Update on Scan Pyramid project Oct 2016

[stereologist]

1 hour ago, Hanslune said:

Its actually a slide show. It shows the typical fringe 'pick a dot and imagine that the AE thought it was really important', So the AE built the pyramids to sight on it, used the tunnels to sight on it, etc, for reasons not made very clear and then noting that it doesn't point at it anymore and the different can then be, by some mathematically gymnastics, made to produce a date usually going back to the magical 10,500 or in this case a bit older.

I got 5 minutes into that slide show and got bored by the obvious errors. I stopped at Dodwell the astronomer. i looked up his work. The slide show does not mention that Dodwell proposed an impact in 2345BC and that is the cause of the axial tilt he predicted by looking at man built monuments. Using Dodwell for issues preceding 2345BC is either a big blunder or possibly deception.

Since Dodwell, paleomagnetic studies reveal no pole shift in the last 200My. A proposed pole shift in the Cretaceous was shown to be incorrect.

[Hanslune]

7 minutes ago, stereologist said:

I got 5 minutes into that slide show and got bored by the obvious errors.

 

You sir are weak, WEAK I say, no stomach for true fringe? Huh, lol I had fortunately (I believe) seen it before long ago so was more immune to its gross doltishness. Try watching a few episodes of 'My mother the car' it will strengthen one will against vast fatuousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Mother_the_Car

[stereologist]

I looked up the pole shift by planet claim that came after Dodwell and it seems that the article mentioned has 5 citations - all 5 from the authors building upon that same idea.

 

[stereologist]

Just now, Hanslune said:

You sir are weak, WEAK I say, no stomach for true fringe? Huh, lol I had fortunately (I believe) seen it before long ago so was more immune to its gross doltishness. Try watching a few episodes of 'My mother the car' it will strengthen one will against vast fatuousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Mother_the_Car

I remember that show. It was awful.

The slide show begins and fails right away. It is asked, how do we get past this failure? The answer is to make a rash assumption. This leads to another failure. How to get past it? Make another big assumption. The fringe has no hurdle too high for it to disregard. The ludicrous nature of the ideas was boring.

The odd thing about the Mars sized planet on a highly eccentric orbit is that it should have moved to a stable orbit or been ejected from the system billions of years ago. That is one of the huge problems with the idea of a Nibiru type of planet - can't exist in a highly eccentric orbit over time in a system with so many other planets with which to interact. Also, transfer of momentum would cause a shift to a less eccentric orbit in a 2 body system.

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, stereologist said:

I got 5 minutes into that slide show and got bored by the obvious errors. I stopped at Dodwell the astronomer. i looked up his work. The slide show does not mention that Dodwell proposed an impact in 2345BC and that is the cause of the axial tilt he predicted by looking at man built monuments. Using Dodwell for issues preceding 2345BC is either a big blunder or possibly deception.

Since Dodwell, paleomagnetic studies reveal no pole shift in the last 200My. A proposed pole shift in the Cretaceous was shown to be incorrect.

For the sake of accuracy it ought to be mentioned that while there have been no long-term polar shifts in the last 700 million years (Matuyama-Brunhes (AKA Brunhes-Matuyama) transition) there have been several magnetic excursions/shorter duration shifts within that same timeframe to include the following, for example:

circa 671 +/- 12 ka BP:  Stage 17 Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrb.50214/epdf)

circa 579 ± 6 ka BP:  “Big Lost” Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal         (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrb.50214/full)

circa 211,000 +/- 13 kya BP:  Pringle Falls Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://booksite.elsevier.com/brochures/geophysics/PDFs/00095.pdf)

     (http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=64660)

circa 192,000 BP – 189,000 BP:  (Midpoints) Iceland Basin Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GC005564/abstract)

circa 116.5 ± 0.7 kyr BP - 112.0 ± 1.9 kyr BP:  Blake Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013AGUSMGP21A..05P)

     (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379114003217)

circa 41,400 BP:  Laschamp Event – Short term Polar Reversal – circa 440 years duration     (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12003421)

     (http://phys.org/news/2012-10-extremely-reversal-geomagnetic-field-climate.html)

circa 33,000 BP:  Mono Lake Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://booksite.elsevier.com/brochures/geophysics/PDFs/00095.pdf)

circa 12,400 C14-years BP/14,600 cal yrs BP:  Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion:  The Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion or “Flip” occurred at 12,400 C14-yrs BP [16] [17] [18]. This implieas that it has the same age as the Halland-1 paleoseismic event [2]. Because we now know that earthquake shaking may significantly affect magnetic orientation [14], one may wonder if the Gothenburg Excursion or Flip might not be an artifact from the ground shaking of the 12,400 C14-yrs BP earthquake event ([2], p. 285). Paleomagnetic perturbation at about 12,400 C14-yrs BP has been recorded in 10 sites in southern Sweden and the Baltic covering an area of 300 × 400 km.

