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supervike

Trumps Tax Returns.

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BTW accoridng to a CNN poll 61 % of Trump supporters do care about Trump's tax return.

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supervike
1 hour ago, Michelle said:

:lol: This reminds me of the birther movement. "If Obama has nothing to hide then why doesn't he release his birth certificate?"

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Maybe so.  But Obama did release his Birth Certificate prior to the 2008 election.

The GOP candidate has released their returns since the 70's.  Including Nixon, who was being audited.

 

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supervike
5 minutes ago, regi said:

I've never to my knowledge taken advantage of "loopholes".... Just sayin'.

Well, I'm using the term  'loopholes' to mean lots of things, from claiming deductions for charitable items, claiming depreciation on vehicles, etc. etc.

I'm sure he has a gaggle of lawyers that do nothing but look for ways to chop down his tax bill.

Had I the ability to do so, I'd do it as well.

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supervike
4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

For people like us, it would be more like buying toilet paper for the business and taking a couple of rolls home. :P

That's a poop-loop-hole.:o

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Regi
Just now, supervike said:

Well, I'm using the term  'loopholes' to mean lots of things, from claiming deductions for charitable items, claiming depreciation on vehicles, etc. etc.

I'm sure he has a gaggle of lawyers that do nothing but look for ways to chop down his tax bill.

Had I the ability to do so, I'd do it as well.

What I meant was that I've always paid what I think is my fair share, which is exactly what I think I'm obligated to do!

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Buzz_Light_Year

Trump is currently being audited by the IRS, which is a routine audit. This information has been public knowledge since March of 2016.

To release his tax returns before the audit is complete would be foolish.

There's plenty of information on the internet to verify this.

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supervike
1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

 

To release his tax returns before the audit is complete would be foolish.

 

Why is it foolish?  

 

The IRS itself claims there would be no issue with it.

 

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Buzz_Light_Year
Just now, supervike said:

Why is it foolish?  

 

The IRS itself claims there would be no issue with it.

 

If the IRS audit finds discrepancies for or against Trump then the released tax returns wouldn't be accurate and that would start another **** storm of accusations from the press.

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skliss
Just now, Michelle said:

:lol: This reminds me of the birther movement. "If Obama has nothing to hide then why doesn't he release his birth certificate?"

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Buuuuutttt.....not being born in the U.S. disqualifies a person to be POTUS...... not showing your tax returns doesn't.

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Big Jim

Personally I don't care if he releases them or not.  Ever since the issue came up I've had the same opinion as Buzz L Y, that until the audit is complete his tax return is subject to revision.  It may be ok with the IRS but they're not the ones being audited.  Let's not forget that the IRS has been used as a political hit squad against conservatives.  Even though he says he gets audited every year this one may be different since he's running against Obama's anointed successor.  It's quite possible that is what is delaying the audit's completion.  

Traditions are not rules.  Something that has occurred only 5 times in the last 36 years hardly qualifies as a deep rooted part of the culture.  I think the reason it's become such a big issue is because the Democrats always portray the wealthy as the enemy in their class warfare tactics and they could use it as a weapon.  The comments online from the anti Trump crowd always point to his wealth as a negative.  So Trump might be making a smart move by holding off on showing his taxes.  Better to endure a little controversy than give your opponent something concrete to use against you.  It doesn't mean there is anything to hide, just that it would stir up class envy.  There are plenty of people who hate the rich and the richer you are the more they hate you.  The irony of the fact that they would trade places in an instant with the object of their hate is lost on them.

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Michelle
2 hours ago, supervike said:

Maybe so.  But Obama did release his Birth Certificate prior to the 2008 election.

If I'm not mistaken, he didn't publicly release his BC until 2011.

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Thorvir
2 hours ago, supervike said:

Right.  I can't fault him for utilizing tax loopholes and ways to minimize his tax bill.   That's the systems that is flawed that allows uber rich people to do such things.  He'd be an idiot not to play the game correctly.

Exactly.

2 hours ago, supervike said:

But, regardless, we don't know that because he won't release them.

I'm just surprised supporters aren't asking him to do it as well.  Swing voters are troubled by the issue.

Because it's not important?  By your own words, you can't fault him for utilizing tax loopholes, so his tax returns are therefor not important...but you want his supporters to force him to show his tax returns?  Why?  What are you hoping to see?

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Regi
1 hour ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

If the IRS audit finds discrepancies for or against Trump then the released tax returns wouldn't be accurate and that would start another **** storm of accusations from the press.

But I wouldn't expect there would show discrepancies...In other words I'd certainly expect that he'd have filed an accurate return to start with.

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supervike
8 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Exactly.

