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supervike

Trumps Tax Returns.

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DieChecker
13 hours ago, regi said:

I'm just saying that I'd expect that he'd file an accurate return; I wouldn't expect that he'd file a return which he didn't think was accurate.

I'd expect him to provide his return and in the meantime, inform the public that he believes that the IRS audit will (further) determine that it's accurate. 

I've not read Trump's Book, Art of the Deal, but from what I've heard, I'd not be surprised if Trump knowingly fudges his tax returns year after year, and then haggles for some amount in between what he filed and what he probably should owe. It would save him money and be just like the book says is his nature. 

We've seen this during the whole campaign. He makes a grand statement and then haggles toward the middle over time, appearing to loose ground, but really still being in the black as far as he is concerned.

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DieChecker
13 hours ago, Zenith said:

You know I gotta say that I'm surprised at the Trump supporters. Since you're planning on voting for the guy why wouldn't you want to see his returns. I know I would because seriously there's not that much more we can go on.

Every president has since 1980, I hear, yet, I........ an intelligent (?) voter who cares if I am being lied to, has 0 times since I became a voter in 1987, checked what the presidential candidates taxes said. 

It's a non-issue, except to people looking for dirt. 

Edited by DieChecker
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DieChecker
6 hours ago, F3SS said:

No that's not what I argued against. The post I quoted seems to state that he'd expect a tip-top tax return. While it may be near perfect anyways it'll still be likely to have a discrepancy which is why it's a losing prospect for Trump. If the return isn't in perfect agreeance with the irs they'll blast him for lying and being stupid. I don't really care about the return because if after decades in the limelight as a braggadocios rich guy I'm sure we'd have known long ago if he was a tax cheat while on the other hand I expect nothing on his returns to list dealings with the KGB or the Mafia as those are things one simply does not report to the irs.

My suspicion is that Trump will release his taxes at about the two week to the Election mark. Then when everything looks good, people will all wonder why they were so suspicious of him. It will give him a final straightaway bump in popularity, and perhaps give him that 1% increase in turnout which would put him over the top. 

I'd not be surprised if there was some basis like that behind withholding the taxes.

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DieChecker
18 hours ago, supervike said:

Why doesn't he just release the returns?  Even if you are Trump supporter, this lack of transparency has to bother you.

His 'because I'm being audited' story is nonsense.. The IRS has already said this is not an issue.  He claims that he'll release them when the audit is over.  He also has said he is under constant audit, so when will the audit ever really be over?

There is no legal reason compelling him to do so, but since every candidate since the 80's has done so, why doesn't he?

I'm really just curious to know if it bothers Trump supporters and why or why not? 

Please don't deflect it to include "but Hillary does worse things;.  We have plenty of those thread already.

 

It doesn't bother me. I would agree with the poster (EDIT: Third Eye) who said that perhaps he thinks it will cause him undue issues, much like Hillary refusing to release healthcare records, which might show she's too frail for the rigors of the office of US President.

Like I said in a previous post, I think he probably haggles for a settlement value, not what he really owes, and so he actually pays less. Perfectly logical and legal, but perhaps unethical.

However, I also suspect that he has some kind of plan, to release the tax records in the 12th hour to make him look good right at the end.

Edited by DieChecker

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DieChecker
14 hours ago, supervike said:

Tax returns can show a ton of stuff, not limited to, but most importantly, conflicts of interests.

...

Maybe he's on the payroll of Russians KGB?  Maybe he helps the mob launder money?

And those things are on a tax return? Mob money and foreign bribes?

Also, I don't think there would necessarily be conflicts of interest shown on the tax returns... bank statements, yes, but not tax returns. You just fill in the numbers, you don't have to write paragraphs about where the money came from.

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DieChecker
18 hours ago, Thanato said:

Also he admitted to not paying income tax... which isnt that a crime?

He said he didn't pay the going rate.... Neither do I. I get money back each year, due to my huge mortgage and the fact I give to lots of charities each year. But, if I hoarded my money and lived in an apartment, I'd be paying thousands of dollars in tax every year. Does that make me evil? Or am I simply getting the benefit of private home ownership and the benefit of donating to worthy causes. It doesn't take much to knock a tax return from owing a bunch to owing nothing. I'm sure that if you were to check into it, Trump and the Trump Foundation, very likely provide a ton of credits and deductions. Where the credits come in after the tax is figured.

Hillary only had to pay tax because she doesn't have a real estate empire like Trump does. If she controlled as much real estate (privately) as Trump does, she'd not pay any tax either.

Edited by DieChecker

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DieChecker
17 hours ago, hellwyr said:

No it is not same. Since no one ever asked any white president for his birth certificate, so this "movement" was only based on pure racism.

That's like saying Bernie Sanders lost because of Anti-Jewish sentiment. You're making a Causation result from a simple Correlation. Which may, or may not be true. The fact you think it is obvious is simply your opinion, not a fact.

