Update on Scan Pyramid project Oct 2016

[jmccr8]

9 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Now you're in for it!  The showrunners will send the snake, the crocodile, and the dog after you for revealing the ending to the "Search For Hetty" story arc.

(and the Great Cat of Re will shed in your soup!)

She kinda looked like she was squatting over the bowl is that howshe sheds?

jmccr8

[cormac mac airt]

3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

 

Call it 'artistic license'.

 

SC

Rather disingenuous of you to say the least. Since you're attempting to use constellations to support your fictitious claim I challenge you to show IN ANY CONSTELLATION where a line is drawn from one outline star, squeezed between two others (of that constellation) and randomly changes direction to connect with another outline star. Again, pareidolia and making up stuff. 

cormac

Edited December 11, 2017 by cormac mac airt
clarification

[mstower]

6 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Atlante: compare to the White Chapel symbol for nome 15 of Lower Egypt. 

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/geo/nomel15.html

Kenemet: That's the phoenix (bennu) and is very differet from the crested ibis.

Kmt_Sesh: Good catch. I missed that post. This is what happens because of my boid brain.

SC:  Curious why this sign (of Thoth) isn’t present in Gardiner’s list of birds either? Perhaps someone just made it up and it doesn’t really exist?

Did someone say that Gardiner’s list is comprehensive?  That seems to be more your idea.  No, it is not comprehensive.  Notably it lacks the nome symbols, which is why the Unicode encoding of hieroglyphs (which follows Gardiner) had to extend the list to include them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_hieroglyphs#List

Nome 15 of Lower Egypt would normally be represented by something like this:

That’s right, the good old (non-crested) ibis, on a suitably elaborate standard.  I do not know why the UCL site assigns the bennu to this nome.  More research is suggested.

6 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Oh what’s that – Thoth pouring out a deluge of water? And is that a pyramid rising out of water at the bottom of the register (right side)?

Call that a deluge?  The average wˤb-priest would pour as much.  That’s the kind of thing we’re seeing here: a libation or a purification ritual—and no, that is not a pyramid.  It’s the sandy slope, Gardiner N29, phonetic value ḳ.

Strange how quickly you’ve forgotten that the hieroglyph for pyramid looks like this:

http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1124656,1125864#msg-1125864

Have you now quietly dropped the idea that the rectangle at base is Gardiner N27 (the garden pool)?

I suggest you go back to basics and stop trying to make up your own Egyptology.

M.

[cormac mac airt]

17 minutes ago, mstower said:

Did someone say that Gardiner’s list is comprehensive?  That seems to be more your idea.  No, it is not comprehensive.  Notably it lacks the nome symbols, which is why the Unicode encoding of hieroglyphs (which follows Gardiner) had to extend the list to include them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_hieroglyphs#List

Nome 15 of Lower Egypt would normally be represented by something like this:

That’s right, the good old (non-crested) ibis, on a suitably elaborate standard.  I do not know why the UCL site assigns the bennu to this nome.  More research is suggested.

Call that a deluge?  The average wˤb-priest would pour as much.  That’s the kind of thing we’re seeing here: a libation or a purification ritual—and no, that is not a pyramid.  It’s the sandy slope, Gardiner N29, phonetic value ḳ.

Strange how quickly you’ve forgotten that the hieroglyph for pyramid looks like this:

http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1124656,1125864#msg-1125864

Have you now quietly dropped the idea that the rectangle at base is Gardiner N27 (the garden pool)?

I suggest you go back to basics and stop trying to make up your own Egyptology.

M.

I'm thinking that the rounded peak of N29 in Scott's picture should have been a dead giveaway just by itself. 

cormac

[Kenemet]

8 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Atlante: compare to the White Chapel symbol for nome 15 of Lower Egypt. 

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/geo/nomel15.html

Kenemet: That's the phoenix (bennu) and is very differet from the crested ibis.

Kmt_Sesh: Good catch. I missed that post. This is what happens because of my boid brain.

SC:  Curious why this sign (of Thoth) isn’t present in Gardiner’s list of birds either? Perhaps someone just made it up and it doesn’t really exist?

