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N.Z. Tourist Plunges To Her Death


ouija ouija

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The jury has come back saying they are unable to reach a verdict. The judge has sent them back to deliberate further, saying that experience has shown that with further time, juries can come to a decision. I can understand why there would be indecision.

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13 hours ago, Habitat said:

Latest news is the jury is seeking clarification from the judge on a number of issues, including how the girl's state of intoxication should bear on their decision making.

I'm not sure I understand their angle but to me, the fundamental reason she'd have gone over the balcony would have been to escape.

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I think its the issue of how much of a responsibility should Warriena be expected to be Warriena's own to shoulder and bear ... maybe the video shows somewhat of a consensual adult willingly going along and participating with this misadventure before things turned wrong ...

~

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3 hours ago, third_eye said:

I think its the issue of how much of a responsibility should Warriena be expected to be Warriena's own to shoulder and bear ...

Well to me, for her part, I think she must have felt more safe going over the balcony than trying to get back into the apt..

I think for his part, at the very least (and because of the severity of the consequences, I think he's criminally responsible) he forced an obviously terrified, hysterical and yes indeed, intoxicated young woman out onto a 14 story balcony.

3 hours ago, third_eye said:

 maybe the video shows somewhat of a consensual adult willingly going along and participating with this misadventure before things turned wrong ...

~

I think things went wrong before the audio; I don't think he wanted her to leave and that he wasn't allowing her to leave. Why? I don't know, but I know there's a reason he'd force her out onto his balcony rather than out the door.

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2 minutes ago, regi said:

Well to me, for her part, I think she must have felt more safe going over the balcony than trying to get back into the apt..

 

I agree ... actually I think its a good sign that the Jury went the distance to clarify that ... to avoid a mistrial due to technicalities perhaps ...

 

Quote

I think for his part, at the very least (and because of the severity of the consequences, I think he's criminally responsible) he forced an obviously terrified, hysterical and yes indeed, intoxicated young woman out onto a 14 story balcony.

I think things went wrong before the audio; I don't think he wanted her to leave and that he wasn't allowing her to leave. Why? I don't know, but I know there's a reason he'd force her out onto his balcony rather than out the door.

I think at that point he knows that he was already deep in trouble and was trying for ploys to maybe tide it over hoping things would turn out better for him ...

~

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3850784/Gable-Tostee-jury-fail-reach-verdict-Warriena-Wright-murder-trial-day.html

I'm afraid this doesn't tell us much more other than the fact that the jury still can't come to a decision.  Apparently they also asked the judge about the 'metal bar' that Tostee was carrying when he left the apartment building(via the basement), after Ms.Wright fell from the balcony. When I first saw that footage I wondered the same thing .... still don't know what it was.

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Tostee found not guilty of murder or manslaughter. I don't know how well prosecuted this case has been, but it seems wrong that he walks, scot free. He has done something to put extreme fear into that woman, whether it was some weapon he was wielding, or something done or said not revealed by the evidence, but it is clear he deprived her of the choice to leave his apartment, which has led to her death, and then shown callous disregard after her fall. 

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Tostee is now revealed to have a police history involving, amongst other offences, assault, forgery, and drink driving. He has also been revealed to have boasted about his numerous conquests on social media. In another court appearance, evidence was tendered that he was "on the Autism spectrum", with Asperger's Syndrome, and suffers a compulsive obsessive disorder. I am not confident this case was properly prosecuted, he is clearly chargeable for deprivation of liberty. 

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Is it possible for her family to appeal?

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25 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

Is it possible for her family to appeal?

No, only the Crown (govt) can appeal a criminal case that has resulted in an acquittal.  And there has to be solid grounds for an appeal to proceed to a retrial. I am wondering why he was not charged with deprivation of liberty, which they appear to have him cold for, maybe they did not want to give the jury an easy out, and have them convict him of a lesser charge, but opted to shoot for a conviction of manslaughter at the least.

Edited by Habitat
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The Prosecutors over stretched the definition of 

 

 

  1. in·tim·i·da·tion
    inˌtiməˈdāSH(ə)n/
    noun
    noun: intimidation; plural noun: intimidations
    1. the action of intimidating someone, or the state of being intimidated.
      "the intimidation of witnesses and jurors"
       

     

... and couldn't convince the Jury I guess but the Jury did fall short on this one I agree ...

 

Quote

threat - Legal Definition. n. A declaring of one's intention to cause harm or loss to another's person or property or to limit one's freedom to act in a lawful voluntary manner (a threat to kidnap).

~

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3844094/Tinder-messages-Gable-Tostee-sent-women-trial-tourist-Warriena-Wright.html

God! he is SO gross. I fear that in the next couple of years he'll be in the news again but this time the woman will be dead. He's been banned from nightclubs for creeping out women! 

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8 hours ago, Habitat said:

Tostee found not guilty of murder or manslaughter. I don't know how well prosecuted this case has been, but it seems wrong that he walks, scot free. He has done something to put extreme fear into that woman, whether it was some weapon he was wielding, or something done or said not revealed by the evidence, but it is clear he deprived her of the choice to leave his apartment, which has led to her death, and then shown callous disregard after her fall. 