Fact: Hillary Clinton has never rode on a tiger.

False Result: Hillary Clinton lost/won because she never rode on a tiger.

It's a logical fallacy, used when facts aren't enough to support an otherwise logical position.

Edited by DieChecker

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White Unicorn
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

He said he didn't pay the going rate.... Neither do I. I get money back each year, due to my huge mortgage and the fact I give to lots of charities each year. But, if I hoarded my money and lived in an apartment, I'd be paying thousands of dollars in tax every year. Does that make me evil? Or am I simply getting the benefit of private home ownership and the benefit of donating to worthy causes. It doesn't take much to knock a tax return from owing a bunch to owing nothing. I'm sure that if you were to check into it, Trump and the Trump Foundation, very likely provide a ton of credits and deductions. Where the credits come in after the tax is figured.

Hillary only had to pay tax because she doesn't have a real estate empire like Trump does. If she controlled as much real estate (privately) as Trump does, she'd not pay any tax either.

You're right about using IRS laws to your advantage for credits and deductions is smart and not a crime. Using conflicts of interest, a  private foundation, and multiple businesses of different structures and international trade is not allowable for any politician. It is a crime when discovered.

When it's about Trump or Clinton,  it is more about public disclosure for political office. I still hold a state political appointment, you take an oath and sign that you won't have any self dealings with yourself and family, conflicts of interest, dealings with foreign leaders that may benefit you for financial gain or even anything that could be construed as such by the public. Keeping that in mind you must realize Clinton revealed years of personal and foundation's taxes which were scrutinized very deeply for any possible conflicts of interest. Trump has not. 

Trump has said he would give the businesses to his children to run. Family would still be considered conflict of interest if he were president. Other wealthy presidents set up trusts with  the trustees being strangers while in office, to avoid conflict of interest of policies that would effect the profits of their stocks,businesses and foundations.

Trump has many foreign business dealings through the foundation and multiple businesses to scrutinize dealings with foreign leaders. 

Trump when caught in the lie of audit as a reason for not releasing them, said his attorneys advised him not to do that. I believe this is true. Remember Al Capone and it was IRS violations that imprisoned him not his mob dealings in the end. 

Trump deals with many internationals etc which as president he would have to walk away from the control. His released taxes could show he wasn't really charitable with personal wealth and would show his true character. Just studying the required released information of his foundation has opened a can of worms. His multiple lawsuits are public as well. I even heard about a reporter going to Cuba and discovered Casino dealings through companies and foundation while Castro was still in control. If that is true he has committed a serious crime prior to campaigning for election. He hasn't been transparent for good reasons in my opinion. 

 

 

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Regi
11 hours ago, F3SS said:

A multi-venture capitalist involved with hundreds of businesses simply cannot and will not file a pitch perfect return. There will be an irs discrepancy or two no matter what. That's hardly a mark of trying to pull one over on the feds. When the tax code fills up a 90,000 page book discrepancies are pretty much at the will and whim of the irs. 

It's the return he filed and so I'd expect him to be confident that it's accurate.

 

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F3SS
2 hours ago, regi said:

It's the return he filed and so I'd expect him to be confident that it's accurate.

 

I'm sure the return his lawyers and accountants prep for him are pretty good. They'd have to be. Their certifications and cpa licenses are on the line.

It's not like he uses TurboTax at home. 

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Deleted
8 hours ago, DieChecker said:

That's like saying Bernie Sanders lost because of Anti-Jewish sentiment. You're making a Causation result from a simple Correlation. Which may, or may not be true. The fact you think it is obvious is simply your opinion, not a fact.

Fact: Hillary Clinton has never rode on a tiger.

False Result: Hillary Clinton lost/won because she never rode on a tiger.

It's a logical fallacy, used when facts aren't enough to support an otherwise logical position.

It is not since people of that movement used arguments like :" look at his name, look at his father, he might be muslem.." blabla And even if he wasn't born in the US, the fact remains that he was elected by the majority of people, which gives him enough legatimicy to run the US. The law states otherwise, though. However, only sore losers react the why Trump did and try to find a way to underminde the will of the people.

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RavenHawk

I'm probably just echoing what Rinna stated but I am not so bothered if he doesn't release his taxes.  The truth is, he probably doesn't pay much in taxes.  Am I supposed to be offended by that?  Someone who has learned how to use the rules established by the Progressives to his advantage?  That's the point to having rules.  How can he be cheating?  Is he paying someone in the IRS under the table?  That isn't likely.

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supervike
4 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I'm probably just echoing what Rinna stated but I am not so bothered if he doesn't release his taxes.  The truth is, he probably doesn't pay much in taxes.  Am I supposed to be offended by that?  Someone who has learned how to use the rules established by the Progressives to his advantage?  That's the point to having rules.  How can he be cheating?  Is he paying someone in the IRS under the table?  That isn't likely.

