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Claire.

25 New 'Dead Sea Scrolls' Revealed

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Claire.

 25 New 'Dead Sea Scrolls' Revealed

More than 25 previously unpublished "Dead Sea Scroll" fragments, dating back 2,000 years and holding text from the Hebrew Bible, have been brought to light, their contents detailed in two new books. The various scroll fragments record parts of the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Samuel, Ruth, Kings, Micah, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Joel, Joshua, Judges, Proverbs, Numbers, Psalms, Ezekiel and Jonah. The Qumran caves ― where the Dead Sea Scrolls were first discovered ― had yet to yield any fragments from the Book of Nehemiah; if this newly revealed fragment is authenticated it would be the first.

Scholars have expressed concerns that some of the fragments are forgeries.

Read more: Live Science

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Claire.

Are These New Dead Sea Scrolls the Real Thing?

The Dead Sea Scrolls are about 2,000 years old and hold text from the Hebrew Bible. Hundreds of fragments of the scrolls were first found between 1947 and 1956 in caves in Qumran in the Judean Desert. More recently, additional scroll fragments have come to light. Since 2002, around 70 Dead Sea Scrolls fragments have appeared on the antiquities market, said Eibert Tigchelaar, a professor at the University of Leuven in Belgium, in an interview with Live Science. Tigchelaar believes that some of the scroll fragments that have recently appeared are actually modern-day forgeries, while others are not from Qumran, but rather other caves in the Judean Desert, possibly ones that haven't been discovered by archaeologists.

Source: Live Science

 

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third_eye

Claims of forgeries is nothing new ... such claims were there from the very beginning when the scrolls were kept hidden from independent academic scrutiny ~

 

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herbygant

Yahweh was never seen.

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Skulduggery

If real, then great! Pretty amazing. It's good to err on the side of caution about authenticity, though. I'd like to find out more about them and their history before swallowing the bait.

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freetoroam
5 hours ago, Clair said:

Are These New Dead Sea Scrolls the Real Thing?

At the moment, we have but to wait for the results:

 

Scientists are conducting tests on the donated fragments to help determine if any are forgeries, 

http://www.livescience.com/56428-25-new-dead-sea-scrolls-revealed.html

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paperdyer
3 hours ago, Skulduggery said:

If real, then great! Pretty amazing. It's good to err on the side of caution about authenticity, though. I'd like to find out more about them and their history before swallowing the bait.

If these are real and not congruent with the current religious dogma, they will probably never be published or claimed to be fakes ti skirt the issue.

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Nnicolette

So what are these two new books called?

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White Unicorn
On 10/10/2016 at 9:13 AM, Clair said:

 25 New 'Dead Sea Scrolls' Revealed

More than 25 previously unpublished "Dead Sea Scroll" fragments, dating back 2,000 years and holding text from the Hebrew Bible, have been brought to light, their contents detailed in two new books. The various scroll fragments record parts of the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Samuel, Ruth, Kings, Micah, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Joel, Joshua, Judges, Proverbs, Numbers, Psalms, Ezekiel and Jonah. The Qumran caves ― where the Dead Sea Scrolls were first discovered ― had yet to yield any fragments from the Book of Nehemiah; if this newly revealed fragment is authenticated it would be the first.

Scholars have expressed concerns that some of the fragments are forgeries.

Read more: Live Science

I just want to add a few things to consider besides some forgeries. When the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered there were many and some fragments not readable. 

In olden times the Rabbis made their own  copies of their own holy books.  During the war scroll period many were buried for future generations even more contemporary commentaries and books of that period. OT books should be copied the exactly the same but even back then the old biblical Hebrew being copied from someone with poor writing skills could change a meaning of a word. Later OT was edited copied and translated by Christians. Finding the oldest versions and comparing them is fascinating for scholars. 

Just like with an  Israeli archeologist making a find sometimes tells a gentile, it's only animal bones, the same may be said of scroll finds. They want to translate and study the real finds first. They are holy to them. The Rabbi scholars go to work to translate to modern Hebrew first and then some will be published in other languages. I heard from a Rabbi scholar that they were studying about 900 older scrolls that were found including other books of older  OT time periods. 

