Update on Scan Pyramid project Oct 2016

[Hanslune]

4 hours ago, Herr Falukorv said:

awesome thread

Tusen tack!

Well other than starting it I have made only a minor contribution. Many others have provide the meat while I just brought a table and chairs.

 

[Harte]

1 hour ago, mstower said:

We may consider Creighton’s other source, which is this Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_bald_ibis#In_culture

“This ibis was revered as a holy bird and a symbol of brilliance and splendour in Ancient Egypt,[73][74] where, together with the sacred ibis, it was regarded as a reincarnation of Thoth, scribe of the gods, . . .”

I see no clear citation for this.  The sources cited in notes 73 and 74 have nothing to say on the point, while note 75 cites Lucy (sic) Lamy, Egyptian Mysteries.  Lucie Lamy was the adopted daughter of René Adolphe Schwaller (de Lubicz).  I am not sure that I would regard this as an entirely reliable source, but as far as I recall, it says nothing of the kind.

M.

Could it be that Scott was the one who put that info on the wiki page?

Harte

[Hanslune]

54 minutes ago, Harte said:

Could it be that Scott was the one who put that info on the wiki page?

Harte

I'll put that section up at Hall of Ma'at and see what they say about it.

Done

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,615096

Add any additional comments please here or there.

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Hanslune

[Doc Socks Junior]

15 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Good catch Socks Junior. Yes that should have read thousand years not million years. Was likely thinking that’s how often SC is right. Once in millions of years.   

Heh. Thousands made sense given all the other quoted excursion dates. The reason I was specifically making sure is that 700 Myr ago (and much of the Neoproterozoic) is plagued by conflicting paleomagnetic data that may necessitate an explanation like large-scale axial tilting. Of course, inertial interchange true polar wander (just a 90 degree solid state rotation of mantle and lithosphere over the outer core) takes place "quickly" over the geological time scale but still is give or take on the same order of magnitude as plate motions. But about twice as "fast" as the known fastest, such as India plowing through the Tethys into Eurasia. But when you start having large cratonic masses moving well faster than India did recently, it raises a bit of a red flag.

 

15 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

An axial tilt like he presents would greatly interfere with both the geological and geomagnetic record yet we see no evidence of any such thing having happened. Again, it’s fiction. 

Indeed. The noted changes are explicable with secular variation. It's usually a good geologic rule of thumb to go with the simplest, most likely solution.

[kmt_sesh]

I'm late to the party, so it's already been adequately established that the graphic of Thoth in Scott's post is not a real inscription, nor even an antiquity, but is more like the cheesy sort of "ancient Egypt" nicknack one finds in tourist stores. Even the hieroglyphs are gibberish (usually a dead giveaway for a tourist bauble). It's also been noted but I'll add to the fact that the adornment on the figure's head is not even the crest of a crested ibis but is a very typical tripartite wig: the sort worn by upper-class folks in dynastic times, and the type often featured on relief carvings of deities and of course on countless Osiride coffins. It has nothing to do with the bird's plumage.

I'm not certain where Scott got the line drawing for the ibis—mstower, did you nail this down? It doesn't come from Gardiner, which to this day is the standard for classifications. I have Gardiner's venerable Egyptian Grammar (1976 edition), and on page 470 it's the G26 ibis he identifies as Thoth (regular ibis on a standard); he shows the variant with an asterick, which would later be classified as 26a, as the regular ibis without a standard. His entry for the crested ibis, G25, is not associated with Thoth.

Gardiner's sign list (I'm not crazy about citing Wikipedia, but the sign list is good there).

Below is an authentic relief carving for the god Thoth. Note the tripartite wig and the proper hand posture for holding a stylus (Kenemet noted this earlier) as compared to the tourist trinket in Scott's image:

And here is a hieroglyphic inscription in which Thoth is featured (second register from the left, just below center). This is the regular ibis on the standard (G26):

[kmt_sesh]

I should support a point I made in my previous post. The goddess Sekhmet is often shown with a tripartite wig:

So are many coffins from the Middle Kingdom on:

And countless ushabti figurines feature the wig, too:

[kmt_sesh]

43 minutes ago, Socks Junior said:

Heh. Thousands made sense given all the other quoted excursion dates. The reason I was specifically making sure is that 700 Myr ago (and much of the Neoproterozoic) is plagued by conflicting paleomagnetic data that may necessitate an explanation like large-scale axial tilting. Of course, inertial interchange true polar wander (just a 90 degree solid state rotation of mantle and lithosphere over the outer core) takes place "quickly" over the geological time scale but still is give or take on the same order of magnitude as plate motions. But about twice as "fast" as the known fastest, such as India plowing through the Tethys into Eurasia. But when you start having large cratonic masses moving well faster than India did recently, it raises a bit of a red flag.