     (http://file.scirp.org/pdf/OJER_2017110814455470.pdf)

cormac

[Hanslune]

1 minute ago, stereologist said:

I remember that show. It was awful.

The odd thing about the Mars sized planet on a highly eccentric orbit is that it should have moved to a stable orbit or been ejected from the system billions of years ago. That is one of the huge problems with the idea of a Nibiru type of planet - can't exist in a highly eccentric orbit over time in a system with so many other planets with which to interact. Also, transfer of momentum would cause a shift to a less eccentric orbit in a 2 body system.

It truly was I hated that show and that was at a time I LIKED Gilligan's island.

However, off topic, the recent discovery of the out of the solar system asteroid provides another possible way a planet can come in and smash into the earth etc.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/20/16679890/interstellar-asteroid-oumuamua-pan-starrs-solar-system

I'm looking forward to seeing that new information incorporated into fringe theory.

[Hanslune]

3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

For the sake of accuracy it ought to be mentioned that while there have been no long-term polar shifts in the last 700 million years (Matuyama-Brunhes (AKA Brunhes-Matuyama) transition) there have been several magnetic excursions/shorter duration shifts within that same timeframe to include the following, for example:

circa 671 +/- 12 ka BP:  Stage 17 Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrb.50214/epdf)

circa 579 ± 6 ka BP:  “Big Lost” Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal         (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrb.50214/full)

circa 211,000 +/- 13 kya BP:  Pringle Falls Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://booksite.elsevier.com/brochures/geophysics/PDFs/00095.pdf)

     (http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=64660)

circa 192,000 BP – 189,000 BP:  (Midpoints) Iceland Basin Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GC005564/abstract)

circa 116.5 ± 0.7 kyr BP - 112.0 ± 1.9 kyr BP:  Blake Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013AGUSMGP21A..05P)

     (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379114003217)

circa 41,400 BP:  Laschamp Event – Short term Polar Reversal – circa 440 years duration     (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12003421)

     (http://phys.org/news/2012-10-extremely-reversal-geomagnetic-field-climate.html)

circa 33,000 BP:  Mono Lake Geomagnetic Excursion – Polar Reversal     (http://booksite.elsevier.com/brochures/geophysics/PDFs/00095.pdf)

circa 12,400 C14-years BP/14,600 cal yrs BP:  Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion:  The Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion or “Flip” occurred at 12,400 C14-yrs BP [16] [17] [18]. This implieas that it has the same age as the Halland-1 paleoseismic event [2]. Because we now know that earthquake shaking may significantly affect magnetic orientation [14], one may wonder if the Gothenburg Excursion or Flip might not be an artifact from the ground shaking of the 12,400 C14-yrs BP earthquake event ([2], p. 285). Paleomagnetic perturbation at about 12,400 C14-yrs BP has been recorded in 10 sites in southern Sweden and the Baltic covering an area of 300 × 400 km.

     (http://file.scirp.org/pdf/OJER_2017110814455470.pdf)

cormac

Cormac any sign of a axial tilt? However I cannot see anyway a tilting of the earth, by impact or otherwise (?) would be recorded or noted beyond precession.

[stereologist]

I agree cormac mac airt. These magnetic orientation changes are independent of the concept of an axial tilt.

[stereologist]

Just now, Hanslune said:

Cormac any sign of a axial tilt? However I cannot see anyway a tilting of the earth, by impact or otherwise (?) would be recorded or noted beyond precession.

Paleomagnetic studies show an axial tilt that is large around 800Mya. I recall that the tilt motion was on the order of 1m a year.

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Hanslune said:

Cormac any sign of a axial tilt? However I cannot see anyway a tilting of the earth, by impact or otherwise (?) would be recorded or noted beyond precession.

