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Baz Dane

Now that Trump has won...

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DieChecker
7 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

A cliche is a cliche for a reason.  Just because something is sometimes used as a fallacy doesn't meant it is always a fallacy (such thought is a fallacy in and of itself).

What makes something a fallacy isn't its use, but rather how it is used.  When a pattern emerges, pointing out the pattern is hardly a fallacy.

So, can you see a pattern here?

I saw an unsupported statement that was trying to scare people. That is the vary definition of the Slippery Slope Fallacy. 

Unless you'd like to post evidence on why the slippery slope continues?? What precautions do you believe will lead down the slope? "ammo up"?? 

Perhaps you mean the slope that Thor is on? Because otherwise, are you not implying the whole world is sliding due to Thor's opinion? He's a bit smart, but i don't think the way Thor goes, so goes the world.

Edited by DieChecker

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aquatus1
19 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I saw an unsupported statement that was trying to scare people. That is the vary definition of the Slippery Slope Fallacy. 

No, it isn't.  That's the definition of fearmongering.  Don't conflate the two.

A slippery slope is (according to your link): "...a consequentialist logical device in which a party asserts that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant (usually negative) effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom."

It can be a fallacy, when used incorrectly, but it is not necessarily so, and indeed, prediction or speculation of future events is one of the most common actions one does in discussion.

Quote

Unless you'd like to post evidence on why the slippery slope continues??

I suppose that answers my question on whether you see a pattern or not.

We see, continuous dismissal of opposition opinion ("We won.  You lost.  Get over it").  Following it, we get not just dismissal, but actual attacks on the credibility and validity of  the opposite viewpoint ("They are just whining", "sore losers", "buttercups", "twinkletoes").  Now we get to the de-humanization stage, where we begin to cut off the other side from what we consider to be "us" at even a basic level (such as questioning whether people who disagree with us are even American).

Last time that happened, we had concentration camps in the U.S.  Guess what is being proposed as a precedent for what we could be doing with Muslims: concentration camps.  Trump was asked by George Stephanopoulos (or however you spell that name) specifically about whether he would implement Muslim concentration camps, and instead of the decisive "Hell no" one would expect, Trump danced around the issue and never answered it (which, to be fair, is in keeping with his MO).

That is indeed a pattern.  That is indeed what is referred to as a slippery slope.

Quote

What precautions do you believe will lead down the slope? "ammo up"??

The way to combat a slippery slope is by fighting every step of the way.  If you wait to see what happens, the slide will pick up momentum, and you will not be able to fight back effectively.  You know the old adage ("First they came for the Jews, then they came for etc, etc, then they came for me"?  That's exactly what it is talking about.

Quote

Perhaps you mean the slope that Thor is on? Because otherwise, are you not implying the whole world is sliding due to Thor's opinion? He's a bit smart, but i don't think the way Thor goes, so goes the world.

No, Diechecker.  Thor is just a cog in the machine, like all of us.

Edited by aquatus1
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and then
3 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

And the slide down the slope continues...

Yes indeedy, and what's at the bottom isn't going to be nice.  It doesn't take a Ph.D. to assess where the trend is heading when two groups of people refuse to compromise to the extent they each demand.  

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Paranormal Panther
21 hours ago, -ZZ- said:

I think we all have posted things late at night that look somewhat different the next day. :tu:

You and I are of a different generation and I've had more time to become bitter.

Politics cause no bitterness in me. I get all my bitterness from real life. ;)

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Paranormal Panther
9 hours ago, aztek said:

lol, yea i did miss it, but i'm glad i missed it, rather them you mean it.

It's how some progressives sound to me. I provided a dose of their own medicine to them.

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Baz Dane
11 hours ago, Lilly said:

People do tend to overlook the fact that Mrs Clinton is really not all that Liberal when it comes to international relations...she's very Hawkish actually. Despite the claims that 'Trump is dangerous' there's far more evidence to indicate that Clinton would have been much more likely to embroil us in 'regime changes' and out right war.

