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Paranormal Panther

If Clinton Does Win

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third_eye
21 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You are Merely sticking your head in the sand. AGAIN. Id provide evidence for what I said, but whats the point really? You not only will not consider it, you are incapable of considering it. All the while ready to jump on anything negative regarding Trump as Gospel truth the second it comes out.

Trump can say what he wants to say ... what I am saying is its a bad move and the fact that you don't see it is a problem ... in fact I don;t know what is scarier ... all those that is now saying Trump is some instrument of God to save America or Trump showing signs that he is believing in all that kind of talk ...

Gospel of Truth ... ye gads man ... let's not have any crucifixion rallies please ...

~

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preacherman76
24 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Trump can say what he wants to say ... what I am saying is its a bad move and the fact that you don't see it is a problem ... in fact I don;t know what is scarier ... all those that is now saying Trump is some instrument of God to save America or Trump showing signs that he is believing in all that kind of talk ...

Gospel of Truth ... ye gads man ... let's not have any crucifixion rallies please ...

~

It's clearly been proven beyond any doubt what so ever that this, or any other election most certainly can be rigged. The only common sense thing to do is call it out and expose it. Heck it's already being exposed and is happening in the early voting already. 

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third_eye
1 minute ago, preacherman76 said:

It's clearly been proven beyond any doubt what so ever that this, or any other election most certainly can be rigged. The only common sense thing to do is call it out and expose it. Heck it's already being exposed and is happening in the early voting already. 

That's the problem ... the more disreputable the claims the weaker the accusations becomes , and the weaker the results one way or another ...

The more shadows that is thrown into the issue the less the evidence will hold up ... this is a cry wolf scenario ... if there is rigging then best leave it to those that is burdened with providing the evidence ... all this is not helping Trump or Hillary and I don't care either way ...

all this is not helping the Democratic Principles and you can bet your last nickle or dime that somewhere down the line somewhere somehow some idiot is gonna copycat all this madness somewhere in some election elsewhere ... it is turning everything Democratic on its head ...

~

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preacherman76
12 minutes ago, third_eye said:

That's the problem ... the more disreputable the claims the weaker the accusations becomes , and the weaker the results one way or another ...

The more shadows that is thrown into the issue the less the evidence will hold up ... this is a cry wolf scenario ... if there is rigging then best leave it to those that is burdened with providing the evidence ... all this is not helping Trump or Hillary and I don't care either way ...

all this is not helping the Democratic Principles and you can bet your last nickle or dime that somewhere down the line somewhere somehow some idiot is gonna copycat all this madness somewhere in some election elsewhere ... it is turning everything Democratic on its head ...

~

Please explain how this guy is "disreputable"

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Lilly

If Mrs Clinton does win I will simply be paying higher taxes and higher health insurance premiums. The impact for the future of the United States will fall onto my children...and that is what really worries me.

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third_eye
2 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Please explain how this guy is "disreputable"

Florida ... what happened ?

Are you so sure and certain that this is how its going to end again ?

If so what is going to prevent it from happening again ... ? What's the point of elections then ?

~

 

Quote

 

Will the US elections be hacked? It's doubtful, but machines could be 'rigged'

The fact that most election machines are not connected to the internet makes hacking unlikely, but the software itself could be vulnerable

***

Election hacking is highly unlikely, he says. Attackers reaching into the ballot box from thousands of miles away won’t happen, simply because the vast majority of election machines are not connected to the internet.

Some 31 states offer voting via internet, email, or fax, but nearly all only allow it as an option for military families and Americans living overseas – a very small percentage of the electorate. Only Alaska allows any voter to cast a ballot across the net, according to Verified Voting.

But election rigging is a potential threat, says Rubin. That’s where adversaries attack the electronic voting machines themselves, altering the software inside the machines to favor one candidate. “There are a thousand points of vulnerability,” says Rubin. “Anyone with access to the machines at any stage could attack them."

