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supervike

Trumps Tax Returns.

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White Unicorn
9 hours ago, supervike said:

Really?  Was the governor of a state for 8 years, successfully.  Couldn't run for a third term, due to term limits.  Left the state with a large surplus in the budget.  Cut taxes 14 times.  Never raised them once.  Limited the size and scope of the Government.  Oversaw Major changes to the health care of the state, as well as major road upgrades.

Was a successful business man, growing his own one man construction company to a 1000 person corporation.

He runs marathons, triathalons,  he's climbed all of the seven summits.

He's succeeded in his personal, business, and political life.  How is any of that not suitable?  

Meanwhile, the people 'suited' to be President is a guy who used his Daddy's money to own (and bankrupt) countless companies.  The man uses a gaggle of lawyers to bully and shut up critics.  He wakes up at 3 in the morning, to tweet insults to a former Mrs Universe.  Has zero respect for women.

The other one, who has been drummed as the 'candidate' for decades, despite the public not wanting her.  Has been accused of everything from fraud to treason, never really accomplished anything in her time in the senate, had an arguably disastrous run as Sec. of State.  

 

Johnson is NOT a perfect candidate.  He's got flaws, maybe some inexperience on the international level, but he represents absolute real change to our country.  He also doesn't come with the cringe factor that Trump has or the baggage that Clinton carries.   And, unfortunately, he doesn't stand a chance because of the machine that runs our two party system, and American's ability to see anything beyond that.

It's too bad that we can't take a chance on a more positive future.   So ultimately, I know I'm throwing my vote away.  But my real hope is that my vote, and those that vote with me, will help a third option solidify.  Maybe someday we can break this two party stranglehold and have real change.

 

 

You're being honest to vote for your  choice even if people say you are throwing your vote away. 

Gary Johnson is honest and has done well as Governor etc but he  lacks in foreign affairs. He wasn't briefed as the other two. If he were elected he would rely heavily on others and study up on it, and probably make good decisions with common sense. I'd rather see him get elected than Trump. 

I confess I voted for Bernie because he is honest with experience knowing the political systems well. He got labeled as a Communist. He's a union supporter. Some Unions turned bad  with corruption just as in politics but still an average worker benefited  much by their dues and help in fighting employer issues, common blue collar issues were addressed. Bernie is a crusader in politics against corporate and political corruption. Being a whistleblower  banker I got to talk with him and several other politicians in 2007 and 2008 as well as the regulators and FBI.

I'm an independent voter but registered Democratic to vote in primaries since my local candidates are only Democratic except maybe three or four! Long story short, I never really liked Hillary because she is a smart attorney and long time career politician who knows how to use both systems for personal along with political gains.  I will vote for Hillary only because she can be effective and will make concessions to adopt or help the goals of the have DNC platform which I believe can make our country better.

Do I trust her, no, but she's the only shot I have for seeing social and equity equality moved forward. I think, just maybe, once she achieves her ultimate  political goal, she will focus on building a legacy historically as crusader for the justice she believed in as a young defence attorney. She won't have to play the big money games of doners influencing a politician's policies. 

 

Edited by White Unicorn
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GlitterRose
4 hours ago, Big Jim said:

You're letting imagination pass for knowledge.  In your very next post you ask Zalmoxis "How do you know?"  Every person's tax situation is unique.  Anybody's return doesn't have to meet with the approval of the masses, only the IRS.  As in most cases of dealing with the law, we get all the justice we can afford.  The outcome of similar cases between someone with a public defender and someone with a top flight lawyer is expected to be different.  So it is with taxes.  If I do my own and you go to H&R Block and Trump has 3 floors of accountants and lawyers I may end up paying the most but that doesn't make it unfair. We're not in a race with each other.  Taxes are not voluntary.  There is no honor in paying more than one's share, as determined by the IRS.  If, in the complexities and overlaps of running many multinational companies, Trump manages to pare his taxes down to nothing, I don't hold that against him.  In fact he's right, he is smart.  Not humble, but smart.  As much as he is audited if there were any discrepancies or illegalities we would have known it by now.

We have had income taxes for a little over a century.  We've changed Presidents 5 times since 1980.  So while sharing one's taxes with the public as a prerequisite for getting elected may be a recent custom it has hardly risen to the status of a long standing tradition.

Well, no one would have to use their imagination if he was  transparent like other candidates are (and like he insists they should be) and just released his friggin' taxes. You can't call for over the top and unprecedented transparency from others while you yourself are not being even minimally transparent. 