Because it's not important?  By your own words, you can't fault him for utilizing tax loopholes, so his tax returns are therefor not important...but you want his supporters to force him to show his tax returns?  Why?  What are you hoping to see?

But it is important.    Supporters and swing voters alike should be clamoring for this.

 

The amount he pays is just one of the tiny tiny parts that the public should have a right to know, before they hire him to be the most powerful man in the World.

Tax returns can show a ton of stuff, not limited to, but most importantly, conflicts of interests.

Every candidate since the late 70's has done so.  Purposefully for this very reason.

Maybe he's on the payroll of Russians KGB?  Maybe he helps the mob launder money?

He could put an end to that by just complying with the precedent. 

 

I'm hoping to see that he follows protocol and is honest enough to show that he's not hiding anything.  I don't think that is too much to ask.

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Thorvir
3 minutes ago, supervike said:

But it is important.    Supporters and swing voters alike should be clamoring for this.

But it's not important.  It's not a rule that has to be followed.  Demanding Trump to do this is absurd.  He will if he feels like it, and nothing else will change that.  If he does, great.  If he doesn't, great.

Quote

The amount he pays is just one of the tiny tiny parts that the public should have a right to know, before they hire him to be the most powerful man in the World.

Tax returns can show a ton of stuff, not limited to, but most importantly, conflicts of interests.

Every candidate since the late 70's has done so.  Purposefully for this very reason.

Maybe he's on the payroll of Russians KGB?  Maybe he helps the mob launder money?

He could put an end to that by just complying with the precedent. 

Or he could just blow it off as an unimportant distraction.

What do you want to be found?

Quote

I'm hoping to see that he follows protocol and is honest enough to show that he's not hiding anything.  I don't think that is too much to ask.

Protocol?  It's not a rule for being POTUS.  He doesn't have to show his tax returns.  Where do you get it being protocol?

And to add, you just posted that you wouldn't fault him for utilizing loopholes...yet, you want him to release his tax returns anyway?  Again, for what reason, what are you hoping to find?

Edited by Thorvir Hrothgaard

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supervike
39 minutes ago, Michelle said:

If I'm not mistaken, he didn't publicly release his BC until 2011.

You aren't mistaken very often, but I think he released the original one in June of 2008.  Then, there were years long claims of 'FAKE' and 'We meant the long form'

 

Here's what factcheck.org says:

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

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.ZZ.

I think he should have released them months ago to put an end to all of this.

When people say "He isn't as rich as he says he says and his returns will show that!" falls flat with me. What would be revealed is not necessarily net worth, but his business dealings and "charitable contributions"  which would be of more importance IMO. Are they expecting to see bank account information?

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Michelle
29 minutes ago, regi said:

But I wouldn't expect there would show discrepancies...In other words I'd certainly expect that he'd have filed an accurate return to start with.

How would you know if there were any discrepancies? You would have to have personal business records on every transaction to know that.

12 minutes ago, supervike said:

Maybe he's on the payroll of Russians KGB?  Maybe he helps the mob launder money?

I'll give you the conflict of interests, but this?!?! I've never seen a "nefarious income" line on any tax return. :lol:

 

8 minutes ago, supervike said:

You aren't mistaken very often, but I think he released the original one in June of 2008.  Then, there were years long claims of 'FAKE' and 'We meant the long form'

 

Here's what factcheck.org says:

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

Thank you.;) I still think there will be calls of "FAKE" or "omitted facts" like with Obama's BC. Many people still think he wasn't born in the US. There is photo shop and all of that don't ya know...as Sarah Palin would say.

Edited by Michelle
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supervike
1 minute ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

But it's not important.  It's not a rule that has to be followed.  Demanding Trump to do this is absurd.  He will if he feels like it, and nothing else will change that.  If he does, great.  If he doesn't, great.

Or he could just blow it off as an unimportant distraction.

What do you want to be found?

Protocol?  It's not a rule for being POTUS.  He doesn't have to show his tax returns.  Where do you get it being protocol?

It's is important for the reasons I just stated.

Voters WANT to know this.  Voters NEED to know if he has any conflicts of interests.  How is that unimportant?

 

Here is a quote about it.

"It is disqualifying for a modern-day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters, especially one who has not been subject to public scrutiny in either military or public service. Tax returns provide the public with its sole confirmation of the veracity of a candidate’s representations regarding charities, priorities, wealth, tax conformance, and conflicts of interest. Further, while not a likely circumstance, the potential for hidden inappropriate associations with foreign entities, criminal organizations, or other unsavory groups is simply too great a risk to ignore for someone who is seeking to become commander-in-chief."

 

That's not some left-winged liberal saying that, that's Mitt Romney.  There is a long line of Conservatives saying these same things.