I dabble in translations with photos of the old scrolls being translated, with a translation to English by a Rabbi scholar when possible. It's a very fascinating  hobby. 

It hard for us to be sure what is a fake translation or from a fake scroll. I only trust the scholar archeologists who consider them holy. Unfortunately they consider some too holy to reveal to gentiles.

 

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Dark_Grey
36 minutes ago, White Unicorn said:

I just want to add a few things to consider besides some forgeries. When the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered there were many and some fragments not readable. 

In olden times the Rabbis made their own  copies of their own holy books.  During the war scroll period many were buried for future generations even more contemporary commentaries and books of that period. OT books should be copied the exactly the same but even back then the old biblical Hebrew being copied from someone with poor writing skills could change a meaning of a word. Later OT was edited copied and translated by Christians. Finding the oldest versions and comparing them is fascinating for scholars. 

Just like with an  Israeli archeologist making a find sometimes tells a gentile, it's only animal bones, the same may be said of scroll finds. They want to translate and study the real finds first. They are holy to them. The Rabbi scholars go to work to translate to modern Hebrew first and then some will be published in other languages. I heard from a Rabbi scholar that they were studying about 900 older scrolls that were found including other books of older  OT time periods. 

I dabble in translations with photos of the old scrolls being translated, with a translation to English by a Rabbi scholar when possible. It's a very fascinating  hobby. 

It hard for us to be sure what is a fake translation or from a fake scroll. I only trust the scholar archeologists who consider them holy. Unfortunately they consider some too holy to reveal to gentiles.

 

I want to add a question, besides the topic of forgeries..

What is to be made of the non-canonical books of the Bible? Growing up in a Christian household, we were told to disregard the other books, like the book of Enoch, as the Bible is perfect.

Even if that were so, aren't ALL the OT books supposed to be inspired by God? Clearly the non-canonical writings were meant by their ancient authors to be a part of the scriptures otherwise why bother writing and storing the books with the others?

I find this very fascinating as the non-canonical books read like ancient Egyptian myths, talking about fallen angels, giants, other realms, etc. Were they not included to avoid distorting Biblical narratives like the "holy trinity" or redemption/salvation?

Answer what you can - I don't expect Biblical Scholar answers, just a little more insight than what I have...

 

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Dark_Grey
36 minutes ago, White Unicorn said:

I just want to add a few things to consider besides some forgeries. When the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered there were many and some fragments not readable. 

In olden times the Rabbis made their own  copies of their own holy books.  During the war scroll period many were buried for future generations even more contemporary commentaries and books of that period. OT books should be copied the exactly the same but even back then the old biblical Hebrew being copied from someone with poor writing skills could change a meaning of a word. Later OT was edited copied and translated by Christians. Finding the oldest versions and comparing them is fascinating for scholars. 

Just like with an  Israeli archeologist making a find sometimes tells a gentile, it's only animal bones, the same may be said of scroll finds. They want to translate and study the real finds first. They are holy to them. The Rabbi scholars go to work to translate to modern Hebrew first and then some will be published in other languages. I heard from a Rabbi scholar that they were studying about 900 older scrolls that were found including other books of older  OT time periods. 

I dabble in translations with photos of the old scrolls being translated, with a translation to English by a Rabbi scholar when possible. It's a very fascinating  hobby. 

It hard for us to be sure what is a fake translation or from a fake scroll. I only trust the scholar archeologists who consider them holy. Unfortunately they consider some too holy to reveal to gentiles.

 

I want to add a question, besides the topic of forgeries..

What is to be made of the non-canonical books of the Bible? Growing up in a Christian household, we were told to disregard the other books, like the book of Enoch, as the Bible is perfect.

Even if that were so, aren't ALL the OT books supposed to be inspired by God? Clearly the non-canonical writings were meant by their ancient authors to be a part of the scriptures otherwise why bother writing and storing the books with the others?