Yes, the Bennu (phoenix). A bird that also symbolises Thoth.  Quite appropriate really when you consider the pyramids were, according to the Coptic-Egyptian texts, built as ‘arks’ or ‘Recovery Vaults’ to ensure the rebirth/recovery/renewal of the kingdom from the imminent flood foretold by Thoth.

Oh what’s that – Thoth pouring out a deluge of water? And is that a pyramid rising out of water at the bottom of the register (right side)?

 

SC

Can you link a source for your statement that the bennu is one of the emblems for Thoth?

Everything else (dictionaries, etc) say it's the ba of Re (sometimes Atum or Osiris) and is also the emblem of rebirth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennu (along with other sources.)

The Bennu is G31 in Gardiner... G32 on standard.  The bennu with a flag is not listed in Gardiner - Gardiner does not list every single hieroglyph and variation.  Budge also records the Bennu on a standard on p. 218, left column.  

And no, that's not a pyramid rising out of the water.  It's the lion's tail of the kilt that Thoth is wearing.  Part of his standard appearance as a deity.   Also, he's not pouring out a deluge.  It's a purification/libation.  There are countless examples of this purification/libation scene with many different deities.

Like Horus:
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/horus-performing-purification-ritual-relief-temple-of-horus-deir-picture-id479641537

Most commonly you'll see scenes of a pair of deities (often Horus and Thoth) pouring a libation (where the water turns into ankhs) over a pharaoh's head.

With a little effort we can translate the hieroglyphs next to Thoth and find out.

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Kenemet

[mstower]

4 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

And no, that's not a pyramid rising out of the water.  It's the lion's tail of the kilt that Thoth is wearing.  Part of his standard appearance as a deity.

Are you looking at the same thing?  I think he means the thing in the rightmost register of hieroglyphs, sandy slope (N29) above ripple of water (N35).

M.

[cormac mac airt]

For anyone else having problems that would be the second register, third symbol from the bottom directly above the foot. 

Edit to add:  There's just no way to confuse sandy slope (N29) with pyramid (O24) unless one is just not paying attention/looking. 

cormac

Edited December 11, 2017 by cormac mac airt

[Kenemet]

1 minute ago, mstower said:

Are you looking at the same thing?  I think he means the thing in the rightmost register of hieroglyphs, sandy slope (N29) above ripple of water (N35).

M.

Oh.  If he meant the rightmost register he should have said the rightmost register.

Amusingly enough, this image is Not Exactly Egyptian.  It's a relief of Thoth at the Roman temple of Dier el Hagar Dakla Oasis (which does explain the slight "off-scale" appearance of Thoth and the less detailed execution of the hieroglyphs)

Interesting story on it here: https://www.egypttoursplus.com/deir-el-hagar-temple/

It was dedicated to Nero (!) https://egyptsites.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/deir-el-hagar/

[mstower]

5 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Oh.  If he meant the rightmost register he should have said the rightmost register.

Amusingly enough, this image is Not Exactly Egyptian.  It's a relief of Thoth at the Roman temple of Dier el Hagar Dakla Oasis (which does explain the slight "off-scale" appearance of Thoth and the less detailed execution of the hieroglyphs)

Interesting story on it here: https://www.egypttoursplus.com/deir-el-hagar-temple/

It was dedicated to Nero (!) https://egyptsites.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/deir-el-hagar/

Conversely, the hieroglyphs themselves say late or later.

How this tells a story of the pyramid age is other than obvious.

M.

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, mstower said:

Conversely, the hieroglyphs themselves say late or later.

How this tells a story of the pyramid age is other than obvious.

M.

According to Scott BS'ing ones way through the facts is called artistic license. In the same vein I could (but don't) claim that the actual layout of the pyramids Scott uses is a stick man representation of Howard the Duck in crown after a heavy meal. 

cormac

[kmt_sesh]

Well, you all covered the latest points in very good detail, so no reason for me to elaborate. I'm just going to go to bed. See you tomorrow.

[Scott Creighton]

Cormac: According to Scott BS'ing ones way through the facts is called artistic license.

From: here.

Kmt_Sesh: “So I'd call it artistic license, but I rather doubt the artist found a depiction of Thoth as a crested ibis on an actual relief or painting. If he did, it might be interesting to see the source, because it's always entertaining to find mistakes in inscriptions (the Egyptians made plenty of them). But I honestly don't think the explanation is that exotic. Artistic license.”