The amount he pays, or the rate he pays, is probably the least important part of his return.  It's who he gets his money from, how much he's claiming as income, what charities does he pay to, and what he's taking for deductions that is more important.

The conflict of interest thing is pretty important.  I'm surprised how many people brush this off as 'digging dirt'.

 

By the same token, Hillary should have never released any health records, since there really is not a need to do so, and anyone wanting to look is just digging for dirt.

And, again, for clarity again, I will not vote for Hillary, but I think her tax returns AND health report are important bits of information we'd need before hiring her.

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Varelse

OK, I'll give some weight to not making the whole return public. His ongoing deals can take years to complete so I don't mind if he keeps the nuts and bolts secret. He could have a top international accounting firm certify his commercial and charitable organization(s) are financially healthy and absent of any fraud, illegal tax dodges, or condos in Cuba and I'll take that. don't care if he's an **** anymore, she's a Broom Hilldy. I know she's a flipping power hungry politician anxious to swing her new political bat into someone's head. Pretty sure she would make a deal with the devil if there was one. Bad thing is, if there was a devil, it would probably be Trump.  

Prove he's worth all the clean, hard earned billions and I won't care that he dodged the draft, treats women like he was a 17 yr old jock or talks like a WWE star. That's all I need, proof he's truly a business genius and I'll vote for him on that accord.   

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Frank Merton

I think I might respect Trump if he said, "none of your business," but, instead, he claims he can't because he's being audited, in spite of the IRS making it clear he is under no such burden.  This is outrageous and makes me question his sanity, since anyone who is informed knows better.

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Likely Guy
7 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

I think I might respect Trump if he said, "none of your business," but, instead, he claims he can't because he's being audited, in spite of the IRS making it clear he is under no such burden.  This is outrageous and makes me question his sanity, since anyone who is informed knows better.

I think he said during the debate that because he was being audited his lawyers advised him not to release them.

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Frank Merton
18 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

I think he said during the debate that because he was being audited his lawyers advised him not to release them.

Quite so, and it was a lie.

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pbarosso

i dont care if anyone releases their income taxes.

 

when clinton fully discloses that clinton foundation balance sheet and names i will care about trumps taxes.

 

this is clear distraction from the scandals that plague clinton i mean criminal clinton

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Frank Merton
4 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Quite so, and it was a lie.

I can imagine a lawyer advising him to keep his returns secret, but not because of audits.  The IRS has made that clear.  It does indicate he is hiding things, though, which is his right.  I can see why he doesn't want to say as much, even though it is pretty obvious, but to make up such a lame excuse and then stick with it in spite of being flatly contradicted is just wierd.

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Frank Merton
Just now, Frank Merton said:

I can imagine a lawyer advising him to keep his returns secret, but not because of audits.  The IRS has made that clear.  It does indicate he is hiding things, though, which is his right.  I can see why he doesn't want to say as much, even though it is pretty obvious, but to make up such a lame excuse and then stick with it in spite of being flatly contradicted is just weird.

 

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F3SS
3 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Quite so, and it was a lie.

Oh? You know his lawyers never advised that? I've never heard him claim he can't release them because the irs says so. He's always just said he can;t or won't while they're under audit. Lot's of things are legal to do and share but that doesn't mean you would or should.

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supervike
5 minutes ago, pbarosso said:

i dont care if anyone releases their income taxes.

 

when clinton fully discloses that clinton foundation balance sheet and names i will care about trumps taxes.

 

this is clear distraction from the scandals that plague clinton i mean criminal clinton

I don't know anything about Clintons' foundation balance sheet, but if it's a precedent that's been set, and it she's dodging it, she should do it.

 

But, this is only a distraction, because the Donald is making it so.  

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Frank Merton
7 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Oh? You know his lawyers never advised that? I've never heard him claim he can't release them because the irs says so. He's always just said he can;t or won't while they're under audit. Lot's of things are legal to do and share but that doesn't mean you would or should.

Of course it was a lie.  No lawyer worth his fee is going to tell you things they know are not true.  He lies about a lot of things, and I just can't see why people still support him.  If you can't see that I have to dismiss you, as you are beyond reason.

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F3SS
35 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Of course it was a lie.  No lawyer worth his fee is going to tell you things they know are not true.  He lies about a lot of things, and I just can't see why people still support him.  If you can't see that I have to dismiss you, as you are beyond reason.

Frank his lawyers advised him not to release the returns before the audit is complete. How is that telling things that aren't true? Who's beyond reason here? You keep beating the dead horse of a false premise.

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Thorvir
1 hour ago, Frank Merton said:

Of course it was a lie.  No lawyer worth his fee is going to tell you things they know are not true.  He lies about a lot of things, and I just can't see why people still support him.  If you can't see that I have to dismiss you, as you are beyond reason.

The irony is, the above statement is itself, a lie.  And unsurprising.

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