I find this very fascinating as the non-canonical books read like ancient Egyptian myths, talking about fallen angels, giants, other realms, etc. Were they not included to avoid distorting Biblical narratives like the "holy trinity" or redemption/salvation?

Answer what you can - I don't expect Biblical Scholar answers, just a little more insight than what I have...

 

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White Unicorn
54 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

I want to add a question, besides the topic of forgeries..

What is to be made of the non-canonical books of the Bible? Growing up in a Christian household, we were told to disregard the other books, like the book of Enoch, as the Bible is perfect.

Even if that were so, aren't ALL the OT books supposed to be inspired by God? Clearly the non-canonical writings were meant by their ancient authors to be a part of the scriptures otherwise why bother writing and storing the books with the others?

I find this very fascinating as the non-canonical books read like ancient Egyptian myths, talking about fallen angels, giants, other realms, etc. Were they not included to avoid distorting Biblical narratives like the "holy trinity" or redemption/salvation?

Answer what you can - I don't expect Biblical Scholar answers, just a little more insight than what I have...

 

In Judaism only their  first 5 books were considered the holiest. They also contain numerological interpretations and codes for different deeper meanings. So you are to study the outer literal stories and the deeper meanings of spirit or the Sod. Later books didn't contain the same kind of mathematical or hidden letter codes. The codes discovered could be deciphered could be read as another story more or less in the Hebrew language. Rabbi commentaries during the time period sometimes included the deciphered messages of deeper meanings. It is very complex. 

Judaism included books of the prophets and commentaries of deeper meanings by Rabbis.God inspired them to write other books and ones of history that never stops but they are not as holy as the first ones. You can notice that there are many covenants made with God that were ultimately broken by most of the generations. 

Christianity in its evolution decided what books to cannonize and discard. Roman Catholicism believed more in a Trinity which was a new creation from an older religion. To me it was their way of describing a new covenant that included Gentiles. Some of the books were discarded and others included that were not considered holy but scholarly or historical by Judaism. Judaism reveals God revealing parts  of Himself  to man in aspects or emanations not just a Trinity. Eliminations are considered One just as Trinity is considered One.   Another difference is there are several different messiahs to Judaism. It is the soul of God going into a man as One to guide us at that time period to become one with God and change the world to His ways.

I began my hobby of reading older translations of scrolls because I noticed the Christian bible was a translated editorial excluding many prior teachings. I wanted to learn more about the original Christian Jews that followed the teachings of the Messiah and how they differed from modern Christianity.

I must say it was when I realized many words used for God in the Bible were different and wondered why it was so. 

I also realized from the teachings good Gentiles were not expected the same demands as a Jew is to follow, because they were revealed more about God throughout their history. 

 

 

Edited by White Unicorn
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Dark_Grey
7 minutes ago, White Unicorn said:

In Judaism only their  first 5 books were considered the holiest. They also contain numerological interpretations and codes for different deeper meanings. So you are to study the outer literal stories and the deeper meanings of spirit or the Sod. Later books didn't contain the same kind of mathematical or hidden letter codes. The codes discovered could be deciphered could be read as another story more or less in the Hebrew language. Rabbi commentaries during the time period sometimes included the deciphered messages of deeper meanings. It is very complex.

Just curious, is the number 72 featured prominently in those stories? It's commonly found in other ancient myths and seems to be related to the procession of the equinox

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paperdyer
1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Just curious, is the number 72 featured prominently in those stories? It's commonly found in other ancient myths and seems to be related to the procession of the equinox

I love religions that grade their level of Holiness.  Holy should be Holy, period.  That's the reason Satan went to Hell to rule.  He wasn't high enough on the Holy Pecking Order.

 

For those of you that watch Lucifer on FOX, there might be some real fun moments with Tricia Helfer playing Lucifer's Mother and God's wife.

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White Unicorn
23 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Just curious, is the number 72 featured prominently in those stories? It's commonly found in other ancient myths and seems to be related to the procession of the equinox

I'm not an expert with the Hebrew  numbers and ciphers, it makes my brain when I saw how in  a Rabbi's book it was worked out! 