From here.

SC: So when Kmt_Sesh invokes “artistic license” with regards to the disputed crested ibis glyph in the modern piece, that’s perfectly acceptable. But when an alternative thinker does likewise, it’s “BS'ing”.  I’m beginning to see how this works.

When the disputed crested ibis sign is not found in Gardiner’s list, it was apparently made up by the artist “…I rather doubt the artist found a depiction of Thoth as a crested ibis…” – Kmt_sesh). But when the bennu on a standard isn’t found in Gardiner’s list this is simply because “Gardiner does not list every single hieroglyph and variation” (Kenemet).

Thus - when the disputed crested ibis isn’t found in Gardiner’s list, it’s because it was made up by the artist. But when another sign – the bennu on a standard – isn’t found in Gardiner’s list, it’s because Gardiner didn’t list every sign and variation. I’m definitely seeing a pattern here.

If every sign and variation thereof hasn’t been listed, HOW then can anyone regard the disputed crested ibis on a standard as being made up and the other as simply unlisted? Why can't BOTH simply be unlisted?

How and ever… moving onwards…

N29 – yes, I see that now. Thanks. I’ll come back to other signs in this temple below.

Kenemet: “…The Bennu is G31 in Gardiner... G32 on standard.  …”

SC: No – G32 is the Bennu upon a PERCH, NOT a standard and signifies inundation/flood.. So, returning to the Bennu found on a standard (signifying a deity) in this temple of Thoth, which deity do you consider this bennu on the standard refers to? Any idea - and why?

 As far as I can make out, the inscription below  (top of right-hand register) …

 

 …reads something like ‘Granary brought [by] Thoth’ – something like that? I’m not sure if the sign above the bread loaf (‘t’) is the sign for ‘granary’ (Gardiner’s O51 - it has a pointed tip like a pyramid rather than a flat top) or is perhaps a ‘perch’ sign associated with the sacred Ibis above? If this is a perch sign (to be associated with the scared Ibis above it), then this would read something like “Inundation brought [by] Thoth’ or something similar.

Your thoughts, Kmt_Sesh?

 SC

Edited December 12, 2017 by Scott Creighton

[mstower]

3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Cormac: According to Scott BS'ing ones way through the facts is called artistic license.

From: here.

Kmt_Sesh: “So I'd call it artistic license, but I rather doubt the artist found a depiction of Thoth as a crested ibis on an actual relief or painting. If he did, it might be interesting to see the source, because it's always entertaining to find mistakes in inscriptions (the Egyptians made plenty of them). But I honestly don't think the explanation is that exotic. Artistic license.”

From here.

SC: So when Kmt_Sesh invokes “artistic license” with regards to the disputed crested ibis glyph in the modern piece, that’s perfectly acceptable. But when an alternative thinker does likewise, it’s “BS'ing”.  I’m beginning to see how this works.

Are you really?  I profoundly doubt it.  On the contrary, this is a notable example of your muddled thinking.

Cormac and kmt_sesh are two separate people.  Taxing them with inconsistency as if they were one is silly.

Kmt_sesh is not claiming artistic licence for himself.  He is perfectly clear in attributing the exercise of artistic licence to the artist or designer of that modern depiction of Thoth—you know, the one you mistook for evidence—as an explanation of the otherwise unevidenced usage it shows, crested ibis on standard.

Who is exercising artistic licence in the case of your glorified “alternative thinker”?  The alternative thinker.  BS is right.

Equivocation on the word “invoke”.

3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

When the disputed crested ibis sign is not found in Gardiner’s list, it was apparently made up by the artist “…I rather doubt the artist found a depiction of Thoth as a crested ibis…” – Kmt_sesh). But when the bennu on a standard isn’t found in Gardiner’s list this is simply because “Gardiner does not list every single hieroglyph and variation” (Kenemet).

Thus - when the disputed crested ibis isn’t found in Gardiner’s list, it’s because it was made up by the artist. But when another sign – the bennu on a standard – isn’t found in Gardiner’s list, it’s because Gardiner didn’t list every sign and variation. I’m definitely seeing a pattern here.

Yes, we know about your pareidolia.