 

Indeed. The noted changes are explicable with secular variation. It's usually a good geologic rule of thumb to go with the simplest, most likely solution.

Geomathematician? How'd you get so cool? 

[Doc Socks Junior]

12 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Geomathematician? How'd you get so cool? 

Got lucky. I wanted to do physics outside, so they handed me a modified chainsaw with drill bit and told me to make holes in rocks and measure the paleomagnetism. It all snowballed from there.

So I suppose I'm more of a geophysicist, but geomathematician has such a nice ring to it.

[mstower]

4 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I'm not certain where Scott got the line drawing for the ibis—mstower, did you nail this down? . . .

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Akh_glyph.svg

It appears here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_bald_ibis

M.

Edited December 8, 2017 by mstower
to add something.

[Windowpane]

Hart (214) on Thoth and the ibis.

[mstower]

With surprisingly little difficulty, I dug out my copy of Lucie Lamy, Egyptian Mysteries.  She discusses the akh and the ibis on pp. 24–5.  There is no suggestion of a connection with Thoth, through reincarnation or otherwise.

It would seem that a piece of folklore has found its way into Wikipedia via the Internet:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="reincarnation+of+thoth"+"ibis"

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="reincarnation+of+thoth"+"bald+ibis"

M.

[Scott Creighton]

Okay—a number of points I’d like to respond to.

First of all, some seem to be getting somewhat excited that the image I posted yesterday:

…was, quite rightly, identified as a modern composition. But that entirely misses the point (i.e. the big red arrow point in my image above). The signs on the panel are clearly identifiable ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic signs. Indeed, I am sure we could take Gardiner’s sign list and identify every sign on this panel; every sign, that is, with the exception of just ONE – the crested ibis on the standard. Now, as Kenemet kindly pointed out, it appears that aspects of this composition have been ‘inspired’ by actual AE tomb paintings of tomb inscriptions as well as paintings of Thoth himself. This is to say that the creator of this panel has evidently used actual AE artwork and signs  to draw upon in order to create this particular ensemble.

As such, we can reasonably infer from this that the artist of the composition would also have seen the crested ibis on a standard somewhere. This is to say that if the artist had relied on Gardiner’s sign list then they would surely have drawn the ibis that Gardiner identifies as the god Thoth (i.e. G26 ).

So I think it is reasonable to infer from this that the creator of this piece saw this crested ibis on the standard as an actual sign, probably in a tomb just as they likely did for all the other parts of the composition. If an artist is trying to make an authentic-looking piece, they are hardly likely to go making up their own signs. I know most here will disagree with this assessment but that’s my view. And I fully expect some of you will be along any moment to claim that it was ME WHO dunnit – that it was ME who created this piece or who photo-shopped that sign into the image (you know, like I apparently create Wiki entries that say BOTH these ibis species were symbolic of Thoth). Any time now – 5… 4… 3… 2… 1…

Secondly – about that Wiki entry. Yes, the source for the statement is not clear but, evidently, it seems the source was clear enough for the author to have made that particular point. But it seems also that a variety of other sources I have read have as many different views with some identifing only the sacred ibis as symbolising Thoth, others identifying both and some even identifying only the crested ibis as symbolising Thoth. Indeed, some sources even identify the Spoonbill (a close cousin of the ibis with many of its characteristics also as representing Thoth as a god).

Source.

So here we apparently have ANOTHER bird (albeit closely related to the ibis) that can apparently also represent Thoth as a deity. (And for the cynics - no, I didn’t create this image or text either).

Thus, we can reasonably ask, if the spoonbill can be regarded as symbolising the god Thoth, why not also the crested ibis? Indeed, simply because the ‘sacred ibis’ sign symbolises Thoth and many actual sacred ibis birds were mummified as Thoth, this should not mean that other ibis species cannot symbolise other aspects or characteristics of the god Thoth. Just as the Chi-Rho sign can identify the NAME of Christ, the sacred ibis can be used to identify the NAME of Thoth. And just as the dove can be used to identify another aspect of Christ (his baptism), the crested ibis may well symbolise another aspect of Thoth (his enlightened wisdom or insight). And, indeed, the Spoonbill, if the source above is correct, may symbolise yet another aspect of Thoth. The sacred ibis may only symbolise the god aspect of Thoth. Other species of ibis and even, it seems, Spoonbills may have symbolised other aspects/characteristics of Thoth.