Absolutely :tu: 

I could go off on an article-sized post about how Hillary is actually a "neocon" when it comes to foreign policy, but I won't. Anyone actually smart enough to study a bit and not just rely on MSM reporting for all their information, will know and understand this, while some others, who don't actually take the time to study, will just live in denial regardless. :yes:

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Paranormal Panther
20 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

You people are weird -- you would think after I just showed how attaching labels is propaganda, that you would find some other tactic, but you don't even do that.

I quote this for reasons that I will keep to myself. It's safe to say that you know what they are. :D

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skliss
On 11/23/2016 at 9:16 PM, Glockornothing said:

If we change their world as much as was promised by Trump, they will freak out worse than him beating Killary.  I foresee either they except the change (not likely), Trump backpedals (a possibility), or all hell will break loose and there will be a time period of chaos ( most likely) where its American against American, ideology vs ideology, left vs right, whatever the circumstance it will probably be violent.  Just being prepared is the only advice I can give, hopefully it turns out to be a totally different outcome that every American can live happily with. 

I honestly think that for the non-MSM people, if what Trump does results in them having more money in their pockets at the end of the month, the fervor will die to a mild grumble.

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seax

This is the hippocracy of the left, if you haven't seen this its' worth the time.

 

This is utterly ridiculous and this man is an idiot...

 

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ChrLzs

'Hippocracy'... he's a doctor, then? :)

I love the 'debating' style where you find a loony, and then say this is what (insert despised group) are all like.  The media is good at finding the loonies, and then you can pretty much say it's any group you don't like...  Fits in well with the new age of the Internet - anyone who doesn't do what you do has to be hated, it seems..

 

 

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DieChecker
12 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

No, it isn't.  That's the definition of fearmongering.  Don't conflate the two.

A slippery slope is (according to your link): "...a consequentialist logical device in which a party asserts that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant (usually negative) effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom."

You must have missed the part in my previous post where it can be used for fearmongering? Which is what I believe you intended your post to be, since it only said " And the slide down the slope continues... ". Which I took to scare people, and not just as commentary. 

Quote

It can be a fallacy, when used incorrectly, but it is not necessarily so, and indeed, prediction or speculation of future events is one of the most common actions one does in discussion.

Yes, I'm aware of that. Did you use it correctly? I don't think you did, but that is just my opinion. Stating what you did with evidence would be using it correctly, again, in my opinion.

Quote

I suppose that answers my question on whether you see a pattern or not.

We see, continuous dismissal of opposition opinion ("We won.  You lost.  Get over it").  Following it, we get not just dismissal, but actual attacks on the credibility and validity of  the opposite viewpoint ("They are just whining", "sore losers", "buttercups", "twinkletoes").  Now we get to the de-humanization stage, where we begin to cut off the other side from what we consider to be "us" at even a basic level (such as questioning whether people who disagree with us are even American).

Last time that happened, we had concentration camps in the U.S.  Guess what is being proposed as a precedent for what we could be doing with Muslims: concentration camps.  Trump was asked by George Stephanopoulos (or however you spell that name) specifically about whether he would implement Muslim concentration camps, and instead of the decisive "Hell no" one would expect, Trump danced around the issue and never answered it (which, to be fair, is in keeping with his MO).

That is indeed a pattern.  That is indeed what is referred to as a slippery slope.

If that is what you mean by the slope, then hasn't that been going on in the US since George Washington? 

I see the pattern, I just don't think it necessarily is leading straight down, but rather side to side, figuratively speaking. Perhaps we can bring this up again when people start being put into Camps? I've only seen Trump, so far, throw out crazy end suggestions and then move toward the center, not stick to "crazy" and demand to implement "crazy". Do you have proof he is going to build Muslim camps? Do you have proof he even is setting up a real Ban? All you seem to have is him refusing to comment directly.