Edited by ChaosRose

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GlitterRose

Peter Kiernan says it best:  

Any servicemember who has ever held a security clearance has been subjected to a rigorous background check, including personal finances, affiliations, and drug activity, all for good reason. The nation entrusts its defense to this small group of talented and determined patriots, in return for this responsibility the nation asks for honesty and integrity. I believe that to be the Commander-in-Chief of this group, you should be held to the same standards.

I am calling on Donald J. Trump to release his tax returns. Every President since Nixon has released their tax returns as an important mechanism of transparency, showing Americans what organizations they support and are affiliated with. In seeking to do my civic duty as an informed and independent voter, I am starting a campaign to challenge Trump to release his tax returns.

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spartan max2
13 hours ago, supervike said:

Really?  Was the governor of a state for 8 years, successfully.  Couldn't run for a third term, due to term limits.  Left the state with a large surplus in the budget.  Cut taxes 14 times.  Never raised them once.  Limited the size and scope of the Government.  Oversaw Major changes to the health care of the state, as well as major road upgrades.

Was a successful business man, growing his own one man construction company to a 1000 person corporation.

He runs marathons, triathalons,  he's climbed all of the seven summits.

He's succeeded in his personal, business, and political life.  How is any of that not suitable?  

Meanwhile, the people 'suited' to be President is a guy who used his Daddy's money to own (and bankrupt) countless companies.  The man uses a gaggle of lawyers to bully and shut up critics.  He wakes up at 3 in the morning, to tweet insults to a former Mrs Universe.  Has zero respect for women.

The other one, who has been drummed as the 'candidate' for decades, despite the public not wanting her.  Has been accused of everything from fraud to treason, never really accomplished anything in her time in the senate, had an arguably disastrous run as Sec. of State.  

 

Johnson is NOT a perfect candidate.  He's got flaws, maybe some inexperience on the international level, but he represents absolute real change to our country.  He also doesn't come with the cringe factor that Trump has or the baggage that Clinton carries.   And, unfortunately, he doesn't stand a chance because of the machine that runs our two party system, and American's ability to see anything beyond that.

It's too bad that we can't take a chance on a more positive future.   So ultimately, I know I'm throwing my vote away.  But my real hope is that my vote, and those that vote with me, will help a third option solidify.  Maybe someday we can break this two party stranglehold and have real change.

 

 

Not that I disagree with what youre saying.

But a third party will never solidify. The two main parties would just change their platforms as public opinions change. As they have done for decades. 

So I see third party votes more as protest votes 

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GlitterRose
19 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Not that I disagree with what youre saying.

But a third party will never solidify. The two main parties would just change their platforms as public opinions change. As they have done for decades. 

So I see third party votes more as protest votes 

And I'm sorry folks, but the time for a protest vote is not when you've got the possibility of a Trump presidency.

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F3SS

Or a Clinton presidency. We don't want that. :no:

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DieChecker
9 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Well, no one would have to use their imagination if he was  transparent like other candidates are (and like he insists they should be) and just released his friggin' taxes. You can't call for over the top and unprecedented transparency from others while you yourself are not being even minimally transparent. 

This same quote works for Hillary, with the exact same words, except substitute "she" for "he", and put "medical records", instead of "taxes".

9 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Peter Kiernan says it best:  

Any servicemember who has ever held a security clearance has been subjected to a rigorous background check, including personal finances, affiliations, and drug activity, all for good reason. The nation entrusts its defense to this small group of talented and determined patriots, in return for this responsibility the nation asks for honesty and integrity. I believe that to be the Commander-in-Chief of this group, you should be held to the same standards.

I am calling on Donald J. Trump to release his tax returns. Every President since Nixon has released their tax returns as an important mechanism of transparency, showing Americans what organizations they support and are affiliated with. In seeking to do my civic duty as an informed and independent voter, I am starting a campaign to challenge Trump to release his tax returns.

I agree, the President should be held to the highest standard. Unfortunately Hillary has already shown she doesn't even understand what "Confidential", or "transparency" mean.

Both candidates are a complete SHAME to the US worldwide.

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Likely Guy

I came across this transcript of an interview by Greta Van Susteren (Fox News) with Donald Trump from January 2012:

VAN SUSTEREN: Has Governor Romney been boxed on this tax return thing, and if he called you up tonight and said, Donald what should I do about tax return thing, should I release them or not?

TRUMP: I think first answer would have been good. It should have been delivered a certain way. But April 1st historically is the time that everybody gives them.

VAN SUSTEREN: I hear April 1, I think of April Fool's Day.

TRUMP: OK, make it April 2nd.

VAN SUSTEREN: If he called you in light of the situation he in now from clamoring from opponents, would it political be shrewd he would release them now?