Finally – I have said this a number of times now on this forum (and elsewhere) but I regard the crested ibis, first and foremost, as the harbinger or messenger of ‘a’ flood. This bird was revered in ancient times as the harbinger of the annual Nile flood and it is for this reason that I associate the crested ibis in ‘Akhet Khufu’ as being a logogram for ‘flood’ i.e. the enlightened bird that is the messenger of the flood.

But which flood?

Well, the crested ibis, while symbolising ‘coming flood’, also symbolises, imv, an aspect or characteristic of Thoth here (though not his actual name). It is the determinative of the pyramid rising from a pool (of water) that informs us of the nature of the flood we are dealing with here - we are dealing with the foretold Great Inundation (i.e. the flood foretold by Thoth that would drown the entire country and which may be linked to the Coptic-Egyptian texts which tell us the pyramids were constructed to mitigate the effects of a coming deluge). This is to say that the crested ibis doesn’t actually have to directly represent or be symbolic of Thoth (though, imv, it does symbolise a particular aspect of this god - the wisdom, insight, foresight, enlightened being of Thoth) but is, rather, the enlightened, wise bird that warns of the coming flood.

I hope that makes my thinking on this clearer. Will anyone here agree with my view. Don’t worry—I’m not holding my breath. You may retire now to your pyramid tombs.

 

SC

[Saru]

Thread cleaned again

Final warning regarding personal attacks and defamation of other members before we start handing out warnings.

Attack the points being presented, not the person who holds those views. 

Don't make it personal.

[stereologist]

Scott is the basis for your statement a modern piece of art? Regardless of how well a modern artist reproduces an image it is still a reproduction. You state the following:

Quote

As such, we can reasonably infer from this that the artist of the composition would also have seen the crested ibis on a standard somewhere.

No. We can guess that the artist made a mistake. We can suggest artistic license. We can suggest the artist had no idea what was being painted. We can suggest that the artist copied some other fake image.

The image carries  no information of value unless the discussion is about modern art and modern mistakes, which it is not in this thread.

You also state

Quote

I regard the crested ibis, first and foremost, as

Fine. You can regard it as anything you'd like. The issue of course is whether or not the AE regarded it in that manner.

Then there is this

Quote

So here we apparently have ANOTHER bird (albeit closely related to the ibis) that can apparently also represent Thoth as a deity.

The text does not suggest that. The text suggests these are sacred animals of Thoth.

Although these are in the same family, the birds look different and have different feeding habits. The habit that might have the AE considering them related would be that they sometimes nest near each other.

The argument that the image is meaningful is without merit.

[Kenemet]

3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Okay—a number of points I’d like to respond to.

First of all, some seem to be getting somewhat excited that the image I posted yesterday:

…was, quite rightly, identified as a modern composition. But that entirely misses the point (i.e. the big red arrow point in my image above). The signs on the panel are clearly identifiable ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic signs. Indeed, I am sure we could take Gardiner’s sign list and identify every sign on this panel; every sign, that is, with the exception of just ONE – the crested ibis on the standard. Now, as Kenemet kindly pointed out, it appears that aspects of this composition have been ‘inspired’ by actual AE tomb paintings of tomb inscriptions as well as paintings of Thoth himself. This is to say that the creator of this panel has evidently used actual AE artwork and signs  to draw upon in order to create this particular ensemble.

As such, we can reasonably infer from this that the artist of the composition would also have seen the crested ibis on a standard somewhere. This is to say that if the artist had relied on Gardiner’s sign list then they would surely have drawn the ibis that Gardiner identifies as the god Thoth (i.e. G26 ).

So I think it is reasonable to infer from this that the creator of this piece saw this crested ibis on the standard as an actual sign, probably in a tomb just as they likely did for all the other parts of the composition. If an artist is trying to make an authentic-looking piece, they are hardly likely to go making up their own signs. I know most here will disagree with this assessment but that’s my view. And I fully expect some of you will be along any moment to claim that it was ME WHO dunnit – that it was ME who created this piece or who photo-shopped that sign into the image (you know, like I apparently create Wiki entries that say BOTH these ibis species were symbolic of Thoth). Any time now – 5… 4… 3… 2… 1…

Secondly – about that Wiki entry. Yes, the source for the statement is not clear but, evidently, it seems the source was clear enough for the author to have made that particular point. But it seems also that a variety of other sources I have read have as many different views with some identifing only the sacred ibis as symbolising Thoth, others identifying both and some even identifying only the crested ibis as symbolising Thoth. Indeed, some sources even identify the Spoonbill (a close cousin of the ibis with many of its characteristics also as representing Thoth as a god).