***

Overall, Rubin says he is not more concerned about this election being rigged than those in the past, in large part because more states have adopted paper ballots than four or eight years ago. The worst case scenario would be a replay of the Florida election debacle in 2000 – only this time it would be worse because the current supreme court is deadlocked with only eight judges rather than nine, which means a verdict could be inconclusive.

 

~
That's the real issue isn't it ?

The perfect conditions for a perfect storm ... don't forget ... if the people as in of the people does not voluntarily participate according to the statutes ...

everything means nothing ... and I mean everything ...

~

Nothing Hillary ... or Trump can do anything about it ... nasty business ... not something I hope to see one way or the other ...

~

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preacherman76
31 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Florida ... what happened ?

Are you so sure and certain that this is how its going to end again

No. What Im certain about is anyone who tells you its impossible, or next to impossible to rig elections is playing on peoples ignorance.

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third_eye
Just now, preacherman76 said:

No. What Im certain about is anyone who tells you its impossible, or next to impossible to rig elections is playing on peoples ignorance.

THere has to be a line somewhere to go by the set of rules, is what I'm saying ... all this talk of possibilities or not impossible now is not helpful ... if not absolutely detrimental to the process ... the key here is 'now' ... when the results are out ... then go at it if there is the need or there is sufficient evidence by all means ...

Disputing anything now and questioning the credibility of the whole process now is not only premature but it is detrimental to the whole idea of elections ...

As it stands now it is already precarious no matter who wins ... last thing needed now is everybody wont and nobody will accept any result other than a result they wants ... talk about burning both houses down and the barns along with it ... its no secret that things are already bad enough as it is ...

~

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and then
8 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

and then...can I ask you something? what do mean, like about  the media being humbled at some point? There's not many in MSM that are really reliable .

Frankly, Ellapennela, I don't think any of the main outlets, including Fox, are reliable any longer.  I used the word "humbled" euphemistically. I've gotten a little heat, lately, because I've let my anger get the best of me here at UM.  I think that the big media outlets have become so openly biased for the Left that they may not escape the growing anger of the people due to the policies of that Left.  There are millions of angry, frustrated and even frightened Americans after the last 8 years of "hope and change".  If that continues and the misery worsens, the media may find itself under attack as the most direct cause of that misery.  Think of it a moment.  How far could a candidate like HRC have gotten without the sycophantic cover of the media?  For that matter, the same could be said about Obama and even Trump.  The media owners select their candidate and give that candidate the coverage that the rest have to pay millions for... how are they NOT responsible for the condition of our politics today?  They are the cheerleaders of polarization and some day that will lead to violence on a large scale.  That's my opinion.  I don't call for that violence.

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and then
On 10/28/2016 at 0:18 AM, Astra. said:

I think ones truth - is only obvious to the one who believes it to be true. In other words it's 'they're' truth. But it may not be everyone else's truth. I think it would be a dreadful thing - if good people turned on other good people where possible bloodshed could take place due to who should win an election.

If Clinton should win - and violence should break out on a massive scale (hopefully not)...then what would you want or expect to happen?

Do you think they would make Clinton step down - and give Trump office instead - simply because many people were not happy? 

I realise I am not an American voter - but I'm just trying to understand the logic of this - especially where possible violence is concerned if she gets into office.

 

If truth is subjective then it isn't really truth.  I don't imagine that there would be widespread violence if HRC wins.  At least, not violence directly caused by the vote.  The potential for violence is real, though.  She has basically said she is doubling down on Obama's policies.  That will mean continuing to spend about a trillion $ more than the US takes in annually in taxes.  We are approximately 20 trillion in debt today.  There are no credible voices even talking about how to repay such a debt.  As the debt grows, economic opportunity will be "progressively" strangled.  This is a global issue and the US is leading the way into economic oblivion.  The tripwire for real violence will be her actions on the second amendment.  If she attempts to impose by fiat a significant change to the Second Amendment, there will be violence.  