TRUMP: I think he may have to. I think he a step went too far. I think that April 1st or April 2nd was OK. But now I think in light of the fact that he started discussing some of the things, namely the rate or approximately the rate, I think it probably be better off just to release them now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Donald, nice to talk to you, as always. I hope you come back soon.

TRUMP: Thank you very much, Greta.

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2012/01/19/trump-gop-stop-playing-president-obamas-hands/

 

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Frank Merton

Not voting, or throwing away one's vote by voting for a candidate who cannot win, are the same thing.  The only difference is the first is laziness or apathy, the second arrogance and inability to accept the less than perfect.

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Dumbledore the Awesome
8 hours ago, F3SS said:

Or a Clinton presidency. We don't want that. :no:

ChaosRose does, because she seems to believe that the world needs to be rid of Tyrants and Dictators, and that'll certainly be Hillary's #1 priority from the moment she comes to office. So do other otherwise intelligent people, who seem to have a complete blind spot when it comes to the potential consequences of this policy. To put it bluntly, are Trump's tax returns a more important issue when the alternative is utterly insane? 

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Claire.

According to an article by the NYT just published, Trump could have avoided paying taxes for years. The article, however, also stated: "That being said, Mr. Trump has paid hundreds of millions of dollars in property taxes, sales and excise taxes, real estate taxes, city taxes, state taxes, employee taxes and federal taxes, along with very substantial charitable contributions." 

This was based on their assessment of Trump's 1995 return which the Trump campaign says was illegally obtained.

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-taxes-idUSKCN12202V

 

Quote

Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, records obtained by The New York Times show.

The 1995 tax records, never before disclosed, reveal the extraordinary tax benefits that Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, derived from the financial wreckage he left behind in the early 1990s through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan. Tax experts hired by The Times to analyze Mr. Trump’s 1995 records said that tax rules especially advantageous to wealthy filers would have allowed Mr. Trump to use his $916 million loss to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income over an 18-year period.

Read more: The New York Times

 

Edited by Clair
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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

Not voting, or throwing away one's vote by voting for a candidate who cannot win, are the same thing.  The only difference is the first is laziness or apathy, the second arrogance and inability to accept the less than perfect.

Yes, vote the way you're told, or else it's wasted. 

How very Party of you Frank.

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Frank Merton
1 hour ago, Lord Fedorable said:

Yes, vote the way you're told, or else it's wasted. 

How very Party of you Frank.

Instead of insults and a distortion (I didn't say vote the way you are told, really now) and a wave at the issue, why don't you try thinking it through?

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preacherman76
On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 0:39 AM, supervike said:

Really?  Was the governor of a state for 8 years, successfully.  Couldn't run for a third term, due to term limits.  Left the state with a large surplus in the budget.  Cut taxes 14 times.  Never raised them once.  Limited the size and scope of the Government.  Oversaw Major changes to the health care of the state, as well as major road upgrades.

Was a successful business man, growing his own one man construction company to a 1000 person corporation.

He runs marathons, triathalons,  he's climbed all of the seven summits.

He's succeeded in his personal, business, and political life.  How is any of that not suitable?  

Meanwhile, the people 'suited' to be President is a guy who used his Daddy's money to own (and bankrupt) countless companies.  The man uses a gaggle of lawyers to bully and shut up critics.  He wakes up at 3 in the morning, to tweet insults to a former Mrs Universe.  Has zero respect for women.

The other one, who has been drummed as the 'candidate' for decades, despite the public not wanting her.  Has been accused of everything from fraud to treason, never really accomplished anything in her time in the senate, had an arguably disastrous run as Sec. of State.  

 

Johnson is NOT a perfect candidate.  He's got flaws, maybe some inexperience on the international level, but he represents absolute real change to our country.  He also doesn't come with the cringe factor that Trump has or the baggage that Clinton carries.   And, unfortunately, he doesn't stand a chance because of the machine that runs our two party system, and American's ability to see anything beyond that.

It's too bad that we can't take a chance on a more positive future.   So ultimately, I know I'm throwing my vote away.  But my real hope is that my vote, and those that vote with me, will help a third option solidify.  Maybe someday we can break this two party stranglehold and have real change.

 

 

Supporting TPP flushes all this right down the toilet. Why do Johnson supporters avoid and ignore this fact?

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DieChecker
6 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

Not voting, or throwing away one's vote by voting for a candidate who cannot win, are the same thing.  The only difference is the first is laziness or apathy, the second arrogance and inability to accept the less than perfect.

I think voting a third party can be a honorable choice. One shouldn't do so to spite the main two parties, but because one believes in the political positions of that third party. 

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Gromdor
55 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Supporting TPP flushes all this right down the toilet. Why do Johnson supporters avoid and ignore this fact?