Source.

So here we apparently have ANOTHER bird (albeit closely related to the ibis) that can apparently also represent Thoth as a deity. (And for the cynics - no, I didn’t create this image or text either).

Thus, we can reasonably ask, if the spoonbill can be regarded as symbolising the god Thoth, why not also the crested ibis? Indeed, simply because the ‘sacred ibis’ sign symbolises Thoth and many actual sacred ibis birds were mummified as Thoth, this should not mean that other ibis species cannot symbolise other aspects or characteristics of the god Thoth. Just as the Chi-Rho sign can identify the NAME of Christ, the sacred ibis can be used to identify the NAME of Thoth. And just as the dove can be used to identify another aspect of Christ (his baptism), the crested ibis may well symbolise another aspect of Thoth (his enlightened wisdom or insight). And, indeed, the Spoonbill, if the source above is correct, may symbolise yet another aspect of Thoth. The sacred ibis may only symbolise the god aspect of Thoth. Other species of ibis and even, it seems, Spoonbills may have symbolised other aspects/characteristics of Thoth.

Finally – I have said this a number of times now on this forum (and elsewhere) but I regard the crested ibis, first and foremost, as the harbinger or messenger of ‘a’ flood. This bird was revered in ancient times as the harbinger of the annual Nile flood and it is for this reason that I associate the crested ibis in ‘Akhet Khufu’ as being a logogram for ‘flood’ i.e. the enlightened bird that is the messenger of the flood.

But which flood?

Well, the crested ibis, while symbolising ‘coming flood’, also symbolises, imv, an aspect or characteristic of Thoth here (though not his actual name). It is the determinative of the pyramid rising from a pool (of water) that informs us of the nature of the flood we are dealing with here - we are dealing with the foretold Great Inundation (i.e. the flood foretold by Thoth that would drown the entire country and which may be linked to the Coptic-Egyptian texts which tell us the pyramids were constructed to mitigate the effects of a coming deluge). This is to say that the crested ibis doesn’t actually have to directly represent or be symbolic of Thoth (though, imv, it does symbolise a particular aspect of this god - the wisdom, insight, foresight, enlightened being of Thoth) but is, rather, the enlightened, wise bird that warns of the coming flood.

 

You really aren't helping yourself here.  You really shouldn't do a snatch-and-grab of images. 

The hieroglyph in question is made up (you can check Worterbuch, if you like - no such hieroglyph exists.  So it isn't the name of Thoth.

You are better served by hunting through museum catalogs. The spoonbill image that you cited is actually the image of a GODDESS.  The version you show is trimmed and was taken from a photo licensing site (which is not picky about materials or accuracy.)  The full image shown here shows the top edge of her dress and her breast: 

The original photographer carefully cited the information from the museum and it can be checked by accessing the museum's collections.

• Brussels, Koninklijke Musea voor Kunst en Geschiedenis/Musées Royaux d'Art et d'Histoire, August 2013
• A unique representation of an Egyptian goddess with the head of a white spoonbill (Platalea leucorodia). The identity of this goddess is unknown. The relief fragment was discovered in the temple of Hatshepsut in Deir el-Bahari, but dates from a much later period. 
• E. 3045. Late Period (ca. 500 BCE). From Deir el-Bahari. Limestone, painted. 25 x 27.5 cm.

Thoth was not a cross-dresser.

You said you would be held to the standards of an Egyptologist.  No Egyptologist would make a mistake like that.

Rather than proving your point, you've presented material that disproves your point.

The group of hieroglyphs you are trying to read is incomplete (Like trying to say that "ranunculi" only reads "ran").  The full set reads "town of Akhet Khufu."  The Akheru are not Thoth.  You have not linked any reliable document (from the Egyptians of the Old Kingdom, not anybody else) saying that Thoth was going to end the world with a flood.