I think you are thinking along the books or Enoch Calculations of seasons and moons that  were important to crop and determining the Sabbaths. 

To me 70 is a number of the world of creation, plus two is Beth the blessing letter which the creation was begun for man. So 72 could be all the forces and aspects of God in the world started by 2 the opposing forces of male and female, good and evil,  think of positive and negative in atoms, or even how the binary codes of computers create just through the process of 2, 1 null and and positive.God of creation is also given a 72 name.

I was referring to formulas of converting words to numbers and the 22 letters. Ancient Hebrew is a fascinating written  language,  it doesn't contain vowels, so vowels are determined by position or context. A root word written in reverse is the opposite of the same root word.  Sometimes the vowels are determined by the numeric value of word that would fit the context. Hebrew has female and male words as well as plurals. It's like if you convert words to numbers and their meaning tells the meaning of a word Some of the codex for deeper meanings works much like breaking secret codes during a war. Sometimes times the message is read in reverse or forward, such as writing every seventh letter of the  Holy Books. Besides missing vowels that could change the whole meaning of a word or a name, there is no punctuation the Holy Scriptures are written like one long sentence. Some say that the whole complete name of God is all the letters of the first 5 books of the OT!

I just try to translate old Hebrew and have not gotten into all the numbers but  I feel the gist of it and can read words. That's a miracle in itself to me. I'm in no way an expert, it's just a curiosity hobby of mine to seek out  the true original meanings of scrolls in context of the period.

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Dark_Grey
14 minutes ago, White Unicorn said:

I just try to translate old Hebrew and have not gotten into all the numbers but  I feel the gist of it and can read words. That's a miracle in itself to me. I'm in no way an expert, it's just a curiosity hobby of mine to seek out  the true original meanings of scrolls in context of the period.

Dude that is really cool that you can read ancient Hebrew. So if I took the word "cold", "dloc" would mean "hot"?

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White Unicorn
7 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Dude that is really cool that you can read ancient Hebrew. So if I took the word "cold", "dloc" would mean "hot"?

In English it looks silly because dloc isn't a word, but in the oldest Hebrew  some words work just that way because both are actually words of an opposite meaning. I thought it was really cool too! 

Edited by White Unicorn
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qxcontinuum
On 10/11/2016 at 0:20 AM, Nnicolette said:

So what are these two new books called?

+ 1 ... 

Very skeptic about their true intentions also.    

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qxcontinuum

in fact now if i am thinking straight , they are fake. The Bible says that God watches for His words to be delivered and nothing to be removed or added. So normally if the scripts were genuine , the addition would have existed already in God's book. The fact isn't indicates forgery, unless whatever they discover has reflections already in the Bible. 

Edited by qxcontinuum

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aquatus1
11 minutes ago, qxcontinuum said:

The Bible says that God watches for His words to be delivered and nothing to be removed or added.

It does?

I mean, it doesn't really matter, since it would still be a circular argument, but I didn't know there was an actual disclaimer like that in the bible.

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White Unicorn
17 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

It does?

I mean, it doesn't really matter, since it would still be a circular argument, but I didn't know there was an actual disclaimer like that in the bible.

I think it was the end of revelations saying that as well as the Torah of the old testament was taken in oral and written commentaries with a standing belief never to copy and change even one letter of it. 

Texts of the modern Bible kind of been altered by translations and the inclusion or exclusion of Christian texts. Some of the excluded texts give more understanding of the symbolisms contained in the books that seem the most far fetched to understand.

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third_eye

'infallibility' ...

~

Mea Culpa, Me Paenitet,

Spoiler

“My fault, I'm sorry.”
 

 

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qxcontinuum
On 11/16/2016 at 3:31 PM, aquatus1 said:

It does?

I mean, it doesn't really matter, since it would still be a circular argument, but I didn't know there was an actual disclaimer like that in the bible.

 

Reveletion 22:21

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Edited by qxcontinuum
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