Reminder: Gardiner’s list includes G26, ibis on standard.  If there were an equivalent usage, crested ibis on standard, it should be present on the same criteria—but never mind Gardiner.  Where is there any evidence at all for crested ibis on standard as a real, ancient usage?  All you are doing here is frantically hammering another of your favourite fallacies, argument from ignorance.

And as I’ve already explained (and you’ve pretended to ignore), the animal usually representing Nome 15 of Lower Egypt, the Ibis nome (a clue there) is (guess?) the ibis.  Why UCL has depicted the bennu is uncertain.  The grounds for doing so are not coming from the White Chapel, as it states in respect of that source “block missing or no entry”:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/geo/nomel15.html

As I wrote, more research is suggested (and not your endless attempts to foist the products of your “artistic licence” upon us).

3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Kenemet: “…The Bennu is G31 in Gardiner... G32 on standard.  …”

SC: No – G32 is the Bennu upon a PERCH, NOT a standard . . .

So you’ve finally understood (our having told you) that there’s a difference?

3 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

 As far as I can make out, the inscription below  (top of right-hand register) …

 

 …reads something like ‘Granary brought [by] Thoth’ – something like that? I’m not sure if the sign above the bread loaf (‘t’) is the sign for ‘granary’ (Gardiner’s O51 - it has a pointed tip like a pyramid rather than a flat top) or is perhaps a ‘perch’ sign associated with the sacred Ibis above? If this is a perch sign (to be associated with the scared Ibis above it), then this would read something like “Inundation brought [by] Thoth’ or something similar.

The scared ibis?  Well it might be.

Caution is suggested.  There is more to this than looking up individual hieroglyphs and then trying to puzzle out a meaning which fits your agenda.  There is syntax, inflection, abbreviated and formulaic writings etc.

Edit to add: It’s worse than I thought.  It’s plainly a standard (not perch) and the pointy thing is plainly separate from it.  It’s the heron (bennu, phoenix) we find on a perch (as Gardiner G32), not the scared ibis.

M.

Edited December 12, 2017 by mstower
to catch a typo.

[mstower]

A clearer image of that figure of Thoth in the temple of Hathor at Deir el-Medina:

Now consider in sequence what Ancient Treasures made of this:

No strong attempt at accuracy, but the register of hieroglyphs in front of the figure is retained (thanks Kenemet).

The figure is the same as on the smaller plaque, but the arrangement of hieroglyphs is entirely a product of “artistic licence”.  One hieroglyph only appears in roughly the same place, the one depicting the scribal kit (Gardiner Y3) .

Edit to add: I note to my amusement that on the orginal and on the smaller plaque, the (non-crested) ibis on standard with feather appears at approximatly the same position (relative to the figure) as the crested ibis on standard which Creighton got so excited about.  We see the original and it is the normal, well-attested writing.

M.

Edited December 12, 2017 by mstower
to add something.

[cormac mac airt]

20 minutes ago, mstower said:

A clearer image of that figure of Thoth in the temple of Hathor at Deir el-Medina:

Now consider in sequence what Ancient Treasures made of this:

No strong attempt at accuracy, but the register of hieroglyphs in front of the figure is retained (thanks Kenemet).

The figure is the same as on the smaller plaque, but the arrangement of hieroglyphs is entirely a product of “artistic licence”.  One hieroglyph only appears in roughly the same place, the one depicting the scribal kit (Gardiner Y3) .

Edit to add: I note to my amusement that on the orginal and on the smaller plaque, the (non-crested) ibis on standard with feather appears at approximatly the same position (relative to the figure) as the crested ibis on standard which Creighton got so excited about.  We see the original and it is the normal, well-attested writing.

M.

I’d say that pretty much shows Creighton’s knowledge of AE hieroglyphs and their usage as “artistic license”.

cormac

[Kenemet]

12 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

N29 – yes, I see that now. Thanks. I’ll come back to other signs in this temple below.

Kenemet: “…The Bennu is G31 in Gardiner... G32 on standard.  …”

SC: No – G32 is the Bennu upon a PERCH, NOT a standard and signifies inundation/flood.. So, returning to the Bennu found on a standard (signifying a deity) in this temple of Thoth, which deity do you consider this bennu on the standard refers to? Any idea - and why?