If Trump were to win, I believe there is a higher likelihood of violence among the inner city Democrat crowd that have been indoctrinated into thinking he is practically Satan incarnate.  I don't believe the violence would be systematic or prolonged.  That would only become a reality if most benefits were cut deeply.  This is not a personal attack, Astra, but for those who are watching this election from afar and treating it as amusement, I would say they should take a moment and consider just how different this election has been.  It should chill the rational thinkers around the world that Americans seem to be on the edge of open violence over an election.  It's a symptom of the economic uncertainties that have come from irrational government spending.  

One last thing about violence, post- election.  Trump has been known to say some irrational things and has been heard to say disgusting things about women - among a group of guys.  To my knowledge, he has never been reported to have vitriolic meltdowns of screaming, cursing and physically shaking due to uncontrolled rage.  This has been reported of HRC for years.  If she wins, as  I still believe she will do, the world is not going to be a safer place for the next 4 years.

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and then
On 10/28/2016 at 0:23 AM, Likely Guy said:

Sure, it's illegal, I get that.

"In just thinking to myself right now, we should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump, right?" he said. "Why are we even having it for? What are we having it for? Her policies are so bad. Boy, do we have a big difference."  - Trump, sometime in the last 24 hours.

His words are 'totalitarian', to be kind.

Edit: If Clinton said those same words to this effect, "we should just cancel the election and just give it to Clinton, right?" she said. "Why are we even having it for? What are we having it for? His policies are so bad."

What would the effect be?

 

Ah, yes, the widely reported dictator Trump comment.  Did you happen to actually listen to his words?  The man was trying to be funny and those around him understood this.  The press, however, shape their own context.  Then it is slavishly slurped up by those who want to vilify the "not the Liberal", candidate.  People around the world need to get their heads out of their collective asses and think about where all this is headed.  There are many who loathe America and that is there prerogative.  Their fates are intertwined with us, though, whether they like or admit it.

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and then
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

talk about burning both houses down and the barns along with it ... its no secret that things are already bad enough as it is ...

That is a good description of what might be coming.  It is a direct result of the lawlessness, real and perceived, that has begun to be openly seen in the past couple of presidencies.  If the people of a nation of laws start to see the leaders ignore the law, what other outcome can be expected?

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Lilly
6 minutes ago, and then said:

  If the people of a nation of laws start to see the leaders ignore the law, what other outcome can be expected?

This is exactly what worries me the most.

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ninjadude
7 hours ago, Lilly said:

If Mrs Clinton does win I will simply be paying higher taxes and higher health insurance premiums. The impact for the future of the United States will fall onto my children...and that is what really worries me.

Let me ask you, do you make more than 250,000/year? If not, what proof are you using that your taxes will go up? They have certainly gone down under Obama.

Insurance premiums going up has been happening for many decades. Shirley not something you can "blame" on Clinton. Or Obamacare since that was not it's purpose.

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Lilly
23 minutes ago, ninjadude said:

Let me ask you, do you make more than 250,000/year? If not, what proof are you using that your taxes will go up? They have certainly gone down under Obama.

Insurance premiums going up has been happening for many decades. Shirley not something you can "blame" on Clinton. Or Obamacare since that was not it's purpose.

My net worth is my personal/private business. And Obama care will absolutely go up for middle class Americans (they have admitted this is the case).

I can 'surely' hold accountable the Democratic party accountable for the Affordable Care Act.

Oh, and BTW: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obama-economy-idUSKBN0KR0HD20150118

The middle class isn't doing so good and everyone (well, just about everyone) realizes it.

 

Edited by Lilly
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ninjadude
30 minutes ago, Lilly said:

My net worth is my personal/private business. And Obama care will absolutely go up for middle class Americans (they have admitted this is the case).

I can 'surely' hold accountable the Democratic party accountable for the Affordable Care Act.