 

If you wish to correct these errors, you will have to

• find a real AE dictionary source to show Thoth is represented by the crested ibis on a standard
• find a real AE document from the Old Kingdom that talks about an end of the world flood (not "this sentence taken out of context means" as is so common with substandard "research" on the Pyramid Texts.  If it was that important, the entire document would be about this matter, not a phrase in the middle of a long work about something else.)
• Show evidence of pre-existing pyramids by presenting something from the third dynasty or earlier that has the pyramid symbol (pyramid with its enclosure wall)

Bonus round:

• Find a real AE source that states Thoth decided to dress up as a spoonbill female goddess for some reason.  This sort of thing does exist but as far as I know, Thoth never did this.

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Kenemet

[Hanslune]

4 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Finally – I have said this a number of times now on this forum (and elsewhere) but I regard the crested ibis, first and foremost, as the harbinger or messenger of ‘a’ flood. This bird was revered in ancient times as the harbinger of the annual Nile flood and it is for this reason that I associate the crested ibis in ‘Akhet Khufu’ as being a logogram for ‘flood’ i.e. the enlightened bird that is the messenger of the flood.

"I regard", so what? You have no evidence to support this opinion, other than stuff you've made up, SO this opinion is based on your own opinions - feel free to write a historical fiction novel on the subject. Building opinions based on earlier opinions is known in some circles as the cascade of failure. So basically you are restating your opinion and demanding we accept it as fact. Your assumptions are just that, baseless assumption which you PERSONALLY believe in. Religion not science. You could write a paper and see if anyone knowledgeable on the subject would agree with you but that has three problems; one you won't dare try that as this argument is pitched at the level of believers and not scientists, secondly it doesn't even make much sense, third you're not recognized as an expert on this subject so your opinion has no weight, compelling knowledge or experience behind it. You wish to be judged as a Egyptologist would? Okay. then write the paper.

In an intermediate step you could try and to asnwer Kenemet's questions - and all the other questions you've avoided:

Quote

If you wish to correct these errors, you will have to

• find a real AE dictionary source to show Thoth is represented by the crested ibis on a standard
• find a real AE document from the Old Kingdom that talks about an end of the world flood (not "this sentence taken out of context means" as is so common with substandard "research" on the Pyramid Texts.  If it was that important, the entire document would be about this matter, not a phrase in the middle of a long work about something else.)
• Show evidence of pre-existing pyramids by presenting something from the third dynasty or earlier that has the pyramid symbol (pyramid with its enclosure wall)

Bonus round:

• Find a real AE source that states Thoth decided to dress up as a spoonbill female goddess for some reason.  This sort of thing does exist but as far as I know, Thoth never did this.

Edited to add a source provided from the Hall of Ma'at thread on the term 'reincarnation.

https://archive.org/details/thoththehermes00boyluoft

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Hanslune

[Oniomancer]

On 11/23/2017 at 5:18 AM, Scott Creighton said:

 

Now, I am not saying either that the locations of these pyramids present a point-for-point perfect match but the general outline IS there. But regardless of whether this pyramid-Osiris correlation was intended or not, the PTs DO tell us the pyramid is the body of Osiris and that this 'body' (i.e. the 16 pyramid body) was drowned.

And neither am I saying the builders designed this 'Osiris plan'. It stands to reason that the construction locations of these 16 or so pyramids would have been determined first and foremost by the proximity of good limestone quarries. The locations of these are, naturally, entirely random. That a random distribution of quarry sites could form a stick-man outline of Osiris is highly unlikely. This is to say that the AE builders of these 16 pyramids did not commence their pyramid-building project with this Osiris figurine as the template for the location/distribution of these pyramids. Rather, the Osiris figurine arose much later from the scattered arrangement of these first pyramids. This is not unlike star asterisms. The stars are randomly scattered across our heavens and have been there long before mankind ever existed. When man came along we decided to join these random points of light into recognisable human or animal forms. The point I am making is that we created these recognisable human/animal forms long after the stars were born. 
 

SC

If it was addressed previously I missed it but as plans go it seems rather...haphazard. Start at Saqqara, up to Zawiret al-Aryan, all the way down to Meidum, back up to Dashur then all the way up to Giza , over to Abu Roash, back over to Giza, down to Zawiret al-Aryan again and finally back up to Giza. An intricate design to be sure. Worthy of the famed construction and engineering firm of Fine, Howard & Howard.