 As far as I can make out, the inscription below  (top of right-hand register) …

 

 …reads something like ‘Granary brought [by] Thoth’ – something like that? I’m not sure if the sign above the bread loaf (‘t’) is the sign for ‘granary’ (Gardiner’s O51 - it has a pointed tip like a pyramid rather than a flat top) or is perhaps a ‘perch’ sign associated with the sacred Ibis above? If this is a perch sign (to be associated with the scared Ibis above it), then this would read something like “Inundation brought [by] Thoth’ or something similar.

Your thoughts, Kmt_Sesh?

 SC

Ack.  Yes indeed.  Picked the wrong symbol. That's a heron on a perch, as I saw when I went back and checked.

I have looked for a photo of the original for the "heron on a standard" designation for the 15th nome and I can'f find a single photo of it.  I have no idea what happened to my own photos of the wall, so I can't say one way or another.  However, it's not on a "temple of Thoth"...it's the White Chapel of Senusret I and is (I believe) dedicated to the pharaoh himself.

As to the photo, I think it's "Thoth brings/Thoth bringing""...

[Sundog]

Meanwhile, back at The Pyramid: other interesting techniques are being employed to further enhance our understanding of the Great Pyramid's construction.

 

[kmt_sesh]

17 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Cormac: According to Scott BS'ing ones way through the facts is called artistic license.

From: here.

Kmt_Sesh: “So I'd call it artistic license, but I rather doubt the artist found a depiction of Thoth as a crested ibis on an actual relief or painting. If he did, it might be interesting to see the source, because it's always entertaining to find mistakes in inscriptions (the Egyptians made plenty of them). But I honestly don't think the explanation is that exotic. Artistic license.”

From here.

SC: So when Kmt_Sesh invokes “artistic license” with regards to the disputed crested ibis glyph in the modern piece, that’s perfectly acceptable. But when an alternative thinker does likewise, it’s “BS'ing”.  I’m beginning to see how this works.

When the disputed crested ibis sign is not found in Gardiner’s list, it was apparently made up by the artist “…I rather doubt the artist found a depiction of Thoth as a crested ibis…” – Kmt_sesh). But when the bennu on a standard isn’t found in Gardiner’s list this is simply because “Gardiner does not list every single hieroglyph and variation” (Kenemet).

Thus - when the disputed crested ibis isn’t found in Gardiner’s list, it’s because it was made up by the artist. But when another sign – the bennu on a standard – isn’t found in Gardiner’s list, it’s because Gardiner didn’t list every sign and variation. I’m definitely seeing a pattern here.

If every sign and variation thereof hasn’t been listed, HOW then can anyone regard the disputed crested ibis on a standard as being made up and the other as simply unlisted? Why can't BOTH simply be unlisted?

How and ever… moving onwards…

N29 – yes, I see that now. Thanks. I’ll come back to other signs in this temple below.

Kenemet: “…The Bennu is G31 in Gardiner... G32 on standard.  …”

SC: No – G32 is the Bennu upon a PERCH, NOT a standard and signifies inundation/flood.. So, returning to the Bennu found on a standard (signifying a deity) in this temple of Thoth, which deity do you consider this bennu on the standard refers to? Any idea - and why?

 As far as I can make out, the inscription below  (top of right-hand register) …

 

 …reads something like ‘Granary brought [by] Thoth’ – something like that? I’m not sure if the sign above the bread loaf (‘t’) is the sign for ‘granary’ (Gardiner’s O51 - it has a pointed tip like a pyramid rather than a flat top) or is perhaps a ‘perch’ sign associated with the sacred Ibis above? If this is a perch sign (to be associated with the scared Ibis above it), then this would read something like “Inundation brought [by] Thoth’ or something similar.

Your thoughts, Kmt_Sesh?

 SC

I'd identify the top glyph as a fairl typical Thoth ibis standing behind the Maat feather. That's a common theme down through dynastic history. I am not fond of Roman Period inscriptions. Even though this one is in really clear high relief, so much of the inscription is only cursorily detailed and some of it looks amorphous to me. And my generally bad vision doesn't help.