While an interesting idea there is no actual evidence of an axial tilt of the type claimed in SC's youtube video. It should also be pointed out that for a Mars sized object to affect the earth's axial tilt as claimed ALL LIFE on the planet would be irradicated. Since, obviously, we're still here the claim can be summarily dismissed for gross lack of evidence. Imagine that. 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Paleomagnetic studies show an axial tilt that is large around 800Mya. I recall that the tilt motion was on the order of 1m a year.

That is both true and irrelevant to the history of human civilization, contrary to any fringe ramblings otherwise. 

cormac

[Hanslune]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

While an interesting idea there is no actual evidence of an axial tilt of the type claimed in SC's youtube video. It should also be pointed out that for a Mars sized object to affect the earth's axial tilt as claimed ALL LIFE on the planet would be irradicated. Since, obviously, we're still here the claim can be summarily dismissed for gross lack of evidence. Imagine that. 

cormac

Yes I would imagine such a hit would cause world wide earthquakes of 'Biblical' proportions if not transfering enough energy to melt part of the crust.

[Hanslune]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

That is both true and irrelevant to the history of human civilization, contrary to any fringe ramblings otherwise. 

cormac

Great stuff but I must go do some mundane tasks, Thanks to Stereo and Cormac for informative postings!

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Hanslune said:

Yes I would imagine such a hit would cause world wide earthquakes of 'Biblical' proportions if not transfering enough energy to melt part of the crust.

Even the Bible couldn't do such an impact justice. It would be like comparing pushing over someone's sand castle to a Magnitude 10 earthquake. Ridiculous in the extreme. 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

Quote

circa 12,400 C14-years BP/14,600 cal yrs BP:  Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion:  The Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion or “Flip” occurred at 12,400 C14-yrs BP [16] [17] [18]. This implieas that it has the same age as the Halland-1 paleoseismic event [2]. Because we now know that earthquake shaking may significantly affect magnetic orientation [14], one may wonder if the Gothenburg Excursion or Flip might not be an artifact from the ground shaking of the 12,400 C14-yrs BP earthquake event ([2], p. 285). Paleomagnetic perturbation at about 12,400 C14-yrs BP has been recorded in 10 sites in southern Sweden and the Baltic covering an area of 300 × 400 km.

     (http://file.scirp.org/pdf/OJER_2017110814455470.pdf)

Another point that should be brought up is that the Gothenburg Excursion would have happened approximately 900 years BEFORE the claimed 11,500 BP event in the youtube video and there is no evidence of a magnetic shift or excursion happening at the later date, and more specifically no evidence of such an event happening then reverting to normal after happening during the GE then reverting to normal again. Quite a quandry he's left himself with IMO. 

cormac

Edited November 29, 2017 by cormac mac airt
Clarified dates

[stereologist]

To give some perspective on the polar shift idea here is a paper discussing the slow nature and small amount of shift that has occurred.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002JGRB..107.2300B

Quote

The typical duration of these periods is on the order of a few tens of millions of years with wander rates during fast tracks on the order of 30 to 50 km/Myr. A total TPW of some 30° is suggested for the last 200 Myr. We find no convincing evidence for episodes of superfast TPW such as proposed recently by a number of authors.

 

[Harte]

7 hours ago, Hanslune said:

You sir are weak, WEAK I say, no stomach for true fringe? Huh, lol I had fortunately (I believe) seen it before long ago so was more immune to its gross doltishness. Try watching a few episodes of 'My mother the car' it will strengthen one will against vast fatuousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Mother_the_Car

I am one of what might be a very small population here that didn't need the wiki link.

I can still sing most of that theme song.

Harte

[Piney]

28 minutes ago, Harte said:

I am one of what might be a very small population here that didn't need the wiki link.

I can still sing most of that theme song.

Harte

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

I am one of what might be a very small population here that didn't need the wiki link.

I can still sing most of that theme song.

Harte

You poor devil!

[Harte]

Yeah, I always liked Jerry Van Dyke.

Harte

[Hanslune]

7 minutes ago, Harte said:

Yeah, I always liked Jerry Van Dyke.

Harte

Now there is man who can identify his personal problem. They have medication and restrains to help you with that don't you know?

