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Fate of ExoMars lander hangs in the balance

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paperdyer

I wonder if the ESA knows about where their probe ended up and whether our current Rover is near enough to check on the ESA probe,  It would be a shame if the probe crashed or impaled itself on something on landing.

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Derek Willis

Hopefully another one hasn't bit the dust.

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Merc14

Too bad, it would've been nice if their landing system worked.  Hopefully the telemetry they did get will show them the problem so they can correct it for their rover

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Twin

Has only NASA launched successful ground missions to Mars?

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Merc14
40 minutes ago, Twin said:

Has only NASA launched successful ground missions to Mars?

Yes, NASA is the only agency that has had success to date but it is a very challenging environment and NASA's success has come through the loss of several of their own spacecraft at the red planet.  Lessons learned the hard way but ESA's plan, in my amateur mind, looked sound and hopefully the failure was not an indictment of their basic landing design.  The more the merrier, in my mind, and a brand new communications platform helps everyone conquer the new world we are exploring.

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DieChecker

Hopefully not upside down, or landed in a deep dusty sand dune.

Edited by DieChecker
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seeder

UPDATE:   Not looking good folks
 

Quote

 

Schiaparelli Mars probe's parachute 'jettisoned too early'

Europe's Schiaparelli lander did not behave as expected as it headed down to the surface of Mars on Wednesday.

Telemetry data recovered from the probe during its descent indicates that its parachute was jettisoned too early.

The rockets it was supposed to use to bring itself to a standstill just above the ground also appeared to fire for too short a time.

The European Space Agency (Esa) has not yet conceded that the lander crashed but the mood is not positive.

Experts will continue to analyse the data and they may also try to call out to Schiaparelli in the blind hope that it is actually sitting on the Red Planet intact.

In addition, the Americans will use one of their satellites at Mars to image the targeted landing zone to see if they can detect any hardware. Although, this is a slim hope because the probe is quite small.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37715202


 

 

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DieChecker

Hopefully not another "Inches -> millimeters" round off error..... :(

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flabbins

I expect the Martians are getting peed off with silly little robots landing on their planet

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geraldnewfie

more waste of money sending stupid probes, we already know enough to send humans there so use money to advance in space travel

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, geraldnewfie said:

more waste of money sending stupid probes, we already know enough to send humans there so use money to advance in space travel

Why not ? What's a couple of trillion$ when you're already 20 trillion down the hole ? :cry:

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geraldnewfie

well still better then wasting on wars in middle east

 

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Derek Willis

I am sure the ESA ExoMars team won't be too disheartened because the orbiter seems to be working fine. The main purpose of the orbiter - the Trace Gas Orbiter - is to look for and analyse gasses in Mars' atmosphere that may indicate signs of life, e.g. methane. To cheer up the team, here is about the worst pun you will ever hear - is the science of analyzing gasses on an astronomical body known as gastronomy?

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Merc14

Schiaparelli was mainly there to test their proposed lander technology so if the telemetry data can tell them what went wrong then it will have accomplished much of its mission.  The lander only had a few, very basic, instruments on it that were to run on battery power for just a few hours (8 or so) so no real loss to the main science mission.  

Originally it was supposed to carry an expensive science package but that was scaled way back due to cost overruns and in hindsight that was a good decision as the landing was ultimately unsuccessful although it seemed to do a good job getting the package down to very near the surface. 

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Derek Willis
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Schiaparelli was mainly there to test their proposed lander technology so if the telemetry data can tell them what went wrong then it will have accomplished much of its mission.  The lander only had a few, very basic, instruments on it that were to run on battery power for just a few hours (8 or so) so no real loss to the main science mission.  

Originally it was supposed to carry an expensive science package but that was scaled way back due to cost overruns and in hindsight that was a good decision as the landing was ultimately unsuccessful although it seemed to do a good job getting the package down to very near the surface. 