Quote

The way to combat a slippery slope is by fighting every step of the way.  If you wait to see what happens, the slide will pick up momentum, and you will not be able to fight back effectively.  You know the old adage ("First they came for the Jews, then they came for etc, etc, then they came for me"?  That's exactly what it is talking about.

Agree with this at least.... :tu:

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Likely Guy
2 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

'Hippocracy'... he's a doctor, then? :)

I love the 'debating' style where you find a loony, and then say this is what (insert despised group) are all like.  The media is good at finding the loonies, and then you can pretty much say it's any group you don't like...  Fits in well with the new age of the Internet - anyone who doesn't do what you do has to be hated, it seems..

 

 

He forgot to add 'typical', thereby missing the broad brush.

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Frank Merton

I noted an extensive article in this morning's Washington Post about how the Russian propaganda machine was extremely (an adverb I try to avoid but which fits here) active in spreading false stories about Clinton during the campaign, and how it seems Trump's people, at a minimum, did nothing to discourage it.

One wonders why.  Some possibilities, not to be taken too seriously, are that Putin sees in Trump an incompetent he can manipulate or maybe a fellow kleptrocrat he can cooperate with in mutual self-enrichment (what is it -- Trump will enter the White House with millions and leave with billions upon billions)?

It is ironic, at the least, that those who paint themselves most patriotic among Americans here buy this propaganda and push it along.  Some of it is no doubt their naiveté, but I have to say I wonder about those who also regularly post misinformation about how the rebels in Syria are all ISIS and the Russians are not engaging in atrocities -- and similar stuff about Ukraine.

We need to be aware that Putin is corrupt and ignores international standards and is a bald-faced liar.  I tend to think about the same regarding Trump, but am going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least a few months.

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DieChecker

I'd agree that Russia appears to have not liked Hillary. Hillary was advocating a No Fly Zone in Syria, which would have brought the USA into direct conflict with the Russians who are supporting the Syrian government. The Russians, as far as I know, were invited to Syria, can we say the same? Yet Hillary would have moved forward unilaterally and possibly started WW3. It is no wonder that the Russians supported Trump, who was moderate to their actions and government, rather then the hawkish Hillary.

 

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Lilly
6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I'd agree that Russia appears to have not liked Hillary. Hillary was advocating a No Fly Zone in Syria, which would have brought the USA into direct conflict with the Russians who are supporting the Syrian government. The Russians, as far as I know, were invited to Syria, can we say the same? Yet Hillary would have moved forward unilaterally and possibly started WW3. It is no wonder that the Russians supported Trump, who was moderate to their actions and government, rather then the hawkish Hillary.

 

I basically agree with this assessment. Mrs Clinton might have been running as a Liberal but when it came to how she would have dealt with certain situations she was very Hawkish. Frankly, she's much scarier than Trump in this regard.

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Paranormal Panther
17 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I'd agree that Russia appears to have not liked Hillary. Hillary was advocating a No Fly Zone in Syria, which would have brought the USA into direct conflict with the Russians who are supporting the Syrian government. The Russians, as far as I know, were invited to Syria, can we say the same? Yet Hillary would have moved forward unilaterally and possibly started WW3. It is no wonder that the Russians supported Trump, who was moderate to their actions and government, rather then the hawkish Hillary.

 

The leftists now fear and hate the Russians, and some of them mocked our concerns about European communism during the Cold War. Some of these same Putin-hating leftists use the same McCarthyite tactics that they once deplored. The hypocrisy is off the charts! It's all about the team.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar sponsor terrorism, and they give support to Clinton. Just think what would happen if Russia attacked those two countries to change their regimes, even if neither country threatened them. They rightly would be condemned for their actions. Hopefully, Trump will have few dangerous neocon hypocrites in his cabinet.