[kmt_sesh]

10 hours ago, Hanslune said:

You sir are weak, WEAK I say, no stomach for true fringe? Huh, lol I had fortunately (I believe) seen it before long ago so was more immune to its gross doltishness. Try watching a few episodes of 'My mother the car' it will strengthen one will against vast fatuousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Mother_the_Car

I've never heard of this show you guys are talking about. Second worst of all time, eh? It seems to have gone off the air about four months before I was born, so I timed it just right.

[kmt_sesh]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

Yeah, I always liked Jerry Van Dyke.

Harte

I used to live in Hot Springs, Arkansas. So did he (at least at that time). I liked to eat at this very nice Italian restaurant downtown and would often see him there. Never spoke to the man but he was well know in those parts.

[Kenemet]

23 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Cormac any sign of a axial tilt? However I cannot see anyway a tilting of the earth, by impact or otherwise (?) would be recorded or noted beyond precession.

No - and the ancient stone calendars such as Stonehenge show that there was no such thing.  A change in the Earth's tilt would throw these ancient markers completely off-kilter.

[Kenemet]

This discourse seems to be suffering from "Gish Gallop" or somesuch, so I will split my reply.

I will comment that your idea of what Egyptologists use as reference and support is not at all in line with what I've been reading in my classes and certainly not in line with what I've had to do for my homework in Egyptology.  

However.... onward!  So let's address the "recovery vault"

Quote

 SC: This plan to build all of these 16/19 pyramid Recovery Vaults (this ‘Project Osiris’ for want of a better title) would, by necessity, have been a multi-generation plan, each pyramid built by different kings.  So why wouldn’t their names be associated with the particular pyramid structures they built? And, of course, with a plan to built 16/19 Recovery Vaults, each king would have been duty-bound to build as many in his reign as he could. Which better explains why a number of AE kings built many puramids.

First of all, the interior structure is not consistent with the design of existing Egyptian storehouses.  They are, however, consistent (in size and shape) with the development and evolution of passages and rooms within mastaba tombs.  I mention this to point out that the pyramids's "hallways" and rooms are very small (interior dimensions) and would have held less grain and supplies than the average nome temple, which distributed grain and cloth and similar goods on a yearly basis.  In addition, once something was inside one of the pyramids (such as the Great Pyramid), getting anything OUT of there so it could be used is very problematic.  As you probably know if you've been inside the GP (I have), hauling a 20 lb sack of grain up the long passageway in the dark (or taking it down) would be extremely difficult.  It would take a lot of time to empty those vaults... anything down there is not accessible.  

Unlike Nome temples, the area around the pyramids is not well suited for distribution or for getting information on what and how much needed to be placed in the structure.  The economic activity at these temples would have given every pharaoh (or vizir) an accurate idea of just how much material would be needed to help the local people recover from a disaster in their area.  

Second, the pyramids are not well positioned for the recovery or distribution of anything.  The entrances to them were often low and the burial chamber (as others have noted) is actually below the level of the surface... in case of flood or other event, the pyramid entrance is very easily lost/covered up.  That means all the material that you indicated would be placed in there would be unavailable to help anyone in case of a disaster. 

LIke the pyramid of Menkaure:  Tiny rooms, low entrance:

 

or the pyramid of Sekhemkhet (unfinished, that you said was "part of Osiris" - equally unsuitable 

Pyramid of Khaba (also on your list) is in even worse shape and has even smaller rooms

 

And how would anyone have known that these abandoned structures, buried under sand, were pyramids?  

Let's contrast that with the Nome Temples, which WERE used as points of  recovery and distribution, particularly in disasters.  Nome Temples were placed in every nome of the land and their "arms" were the smaller local temples.... unlike the pyramids which you say are "recovery vaults" that are clustered in a few locations.  Nome temples were continually repaired and expanded by successive pharaohs... unlike the pyramids.  Nome temples and ordinary temples are accessible by those in need.  They had storehouses (much larger than the pyramid interiors) and they also housed libraries... and copies of the scrolls were put in more than one library.  They also had the continuous economic support of the pharaohs through donations (mentioned in many temples) and land grants.

None of this is true of the pyramids.

Your statement that the cemeteries "grew up" around the pyramids is incorrect.  The pyramids were placed in existing graveyards.

 

(more later)

Edited November 30, 2017 by Kenemet