It was a pity the landing failed, because a success - even if the lander was relatively basic - would have been a symbolic triumph after the failure of the ESA lander Beagle II in 2003. Any failure of a lander shows how difficult landing is on Mars is - something the proponents of "low cost" manned flights to Mars (i.e. Mars One) ought to be more open about when they make exaggerated claims of how safe this will be. I know Elon Musk is keen to send people to Mars, but I still think it will be the vastly experienced NASA who will carry out the first manned missions (hopefully in my lifetime!).

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Doc Socks Junior

It got the package all the way down quicker than scheduled and put more objects on the surface than initially planned for!

Seems like a big win to me.

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Timothy
17 hours ago, Socks Junior said:

It got the package all the way down quicker than scheduled and put more objects on the surface than initially planned for!

Seems like a big win to me.

Hur hurr. Sad but seemingly true.

Parachute deploys early, is destroyed. Descent velocity is much higher than planned, boosters fire at planned altitude and fire for a much shorter time because the lander is obliterated as it touches Martian earth.

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Peter B
On 20/10/2016 at 10:59 PM, flabbins said:

I expect the Martians are getting peed off with silly little robots landing on their planet

Aw, I don't know :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjiGH9QNiU0

 

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Merc14

Telemetry is telling ESA that the parachute was jettisoned too early and the rockets fired for too short a time.  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37707776

It was a technology demonstrator and provided valuable data for the next landing attempt, a rover if funding is secured, so not a total loss from an engineering perspective I guess but a clean landing is always preferred obviously..

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keithisco
22 hours ago, Derek Willis said:

It was a pity the landing failed, because a success - even if the lander was relatively basic - would have been a symbolic triumph after the failure of the ESA lander Beagle II in 2003. Any failure of a lander shows how difficult landing is on Mars is - something the proponents of "low cost" manned flights to Mars (i.e. Mars One) ought to be more open about when they make exaggerated claims of how safe this will be. I know Elon Musk is keen to send people to Mars, but I still think it will be the vastly experienced NASA who will carry out the first manned missions (hopefully in my lifetime!).

Hopefully, with a manned mission the avionics will carry the same Warnings, Cautions, and Advisories to the flight crew that atmospheric aircraft have on earth - allowing human interventions to prevent premature parachute separation and / or insufficient retro-rocket thrust duration. These safety interlocks are fairly basic and simple to implement. I also have the sneaky suspicion that the Chinese just might beat ESA and NASA to a manned landing...

Edited by keithisco
Who's asking?

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Merc14
8 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Hopefully, with a manned mission the avionics will carry the same Warnings, Cautions, and Advisories to the flight crew that atmospheric aircraft have on earth - allowing human interventions to prevent premature parachute separation and / or insufficient retro-rocket thrust duration. These safety interlocks are fairly basic and simple to implement. I also have the sneaky suspicion that the Chinese just might beat ESA and NASA to a manned landing...

Why do you think the Chinese can get there before ESA or NASA when they haven't even got a spacecraft in orbit around Mars much less landed one on the planet?  They seem more interested in lunar exploration than planetary exploration right now.

Edited by Merc14

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keithisco

Considering that India has a Mars orbiter, and China is pushing ahead with its "2020 Chinese Mars Mission" with the intention of performing a "Sample Return" mission in the 2030´s then I believe they just might steal a march on the west.

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Merc14
47 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Considering that India has a Mars orbiter, and China is pushing ahead with its "2020 Chinese Mars Mission" with the intention of performing a "Sample Return" mission in the 2030´s then I believe they just might steal a march on the west.

So India having a small craft orbiting Mars means China beats the rest of the world to a manned Mars landing.  :huh:

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keithisco
21 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

So India having a small craft orbiting Mars means China beats the rest of the world to a manned Mars landing.  :huh:

Did I say that? NO... I simply stated that China MIGHT get there first. After all they don't have to rely on Congress approving, or otherwise, funds for any mission they wish to plan. NASA and ESA both have to get past all the pork on Capitol Hill and Brussels.

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