton's emails). But when it comes to himself he lacks the decency to offer that transparancy.

 

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supervike
38 minutes ago, Rinna said:

Not all of them have done it. And honestly, he's only done what pretty much every person in American does, we try our very best to utilize every tax loophole so we get the most back in returns and pay as little as possible! 

Right.  I can't fault him for utilizing tax loopholes and ways to minimize his tax bill.   That's the systems that is flawed that allows uber rich people to do such things.  He'd be an idiot not to play the game correctly.

 

But, regardless, we don't know that because he won't release them.

I'm just surprised supporters aren't asking him to do it as well.  Swing voters are troubled by the issue.

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Regi
15 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

If he does, fine.  If he doesn't, fine. 

Fine with you, that is but since there's resistance, then personally, I'd wonder the reason why.

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Regi
4 minutes ago, supervike said:

I can't fault him for utilizing tax loopholes and ways to minimize his tax bill.   That's the systems that is flawed that allows uber rich people to do such things.  He'd be an idiot not to play the game correctly.

I've never to my knowledge taken advantage of "loopholes".... Just sayin'.

Edited by regi
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Michelle
3 minutes ago, regi said:

I've never to my knowledge taken advantage of "loopholes".... Just sayin'.

For people like us, it would be more like buying toilet paper for the business and taking a couple of rolls home. :P

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