 

And to answer the question again, what I want to be found is that he doesn't have any conflicts of interests.  It doesn't matter to me if he paid zero in taxes.   Don't you think it would be important to know if he's on the dole from China before he starts negotiations with them?  

 

And it is protocol, because every Presidential candidate has done if for decades.  The same way it was protocol for Obama to 'bow' or not 'bow' in the presence of foreign royals.  Protocol just means an official way of doing something.  This has been protocol for decades.

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Zenith
3 hours ago, Clair said:

There is no legal requirement for presidential candidates to release their tax returns, but the issue of transparency is nonetheless an important one, especially following Nixon's tax shenanigans in the 1960s. But it's more important in Trump's case because his entire campaign rests on his experience and performance as a businessman.

His is not a record in politics; public affairs, or the military - it's a record in business. His story about the audit might very well be true, but without his tax returns, it will be difficult to gauge his character, his possible dealings with foreign interests, and whether or not he's as brilliant and successful as he claims to be.

I hate to admit it but you're right. Trump has built his entire persona and reputation around his businesses and yep that's all we have to go by. So from that perspective I would definitely like to see his returns. But it's his choice to release them, and if I were him, I wouldn't lay myself bare like that even if I didn't have anything to hide. But yeah, i hear ya ...he should put his money where his mouth is

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Thorvir
1 minute ago, supervike said:

And it is protocol, because every Presidential candidate has done if for decades.

So?  That doesn't make it protocol.  That just makes it something some POTUS candidates decided to do.  He still may end up doing it, but it's not important one way or the other.

1 minute ago, supervike said:

 The same way it was protocol for Obama to 'bow' or not 'bow' in the presence of foreign royals.  Protocol just means an official way of doing something.  This has been protocol for decades.

It hasn't been "protocol" at all.  It's more like tradition. I think that's where your getting confused.

3 minutes ago, supervike said:

Voters WANT to know this.  Voters NEED to know if he has any conflicts of interests.  How is that unimportant?

You claims VOTERS. You should be typing "a few voters".  Not everyone thinks this is important as you do.  It's not important to me and others as displayed in this very thread.

Few swing voters are holding out and waiting for displayed tax returns...there are far more important issues about his campaign than just mere tax returns.

3 minutes ago, supervike said:

Here is a quote about it.

"It is disqualifying for a modern-day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters, especially one who has not been subject to public scrutiny in either military or public service. Tax returns provide the public with its sole confirmation of the veracity of a candidate’s representations regarding charities, priorities, wealth, tax conformance, and conflicts of interest. Further, while not a likely circumstance, the potential for hidden inappropriate associations with foreign entities, criminal organizations, or other unsavory groups is simply too great a risk to ignore for someone who is seeking to become commander-in-chief."

Nice quote...but, so what?

3 minutes ago, supervike said:

That's not some left-winged liberal saying that, that's Mitt Romney.  There is a long line of Conservatives saying these same things.

Again, so what?  We already know that he's not popular with the mainstream conservative conclave in government.

3 minutes ago, supervike said:

And to answer the question again, what I want to be found is that he doesn't have any conflicts of interests.

 It doesn't matter to me if he paid zero in taxes.

Talk about a conflict in interests....sheesh.

3 minutes ago, supervike said:

 Don't you think it would be important to know if he's on the dole from China before he starts negotiations with them?  

How will that show up in a tax return, by the way.  You already claimed he wasn't an idiot.  You think that will show up in a tax return?  You think that an IRS audit won't find out something like that anyway?

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Agent0range
4 hours ago, Michelle said:

:lol: This reminds me of the birther movement. "If Obama has nothing to hide then why doesn't he release his birth certificate?"

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Right.  Because every candidate in the past 40 years released their tax returns, and only one candidate ever was berated until they showed a birth certificate to prove they were born in the United States.  Wow, Michelle!  You're right!  Those things sound almost exactly the same!

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Zenith

Okay wait, are we talking business returns or personal? Because personal will probably not show much of anything anyway. Business returns would be more revealing.

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Michelle
13 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Right.  Because every candidate in the past 40 years released their tax returns, and only one candidate ever was berated until they showed a birth certificate to prove they were born in the United States.  Wow, Michelle!  You're right!  Those things sound almost exactly the same!

How quickly people forget John McCain. Of course, the media didn't bleat about that nearly as much so why would they remember?. Every person that runs for pres has to be vetted and show a BC. It didn't help that Obama, Barry Soros or whoever, wasn't exactly up front from the beginning.

 

 

Edited by Michelle
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Thorvir

Before you respond again, supervike, just know that I have officially stopped caring.  Trump is a big boy, if he wants to show his returns, then it's up to him and no one else.  It's not protocol, it's just his wish to do so or not.

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