bee Posted October 22, 2016 #51 Share Posted October 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Clair said: We want the hackers not their piddling little errand boys. . really.... maybe you would like him tortured to reveal the hackers ---? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted October 22, 2016 #52 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just now, bee said: . really.... maybe you would like him tortured to reveal the hackers ---? . Get real Bee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted October 22, 2016 #53 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just now, Clair said: Get real Bee. . I'll take that as a 'no comment' ----- . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted October 22, 2016 #54 Share Posted October 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, Clair said: And if we were to pull out heads from the sand, what would we see exactly? "... others [calling] for the killing of messengers"? Someone being "suicided with two bullets in the back of his head"? You've made some extreme claims, and I see nothing "silly' in requesting evidence to support them. Tell you what...how about you do a search on the word sequence "can't we just drone the guy" and get back here with what you've found in the way of attribution and context. 'k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 22, 2016 #55 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Assange in the Embassy as to date cost the British tax payer £14.7million (2016) - What a complete waste. for all the people who support this man they've never met. Has he changed your lives or the world for that matter with Wikileaks? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted October 22, 2016 #56 Share Posted October 22, 2016 . nearly 16 million people have watched the video linked to below --- I think that alone has probably changed the world a little bit in regards to perception of the war in Iraq..?... the recently released emails connected to the US Election have changed the world a bit as well --- that's just a couple of examples --- but basically you either '''get''' WikiLeaks or you don't -- you either value it or you don't -- 'Collateral Murder' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted October 22, 2016 #57 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Allrighty everyone... Let's all step back and take it down a notch with the nasty commentary please. This topic can be discussed in a nice and civil manner. Rashore, moderating team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashotep Posted October 23, 2016 Author #58 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, Clair said: Assange will be arrested by UK police for breaching his bail conditions as soon as he steps out of the Ecuadorian embassy. He will first have to face that charge before being extradited to Sweden where authorities want to question him on the rape (and other) allegations that have been brought against him. Assange maintains that the allegations are all part of some ruse to have him extradited to the US where he might face the death penalty. It's important to note that the US has not filed any such extradition request. Besides, if we really wanted him, we could have nabbed the little coward long before he sought refuge at the Ecuadorian embassy. Furthermore, in breaking the conditions of his bail, he did so without consideration of his various supporters who paid more than $300,000 in sureties and cash so that he could be granted bail in the first place. Just because they haven't filed extradition papers yet doesn't mean they don't have the paper work ready to go. He won't be given the death penalty just life in prison. Hillary however has said she would like to see him droned. So maybe the UK or Sweden wouldn't turn him over if she becomes president. Edited October 23, 2016 by Ashotep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted October 23, 2016 #59 Share Posted October 23, 2016 32 minutes ago, Ashotep said: Just because they haven't filed extradition papers yet doesn't mean they don't have the paper work ready to go. He won't be given the death penalty just life in prison. Hillary however has said she would like to see him droned. So maybe the UK or Sweden wouldn't turn him over if she becomes president. If the US wanted to extradite Assange, their best opportunity to do so would be whilst he was in the UK. Extradition to the US from Sweden would be extremely more difficult. If the US tried to extradite Assange from Sweden, for example, they would need consent from both it and the UK as per Section 58 of the UK's Extradition Act. Once Sweden has completed its investigation and any criminal proceedings, they can then extradite Assange without referring back to the UK. However, neither the UK or Sweden will extradite someone to a country where the accused might be in peril of the death penalty. Even if the death penalty was not on the table, there's no guarantee that either the UK or Sweden would immediately comply with the extradition request, Indeed, they might not comply at all. I provided some information on Sweden's extradition process in a previous post. To understand how difficult it would be to extradite someone from the UK, all you have to do is look at the cases of Gary McKinnon and Richard O'Dwyer. As for Hillary wanting to drone Assange, it's an unconfirmed allegation supposedly from an anonymous source. No court in either Sweden or the UK would take it seriously or in any way consider it in any of their proceedings. Finally, no one can say with any certainty whether Assange would be given the death penalty or life in prison as no charges against him have been filed. Without charges and a conviction, any discussion about sentencing would be pointless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungleboogie Posted October 23, 2016 #60 Share Posted October 23, 2016 If I was stuck in that embassy, I'd get The Ecuador embassy to hold a 'dress up as Assange' day and invite some supporters, 10 or 20 thousand would do the trick. Easy escape and off to the races. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted October 23, 2016 #61 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, stevewinn said: Assange in the Embassy as to date cost the British tax payer £14.7million (2016) - What a complete waste. for all the people who support this man they've never met. Has he changed your lives or the world for that matter with Wikileaks? . Assange would agree with you Steve about it being an unnecessary expense - but as it's his freedom on the line I don't think he could agree that it's a waste of money - - there may be a couple of reasons that his enemies are itching to get their hands on him right now ---- Brexit (which he supported) could mean that eventually the European Arrest Warrant that is being used to try and get him sent to Sweden on the politically motivated trumped up charges --- could be scrapped --- also if Trump wins the election over in the US the heat could be off him a bit --- http://www.mintpressnews.com/wikileaks-julian-assange-freed-brexit-says-eu-bad-uk-uk-bad-eu/217736/ Quote Assange is wanted for questioning in Sweden over allegations of improper sexual behavior with two women. He was granted political asylum by Ecuador over fears that he would be extradited from Sweden to the United States, where he could face decades in prison thanks to a secretive federal grand jury convened to consider charges over WikiLeaks’ hosting of classified, leaked documents. But on Thursday, in the so-called “Brexit” referendum, U.K. residents narrowly voted to leave the EU, and Assange believes this historic moment could eventually lead to a dramatic change in his circumstances. Appearing by video connection from the embassy in a June 12 interview with the ITV News program “Peston on Sunday,” Assange told host Robert Peston that because he’s facing arrest under a European arrest warrant (or EAW), the U.K. claims it’s forced to engage in an “extremely expensive siege” of the embassy. Round-the-clock monitoring of the embassy, which would enable British authorities to immediately place Assange under arrest if he steps outside, has cost the U.K. about £15 million, according to a live counter published by GovWaste.co.uk. “That’s a fundamental basis of sovereignty, is random officials in the rest of the European Union can’t suddenly force your police to arrest people,” Assange said, noting that he is not the only person in this situation. He said this was one reason he personally supported a “Leave” vote on the Brexit referendum. Edited October 23, 2016 by bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted October 23, 2016 #62 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Jungleboogie said: If I was stuck in that embassy, I'd get The Ecuador embassy to hold a 'dress up as Assange' day and invite some supporters, 10 or 20 thousand would do the trick. Easy escape and off to the races. I wonder what would happen if they all walked out with a JA mask on. The bobbies would be very busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted October 23, 2016 #63 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) . Julian Assange talks about his legal situation (briefly at the beginning) and about Brexit and the H. Clinton emails --- 00:15 ---- " I have political asylum at this embassy in relation to a US espionage investigation which is now in it's 5th year - the largest ever investigation and pending prosecution of a publisher - a very serious business - my co defendant Chelsea Manning was sentenced to 35 years in prison and tortured in that prison - a finding of the UN and the US military itself" (Manning is the US serviceman who leaked the Collateral Murder footage to WikiLeaks) Edited October 23, 2016 by bee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted October 23, 2016 #64 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well i couldn't imagine living in a embassy for 5 years... then again its gotta be better than be in prison. Not by much though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted October 23, 2016 #65 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) If Assange indeed had evidence that Sweden and the US were colluding, then why did he not present it when he first challenged his extradition to Sweden? With such evidence, he could have been able to present a case showing that extradition to the US could possibly subject him to treatment (such as torture) that would breach his rights under the European Convention of Human Rights and/or the Refugee Convention. And yet, interestingly, that was not the case he put forward. He came up with the story AFTER he learned that the UK was going to extradite him to Sweden (whereupon he would be arrested for the rape and other charges brought against him there) and when he needed a compelling case to obtain refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy. Here are the judgements of the Administrative Court and the UK Supreme Court. It's also worth noting that whilst Assange was challenging his extradition to Sweden, he was walking around the UK a free man. If the US had planned some sinister CIA snatch and run plan as he once suggested, they could have done it in the blink of an eye. Furthermore, if the US wanted to extradite him, they would have taken the easier route and filed a request for extradition from the UK. And yet, none of that happened. So if indeed what he says in that video is true, then the onus is on him to present his evidence, because until he does, all indications point to someone who skipped bail, not because of some elaborate plan to get him to the US where he would be incarcerated and tortured, but because he did not want to face the serious charges brought against him in Sweden. Edited October 23, 2016 by Clair Fixed source urls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 23, 2016 #66 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, bee said: . Assange would agree with you Steve about it being an unnecessary expense - but as it's his freedom on the line I don't think he could agree that it's a waste of money - - there may be a couple of reasons that his enemies are itching to get their hands on him right now ---- Brexit (which he supported) could mean that eventually the European Arrest Warrant that is being used to try and get him sent to Sweden on the politically motivated trumped up charges --- could be scrapped --- also if Trump wins the election over in the US the heat could be off him a bit --- http://www.mintpressnews.com/wikileaks-julian-assange-freed-brexit-says-eu-bad-uk-uk-bad-eu/217736/ Its pretty telling he went to the anti-US (embassy) of Ecuador, you'd think him being Australian he'd have headed for Australia house. These so-called whistle blowers should have the moral conviction, and if they truly believe in their cause, take on the system and have their day in court, the fact they hide (Assange and Snowden) in Ecuadorian or Russian airports tells us all we need to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted October 23, 2016 #67 Share Posted October 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, stevewinn said: Its pretty telling he went to the anti-US (embassy) of Ecuador, you'd think him being Australian he'd have headed for Australia house. These so-called whistle blowers should have the moral conviction, and if they truly believe in their cause, take on the system and have their day in court, the fact they hide (Assange and Snowden) in Ecuadorian or Russian airports tells us all we need to know. . bolded --- indeed it does - that the law is an a$$ and can't be trusted in highly charged political cases like the one being discussed - and US allies will more or less do what they are told - woe betide them if they don't - they might end up at the back of the queue a day in court then a life time behind bars doesn't sound like a very attractive prospect to me -- Can you honestly say, Steve, that if you were in Assange's shoes right now you would trust the courts.. moral conviction or not ...? . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted October 23, 2016 #68 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Clair said: So if indeed what he says in that video is true, then the onus is on him to present his evidence, because until he does, all indications point to someone who skipped bail, not because of some elaborate plan to get him to the US where he would be incarcerated and tortured, but because he did not want to face the serious charges brought against him in Sweden. . you mean serious charges, for example like whether he allegedly deliberately ripped a condom (or not) --- when it is the accusers word against his --- and nothing more - sounds more like twaddle to me - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden Quote but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing. When he was later interviewed by police in Stockholm, Assange agreed that he had had sex with Miss A but said he did not tear the condom, and that he was not aware that it had been torn. He told police that he had continued to sleep in Miss A's bed for the following week and she had never mentioned a torn condom. Edited October 23, 2016 by bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted October 23, 2016 #69 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Here's the real problem as I see it: Our government (here in the USA) is supposed to function via the rule of law, as stated in The United States Constitution. When there are government emails that demonstrate that government officials have violated the very laws they swore to uphold it becomes a very 'big deal'. Every citizen has the right to know about this type of thing before casting their vote for any government official. I'm not saying that I agree with hacking, but I do support a level of transparency that allows for people to know if their elected officials are actually respecting the laws of the land. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted October 23, 2016 #70 Share Posted October 23, 2016 58 minutes ago, bee said: you mean serious charges, for example like whether he allegedly deliberately ripped a condom (or not) --- when it is the accusers word against his --- and nothing more - sounds more like twaddle to me - Sweden has expansive rape laws. A few might appear like twaddle to some, but they are what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted October 23, 2016 #71 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) We really have to apply the same criteria to all. This morning I saw a video of Joe Biden saying he wished he could take Donald Trump 'out behind the gym' and beat him up 'like it was back in school'. Seriously? So where's the media out cry over this call for violence? Frankly, which ever party gets elected the American public needs to hold them accountable and stop making excuses for certain folks all the while condemning others for similar offenses. Edited October 23, 2016 by Lilly 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 23, 2016 #72 Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 hour ago, bee said: . bolded --- indeed it does - that the law is an a$$ and can't be trusted in highly charged political cases like the one being discussed - and US allies will more or less do what they are told - woe betide them if they don't - they might end up at the back of the queue a day in court then a life time behind bars doesn't sound like a very attractive prospect to me -- Can you honestly say, Steve, that if you were in Assange's shoes right now you would trust the courts.. moral conviction or not ...? . The law can indeed be an ass, but if we are saying the law courts and subsequent trial by jury cannot be trusted then what kind of system are we living under? To me Assange is no special case, and the fact he's not willing to face the music shows he doesn't believe in his own case or defence and is hiding behind the convenient excuse of he'll be treated differently to any other citizen and wont have a fair trial which fits nicely with anti-government conspiracies etc... The fact the British supreme court ruled he should be extradited to Sweden to face questioning over the allegations of sexual charges. - the fact he wont go to Sweden to face the music because he thinks he'll be extradited to the USA from there. Didn't he think he would be extradited from the UK to America? the fact he's broken his UK bail conditions by running to the Ecuadorian embassy tells us he's a fugitive of justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted October 23, 2016 #73 Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 hours ago, bee said: . you mean serious charges, for example like whether he allegedly deliberately ripped a condom (or not) --- when it is the accusers word against his --- and nothing more - sounds more like twaddle to me - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden Quite frankly Bee - I find it rather difficult to understand why any woman would want to sleep with the man. I have always found him to be rather pale and insipid. No sex appeal what so ever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashotep Posted October 23, 2016 Author #74 Share Posted October 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Astra. said: Quite frankly Bee - I find it rather difficult to understand why any woman would want to sleep with the man. I have always found him to be rather pale and insipid. No sex appeal what so ever If you said something like this because someone was too dark you would be called racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra. Posted October 23, 2016 #75 Share Posted October 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, Ashotep said: If you said something like this because someone was too dark you would be called racist. Hmm! maybe....but it has nothing to do with being racist. The man is simply unappealing in more ways than one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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