First, thanks for the update on the verdict...

Well, even though I was hoping for and expecting a conviction on the manslaughter charge, I'm actually not too surprised by the verdict.

I'd like to hear from the jury as to why they wouldn't/didn't hold the defendant accountable because at this point, all I can imagine is that they must have interpreted that audio much differently than I did.

 

Edited by regi
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31 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3844094/Tinder-messages-Gable-Tostee-sent-women-trial-tourist-Warriena-Wright.html

God! he is SO gross. I fear that in the next couple of years he'll be in the news again but this time the woman will be dead. He's been banned from nightclubs for creeping out women! 

OMG! You know, I'd wondered about that guy's history, and whether he had any sort of a criminal record- whatever, and I'd felt sure he would!

(And honest to God, I think I might throw up if I see another photo of that man!)

Edited by regi
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4 hours ago, ouija ouija said:

Is it possible for her family to appeal?

I think the family could file a wrongful death suit in a civil court, but if the law in Australia is the same as it is in the U.S., then the criminal prosecution of the case is over.

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7 hours ago, regi said:

I think the family could file a wrongful death suit in a civil court, but if the law in Australia is the same as it is in the U.S., then the criminal prosecution of the case is over.

No provision exists for this kind of action here, so far as I know.

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8 hours ago, regi said:

First, thanks for the update on the verdict...

Well, even though I was hoping for and expecting a conviction on the manslaughter charge, I'm actually not too surprised by the verdict.

I'd like to hear from the jury as to why they wouldn't/didn't hold the defendant accountable because at this point, all I can imagine is that they must have interpreted that audio much differently than I did.

 

Women outside the court were heard to congratulate Tostee on his acquittal, saying "we're on your side". I imagine there might have been  like minded jurors on this case, operating from a position of contempt or no sympathy for a woman they'd consider to have exposed herself to risk by promiscuity. Of course, no such consideration should have entered into their decision.

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I have no words ... honestly ... none at all ...

~

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He's done.  His own words condemn him.  Just more evidence that real evil actually exists and stupidity (or loneliness) won't protect you from it.  Sad story.

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1 hour ago, and then said:

He's done.  His own words condemn him.  Just more evidence that real evil actually exists and stupidity (or loneliness) won't protect you from it.  Sad story.

Just shows what I know, I guess.  I have to agree with third eye on this one.... there are no words...

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The local paper had page after page about this case today, and enough info about Tostee to write a book. There was much focus on his promiscuous behavior, and although the whole idea of people engaging in sex with total strangers is odious, in the end it is not pivotal in this case, what is foremost in my mind is his virtual imprisonment of this woman, and it has to be punished, imo. Without that act of illegality, she would in all probability be alive.

 

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15 minutes ago, Habitat said:

The local paper had page after page about this case today, and enough info about Tostee to write a book. There was much focus on his promiscuous behavior, and although the whole idea of people engaging in sex with total strangers is odious, in the end it is not pivotal in this case, what is foremost in my mind is his virtual imprisonment of this woman, and it has to be punished, imo. Without that act of illegality, she would in all probability be alive.

 

I agree. She asked to be allowed to leave .... that can be heard on the audio tape. If she was asking, she obviously couldn't just walk out the front door for some reason. At this point he should have opened the door and let her go. The fact that he chose to put her out on the balcony instead, speaks volumes as far as I'm concerned. 

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I am curious to know why he wasn't charged with deprivation of liberty, it might be as I mentioned earlier it would have been too tempting for the jury to just pin that on him, and an expensive prosecution would have been "wasted". As it turned out, it was wasted, and not even a minor charge upheld. The idea must have penetrated her head that when he said he wasn't going to let her leave, that he had the real intention to inflict serious harm, hence her panic. I am amazed the journalists are not broaching this seeming prosecutorial omission, it is almost as if she is adjudged not worthy of having the press take up the cause. This matter now goes to an inquest, and something more may come from that.

Edited by Habitat
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I've just had a horrible thought: I wonder if the 'rod' Tostee was carrying when he left his apartment building was a cattle prod or taser of some sort?

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A lawyer friend sums it all up as the Jury's weakness to exercise their will to interpretation over the definition of 'threat' against the perceived decisions made of a consenting adult ... the video of her entering into the premises was the clincher, and the deprivation of liberty was argued away as an effort to ensure her 'safety' due to the condition she was in or the irrational state she was in ...

Not that it is determined as factual but the fact that this is a case of one citizen and one foreign might have some factors of influence on the Jury's conclusion ...

~

22 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

I've just had a horrible thought: I wonder if the 'rod' Tostee was carrying when he left his apartment building was a cattle prod or taser of some sort?

If it was and if it was used , there would have been physical indicators and signs registered in the autopsy report ...

~

All in all from a lawyer's point of view ... this was not a case of laws but more a case of perceptions ... if both defendant and deceased were Aussies things would have resulted in an entirely different verdict ~

~

I stand by my initial conclusions ... I have no words ... honestly ... none ...

 

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