Oh, and BTW: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obama-economy-idUSKBN0KR0HD20150118

The middle class isn't doing so good and everyone (well, just about everyone) realizes it.

 

Certainly your income is your business. The reason I ask is that she has vowed that taxes will only increase on those making 250,000 or more. So you can expect no increase in taxes.

Are you getting Health insurance under Obamacare? 80% (or more) of Americans do not. They get it thru their employer. So the ACA is not in use by most "middle class Americans". Your premiums are going up as they always have been going up. Not because of Obamacare. This is simply the latest place to blame. If you are using a plan from an ACA exchange, your premium IS going up. But your subsidy IS also going up.

The middle class IS doing ok. It's not doing so well in GOP controlled states. For obvious reasons.

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third_eye
6 hours ago, and then said:

That is a good description of what might be coming.  It is a direct result of the lawlessness, real and perceived, that has begun to be openly seen in the past couple of presidencies.  If the people of a nation of laws start to see the leaders ignore the law, what other outcome can be expected?

NOt so much as dire as that yet ... as bad as it seems to be ol' boy ... question them , know them ... then remember ... the sad part of this is after all this is over and things settle down again many will just forget until the next time things are kicked up and the slinging starts all over again ...

Like I said at the very early days .. the one good thing I see coming from this time around is many is beginning to know and really go and find out and learn

Baby steps ... its a bit too much too soon ... maybe this time not only the votes are counted but the votes really counts when they are tabulated ...

~

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rashore
22 minutes ago, ninjadude said:

Certainly your income is your business. The reason I ask is that she has vowed that taxes will only increase on those making 250,000 or more. So you can expect no increase in taxes.

Are you getting Health insurance under Obamacare? 80% (or more) of Americans do not. They get it thru their employer. So the ACA is not in use by most "middle class Americans". Your premiums are going up as they always have been going up. Not because of Obamacare. This is simply the latest place to blame. If you are using a plan from an ACA exchange, your premium IS going up. But your subsidy IS also going up.

The middle class IS doing ok. It's not doing so well in GOP controlled states. For obvious reasons.

Well ninja... Medicare and medicaid covers 32% of the population. That plus the 20% Obamacare. And about 13% are still uninsured according to estimates... would mean 65% of the public on government insurance be it medicare, medicaid, or Obamacare or are uninsured. That leaves 35% of people that either get their private insurance through an employer, or utilize other state insurance programs for their healthcare. I say other state programs because I know things like Wisconsin's Badgercare for women and children isn't included in medicare, medicaid, Obamacare, private insurance, or as uninsured.

And you say premiums have always gone up, and you are dead on with that. However, there have been several reports of price gouging too- as in premiums going up 100%+. I've had friends share their "letters of notice" from different insurance companies. $300-350 a month premium jumping to $560-780 a month. Or $700-800 a month jumping to $1800-2300 a month. A couple "compromises" of dropping eye, dental, prescription, and upper tier emergency/long term hospital insurance being utterly dropped to still have basic health checkups and low level emergency/zero hospital insurance while still paying a couple hundred more a month. And of course the "hidden" pay responsibility, like when an insurance policy used to have a $20 co-pay that is now $50, or when patient payment went from $500-1000 a year to $2000-$4000 a year. I realize there are probably some folks out there that might be getting more reasonable premium increases, but I haven't heard of any yet.

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Paranormal Panther
17 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

You know what freaks me out about him most of all, is that I don't think he has a conscience. He said he has no remorse  for what he did during the holocaust. Maybe because of all that he experienced, he became a product of his environment. I don't know?  I think his entire family were killed in the holocaust,right?

He lost family and relatives in the Holocaust. His detractors claim that he was complicit in the genocide by informing on individuals. His defenders claim that he was innocent in that he just tried to save his own young life by cooperating with the mass murderers. I can't condemn the boy, but I cannot trust the man.