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Merc14
3 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

The leftists now fear and hate the Russians, and some of them mocked our concerns about European communism during the Cold War. Some of these same Putin-hating leftists use the same McCarthyite tactics that they once deplored. The hypocrisy is off the charts! It's all about the team.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar sponsor terrorism, and they give support to Clinton. Just think what would happen if Russia attacked those two countries to change their regimes, even if neither country threatened them. They rightly would be condemned for their actions. Hopefully, Trump will have few dangerous neocon hypocrites in his cabinet.

I's a puzzle but since when have they made any sense.

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danielost
On 11/21/2016 at 5:21 PM, Michelle said:

If the media could keep it's mouth shut and mind their own business at times, Trump could probably go home more often with very little disruption at all.

We didn't find out Obama was on vacation in St. Thomas, the same time we were, until my husband accidentally jogged past the driveway to the property where Obama was staying. The SS stopped him and asked what he was doing there.

looks like someone in that admin. was doing their job.

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danielost

for all the war cries over trump.  in this country most wars are started by democrats and ended by republicans.  note i said most not all.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
5 minutes ago, danielost said:

for all the war cries over trump.  in this country most wars are started by democrats and ended by republicans.  note i said most not all.

Look at the civil war, that was started by Democrats 

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danielost
1 minute ago, Lord Fedorable said:

Look at the civil war, that was started by Democrats 

those same slave owning democrats that the blacks vote for today, no matter what.

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seax
On 11/24/2016 at 10:23 PM, ChrLzs said:

'Hippocracy'... he's a doctor, then? :)

I love the 'debating' style where you find a loony, and then say this is what (insert despised group) are all like.  The media is good at finding the loonies, and then you can pretty much say it's any group you don't like...  Fits in well with the new age of the Internet - anyone who doesn't do what you do has to be hated, it seems..

 

 

I don't know what  his pedigree is....but he's an idiot.  No one has used the word 'hate' but you.  My method is better as I'm not running up and down the streets destroying people's property and endangering lives.  Seems there are quite a few of these type throwing temper tandrums now and they are all the enlightened ones that support the ideals of the left.  I don't blame you...I would be ashamed of it and deny it too.

seaxB) 

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Yamato
On 11/24/2016 at 7:01 PM, Paranormal Panther said:

Politics cause no bitterness in me. I get all my bitterness from real life. ;)

So politics is your escape then.  I didn't realize I was stressing you out by telling you it didn't matter all those times.

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Glockornothing
21 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

I noted an extensive article in this morning's Washington Post about how the Russian propaganda machine was extremely (an adverb I try to avoid but which fits here) active in spreading false stories about Clinton during the campaign, and how it seems Trump's people, at a minimum, did nothing to discourage it.

One wonders why.  Some possibilities, not to be taken too seriously, are that Putin sees in Trump an incompetent he can manipulate or maybe a fellow kleptrocrat he can cooperate with in mutual self-enrichment (what is it -- Trump will enter the White House with millions and leave with billions upon billions)?

It is ironic, at the least, that those who paint themselves most patriotic among Americans here buy this propaganda and push it along.  Some of it is no doubt their naiveté, but I have to say I wonder about those who also regularly post misinformation about how the rebels in Syria are all ISIS and the Russians are not engaging in atrocities -- and similar stuff about Ukraine.

We need to be aware that Putin is corrupt and ignores international standards and is a bald-faced liar.  I tend to think about the same regarding Trump, but am going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least a few months.

Like when Hillary entered the White House as SOS with millions and left with billions in her foundation, imagine if she would have became president the favors she would have sold to get those billions to turn into trillions for her foundation.

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Yamato
40 minutes ago, Lord Fedorable said:

Look at the civil war, that was started by Democrats 

 

38 minutes ago, danielost said:

those same slave owning democrats that the blacks vote for today, no matter what.

 

Terrible people, Democrats.  

Who started the Vietnam War?    Democrats.   Lest we not forget the Congress punted on 4th and 12 on that one too.   Nixon of course escalated the war and we saw where that got us.   Republicans were generally the peace party until the neocons came over... from guess where?  The Democrats.  

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