It's because Libertarians believe in capitalism and the free market.  They believe that the market should determine prices and costs and if Mexico or China can make it cheaper then it is up to the US manufacturers to figure out how to do it cheaper as well or go under. 

They don't believe in government intervention, regulation, or protectionist tariffs that artificially bends the market and are for treaties that removes such barriers to trade.  The Republicans used to believe this too.

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preacherman76
16 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's because Libertarians believe in capitalism and the free market.  They believe that the market should determine prices and costs and if Mexico or China can make it cheaper then it is up to the US manufacturers to figure out how to do it cheaper as well or go under. 

They don't believe in government intervention, regulation, or protectionist tariffs that artificially bends the market and are for treaties that removes such barriers to trade.  The Republicans used to believe this too.

I know, I am a libertarian.

How do you feel about companies like say Monsanto being able to sue a country for lost profits should said country ban GMO's? The TPP has VERY little if anything to do with free trade. 

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Gromdor
11 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I know, I am a libertarian.

How do you feel about companies like say Monsanto being able to sue a country for lost profits should said country ban GMO's? The TPP has VERY little if anything to do with free trade. 

Free trade means getting rid of bans and regulations.  Even ones we currently like. 

Personally, I would like a more gradual move towards free trade to allow US companies (and foreign ones too) to adjust without the sudden shock.  I also don't hold an absolutist view on regulations or bans that many do.

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third_eye

Its a case of not being able to contain China at the bottom of the barrel anymore ... now everyone is trying to play catch up and stumbling all over the place while China is continuing to outpace them all at every opportunity and angle ...

How to stop China ?

Why would anyone want to ? Except the cold war reliquaries hell bent and insistent on being relevant when its quite obvious they are already redundant years ago China poses nothing as determinate as the current danger of a worldwide Nuclear Holocaust ... fact is China has been inviting every nation great and small to work together to make a truly global community that leaves no one behind ... but then again some status quo has to make some lee way and those are the ones that are fear mongering to keep their clutches on their supremacist ideologies ... 

Still a bit to do and some time to go yet ... but its getting there ... as long as no one gets desperate enough to push that button just to save 'face' and out of spite everything should be fine ~

 

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Gromdor

So I guess it is official, Trump has paid 0% federal income taxes.  His aides are apparently spinning it as him being a "genius" and thus the best to reform the tax system.  They are mad that someone leaked three pages of his 1995 tax report though. http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37533263

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Dumbledore the Awesome

Good for him. What does the Government spend it on? That's right, spreading American Freedom & Democracy around the world, whether they want it or not. If no one paid tax, the American Empire wouldn't be able to spread Freedom, or at any rate would have to borrow the money for it and thereby accelerate their bankruptcy.

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GlitterRose
11 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

ChaosRose does, because she seems to believe that the world needs to be rid of Tyrants and Dictators, and that'll certainly be Hillary's #1 priority from the moment she comes to office. So do other otherwise intelligent people, who seem to have a complete blind spot when it comes to the potential consequences of this policy. To put it bluntly, are Trump's tax returns a more important issue when the alternative is utterly insane? 

It's probably not possible for the world to be rid of all tyrants and dictators. That said, we don't need a president who sidles up to them so he can build huge buildings with his name on them in their countries. It's probably also not a good idea to become isolationist and institute a worldwide protection racket scheme where our allies need to pay up in order for us to honor our treaties with them. 

There's a lot on the line, and yes, transparency about all of his vast and dubious overseas connections is needed. 

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GlitterRose
10 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

So I guess it is official, Trump has paid 0% federal income taxes.  His aides are apparently spinning it as him being a "genius" and thus the best to reform the tax system.  They are mad that someone leaked three pages of his 1995 tax report though. http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37533263

Why on Earth would anyone who uses every single tax loophole to his advantage change the system so he couldn't do that anymore? 

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Gromdor
5 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

Good for him. What does the Government spend it on? That's right, spreading American Freedom & Democracy around the world, whether they want it or not. If no one paid tax, the American Empire wouldn't be able to spread Freedom, or at any rate would have to borrow the money for it and thereby accelerate their bankruptcy.

Body armor for the troops we send out to spread "American Freedom & Democracy" would be nice.

It's going to be real hard for his supporters to claim that they "Support the troops" when their candidate chose not to spend a dime over the last few decades to help them.

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Gromdor
7 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Why on Earth would anyone who uses every single tax loophole to his advantage change the system so he couldn't do that anymore? 

He's not going to change it so he can't do it anymore.  He is going to give more breaks, so it will be easier to do.

His tax plan: http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/15/pf/taxes/trump-tax-plan/?iid=EL

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