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Paranormal Panther
17 hours ago, Starseed11 said:

I'm from Australia so maybe I shouldn't comment on USA politics but this election is a big thing here, it's cut between the more aware people who believe Clinton is a criminal globalist and a neocon who wants war and more immigrants and is part of the NWO , I'm definately in that camp, and others who hate Trump because he's ..I don't know.. not liberal or something. Basically I cannot understand why anyone aware would vote for Clinton. But most people are stupid and conditioned by mainstream media I suppose explains it. Strange though how Russia has just had a nuclear war drill involving 40 million of its citizens, maybe they think how I do. I know Putin is not the bad guy, Washington is, and NATO. And Clinton is a part of that, so I'll be basically pretty sad if she does win, probably stockpile food and water just in case and whatever weapons I can salvage, you know..just in case. But like someone said it'll be more of the same bull****. I pity you guys if Trump doesn't win. 

It's good to see awake and aware Aussies. You know more than many Americans do, especially brainwashed members of the Clinton cult. For instance, they portray Trump as some kind of crazy Dr. Strangelove, even though he wants a better, peaceful relationship with Russia. The record shows that Clinton is much more likely to usher in Armageddon.

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Paranormal Panther
14 hours ago, Why not said:

One of my biggest gripes for years has been the MSM. The last year and a half (especially the last six or eight monts) have really shown their true colors. Somehow, someway I hope they wake up (doubt it) or something can be done ( people demand truth and accuracy) or they will just keep leading most of the American people around by the nose. I can't stand even watching it anymore. 

The MSM is a lost cause. They'll act like Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun, in their bunker at the end of World War II, if Trump wins. They know that we know that they're propagandists, so they merely preach to what's left of their shrinking choir. This dinosaur caused its own impending extinction.

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Astra.
8 hours ago, and then said:

This is not a personal attack, Astra, but for those who are watching this election from afar and treating it as amusement, I would say they should take a moment and consider just how different this election has been.

Thank you 'and then'. And I haven't taken your post as a personal attack at all. One thing is for sure tho - (and as an outsider and a non-voter) I have not always found this current election to be amusing. I will admit tho - there have certainly been some moments - especially with all the twists and turns.

Over all - I have been taking things very seriously. I feel that whoever wins this election is a 'big deal' - because it wont only impact on your country - it will also impact on the rest of the world in one way or another.

 

8 hours ago, and then said:

One last thing about violence, post- election.  Trump has been known to say some irrational things and has been heard to say disgusting things about women - among a group of guys.

Yes, apparently he has.

8 hours ago, and then said:

To my knowledge, he has never been reported to have vitriolic meltdowns of screaming, cursing and physically shaking due to uncontrolled rage.

Maybe so - but he has also been known to be insulting and thin skinned.

8 hours ago, and then said:

 If she wins, as  I still believe she will do, the world is not going to be a safer place for the next 4 years.

Well the speculation remains 'IF' she wins. I tend to feel that her boat may be sinking... especially due to the latest information on the investigation into further and possible dubious emails where she is no doubt connected to.

The woman herself has spun this sticky entangled web. If she should lose to Donald Trump - she has only herself to blame.

As far as the world not being a safer place for the next 4 years (as you have mentioned)....well that concerns me as well if Donald Trump takes office. Either way - your country and the rest of the free world at large will just have to wait and see if his words match all of the promises he has made.

Interesting times ahead - to say the least.

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DingoLingo

you guys should have a third option to vote for.. both candidates will really royally screw America one way or another and cause a lot of waves around the world.

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Astra.
2 hours ago, DingoLingo said:

you guys should have a third option to vote for.. both candidates will really royally screw America one way or another and cause a lot of waves around the world.

Hi Dingo,

I thought the people did have another option. Jill Stein jumps to mind and somebody else? ...I'm not sure if that would make much of a difference in concerns with the two major parties. Unlike us - they also have the option of not having to vote. 

Someone might come along and explain things a little more where their other options are concerned. 

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