That aside, in examining the satellite maps one seems to notice considerable, how shall I say, deflection in the position of the nodes relative to those shown in the image of Osiris. Some attempt was made to reflect this but not nearly enough, to the point that the actual alleged geoglyph becomes so contorted and attenuated it effectively vanishes. Hardly the 1:1 alignment implied even if one assumes the chosen points on the image  to be significant and thus reasonably attributable to statistical noise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

 

[Kenemet]

For completeness' sake, I did look up the symbols for the Egyptian nomes because there is one nome (the 15th nome) in Upper Egypt that is called the Ibis-Thoth nome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nome_(Egypt)) and its deity is Thoth.   I found its symbol in the Routledge Dictionary of Gods and Goddesses (Hart, George. The Routledge dictionary of Egyptian gods and goddesses. Psychology Press, 2005.)

It's a non-crested ibis (the symbol for Thoth) on a standard, shown on page 104.  

Further, the only animals associated with Thoth are the ibis and the baboon. (Routledge, op cit, p. 156 ff)  No spoonbills or crested ibises or anything else.  Confirmed with other books in my small collection.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Kenemet

[cormac mac airt]

Has anyone else noticed that the Osiris layout image that SC provided, and to which Oniomancer recently replied, shows #10 as Zawiyet al-Aryan whereas it actually is located at/near Saqqara. Zawiyet al-Aryan is actually 6 miles +/- northwest of Saqqara. I'd say that's a significant error based on what the image claims. 

cormac

[Hanslune]

16 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Has anyone else noticed that the Osiris layout image that SC provided, and to which Oniomancer recently replied, shows #10 as Zawiyet al-Aryan whereas it actually is located at/near Saqqara. Zawiyet al-Aryan is actually 6 miles +/- northwest of Saqqara. I'd say that's a significant error based on what the image claims. 

cormac

I believe he noted earlier that he had made an error there - nothing like good editing! It had gone unnoticed for five years.

The above link is the first rendition of this idea of Osiris maps using dots made from pyramids.

[cormac mac airt]

20 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I believe he noted earlier that he had made an error there - nothing like good editing! It had gone unnoticed for five years.

The above link is the first rendition of this idea of Osiris maps using dots made from pyramids.

I'd call it a rather egregious error since it's not even a near match, disregarding his admittance to not being a "perfect match" considering that the position of #10 ceases to exist as originally shown and actually appears further to the northwest of #3. That pretty much invalidates his claim as anything other than pareidolia IMO.

cormac

Edited December 9, 2017 by cormac mac airt

[Hanslune]

Good news Rupert and Betty have married. I was not invited but it has been reported to me that vegetarian human sacrifices are truly lame. Eleven tofu humans were burnt or had their 'hearts' (artichokes) plucked out. More to the point they informed me that there were no seeds vaults in AE there were however attached to the temples emergency storage cairns. The word for that was 'constructed' using hieroglyph for granary, flood and feast.

[Hanslune]

2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I'd call it a rather egregious error since it's not even a near match, disregarding his admittance to not being a "perfect match" considering that the position of #10 ceases to exist as originally shown and actually appears further to the northwest of #3.

cormac

Well its fiction and not science so don't expect anything really accurate - it only has to convince the fringe, who at this time have not abandoned the ideas of Dunn and others for Creighton's idea.

[kmt_sesh]

It really bothers me that our Administrator had to step in to issue a final warning, and this after my own recent warning. It's almost as though some posters want to get this thread closed. Knock it off. You won't get further warnings. May we please discuss and debate like adults?

[Kenemet]

...by the way (today I learned that) the crested ibis is not an Egyptian bird.  It's Chinese/Japanese and Egypt isn't on its migration path.

There are three different kinds of ibis in Egypt, however: http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/bestiary/ibis.htm

So who came up with the term, "Crested Ibis"?  Translators did (I don't know which one) - that's how they described the ibis bird with the head decoration. 

Egypt has three kinds of ibis birds - the Glossy Ibis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossy_ibis, the Sacred Ibis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_sacred_ibis, and the Hermit Ibis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_bald_ibis.  The Hermit ibis does have a crest, so the hieroglyph actually might have been indicating this particular species.

Now... the Nile floods between June and August: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_of_the_Nile

This is not a real match for the migration pattern of this the Hermit Ibis.  From Wikipedia:

Quote

Satellite tagging of 13 Syrian birds in 2006 showed that the three adults in the group, plus a fourth untagged adult, wintered together from February to July in the highlands of Ethiopia, where the species had not been recorded for nearly 30 years. 

So rather than coming to Egypt in time for the flood, the hermit ibis is already in Egypt.  They leave for Europe during the Nile floods.

For the Egyptians, the sign of the flood was the heliacal rising of the star, Sothis (i.e. Sirius) which occurred late June to early July during dynastic Egypt.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Kenemet