But that glyph above the loaf certainly looks to me like U28, generally with the sound value DA: 

It's a fire drill, and I've seen many inscriptions in which the top portion is very thick, and others where it's skinny. It's a very common glyph and is used in numerous words. Now, I'm not having much luck with this inscription but would parse this portion of it as:

DHwty ini.n DAt.n...

"Thoth arrived and provided..."

That's as far as I got because I'm not confident about the funny-looking bird thing down below that. A ba bird, perhaps? Kenement, and mstower, any thought on this? But overall the inscription is about a blessing Thoth is performing. He's in a very common pose of pouring a libation vessel.

[kmt_sesh]

6 hours ago, mstower said:

A clearer image of that figure of Thoth in the temple of Hathor at Deir el-Medina:

Now consider in sequence what Ancient Treasures made of this:

No strong attempt at accuracy, but the register of hieroglyphs in front of the figure is retained (thanks Kenemet)....

You're a wizard, martin. How do you find this stuff? Yes, I'd agree the top was an inspiration for the wall plaque.

[mstower]

3 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

You're a wizard, martin. How do you find this stuff? Yes, I'd agree the top was an inspiration for the wall plaque.

Credit to Kenemet for spotting the original, this is just a better image of it.  I would add that the two (not very clear) registers at top are also retained from the original, including the ibis on standard with Maat feather.  Adding the lunar disc precluded retention of the others at top.

Looks like in further development of the image (for the larger plaque), the ibis on standard (with Maat feather) got turned into the spurious crested ibis on standard.

I was looking for something on that other Thoth image when I stumbled over this one.

M.

[mstower]

4 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

But that glyph above the loaf certainly looks to me like U28, generally with the sound value DA: 

It's a fire drill, and I've seen many inscriptions in which the top portion is very thick, and others where it's skinny. It's a very common glyph and is used in numerous words. Now, I'm not having much luck with this inscription but would parse this portion of it as:

DHwty ini.n DAt.n...

"Thoth arrived and provided..."

“Thoth brought the remainder”????

4 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

That's as far as I got because I'm not confident about the funny-looking bird thing down below that. A ba bird, perhaps? Kenement, and mstower, any thought on this? . . .

Bird hieroglyphs are not my favourite thing and this one is damaged as well as being of Roman-period quality.  Could be Horus for all I can tell.

M.

[Scott Creighton]

5 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I'd identify the top glyph as a fairl typical Thoth ibis standing behind the Maat feather. That's a common theme down through dynastic history. I am not fond of Roman Period inscriptions. Even though this one is in really clear high relief, so much of the inscription is only cursorily detailed and some of it looks amorphous to me. And my generally bad vision doesn't help.

But that glyph above the loaf certainly looks to me like U28, generally with the sound value DA: 

It's a fire drill, and I've seen many inscriptions in which the top portion is very thick, and others where it's skinny. It's a very common glyph and is used in numerous words. Now, I'm not having much luck with this inscription but would parse this portion of it as:

DHwty ini.n DAt.n...

"Thoth arrived and provided..."

That's as far as I got because I'm not confident about the funny-looking bird thing down below that. A ba bird, perhaps? Kenement, and mstower, any thought on this? But overall the inscription is about a blessing Thoth is performing. He's in a very common pose of pouring a libation vessel.

Thanks Kmt_Sesh. That's probably it (U28) although the sign in the Thoth image seems more squat/bloated. I see it's a logogram for "live long, prosper and be healthy". Any idea as to the root of this sign?

SC

[mstower]

20 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

Thanks Kmt_Sesh. That's probably it (U28) although the sign in the Thoth image seems more squat/bloated. I see it's a logogram for "live long, prosper and be healthy".

No, it’s an abbreviation for part of that formula, wḏ3 in ˤnḫ wḏ3 snb (Gardiner).

20 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

Any idea as to the root of this sign?

Not sure what you mean by this, can  you explain?

M.

[mstower]

Obtusely I overlooked that this is a standard writing of Ḏḥtwy (Thoth):

It may appear in such abbreviated forms as this:

This one is predefined in Serge Rosmudorc’s JSesh (which is what I’m using, obviously).

The strokes here are purely phonetic: no dual.

Here is a version:

M.

Edited December 13, 2017 by mstower
because the editor is insane.

[mstower]

JSesh has these as G31E and G26C:

M.