The Wall

[aztek]

1 hour ago, aquatus1 said:

In the same way that some do not understand the fear of a ban intended for Muslim terrorists becoming a ban on all Muslims, so do they not understand how a wall intended for illegal immigrants can so easily become a wall for all immigrants.

lol, bull, legal immigrants come thru legal doors, walls do not stop them. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

I can't tell you  how many times have I heard it said  before from people that they would do anything, even sell their own bodies to feed their children & keep a roof over them so that false narrative that Americans fear work is not true.  Not everyone mows their own grass because they can't or because they don't want to but certainly there will always be an American citizen that is willing to work...

I liked your post, because yes that is true, there are those who not only will do that, but actually have that situation. The thing that gets me, and is what I feel is the 'atmostphere' here, is how these jobs are looked down upon. Kind of a way of being discouraged to do them. There has been a poster here who looked down upon my job. I feel, no wonder various jobs, which are just as honorable and to be considered just as necessary, are being taken by those who probably do not feel the initial outlook, that I have seen so many times through out the years. 

Just makes me wonder, about those who have looked upon such jobs, what happens when you can't get someone in those jobs to help you, when you want it? That's what I am talking about. Maybe we need to do a whole lot more here, like encouraging and being proud of the various jobs and careers in this country. Teachers, I have noticed from some groups, seem to be little them, and they are not payed enough. Yet, they are shaping our children's future for our future. 

It's a good thing I am proud of what I do. I have received numerous compliments and thanks for what I do. And on top of that, being a military wife, and a mother, there hasn't been a lot open for me because of the couple of times we have had to move and the lack of child care at the time. 

Believe me, I know there are those who want and actually do that. They are still struggling, and I still see them as being denigrated still. My point is how I see so much denigration to those who do hold such jobs, but complain when so many don't want to do them for fear of being shamed for having such jobs. 

[ellapenella]

50 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I liked your post, because yes that is true, there are those who not only will do that, but actually have that situation. The thing that gets me, and is what I feel is the 'atmostphere' here, is how these jobs are looked down upon. Kind of a way of being discouraged to do them. There has been a poster here who looked down upon my job. I feel, no wonder various jobs, which are just as honorable and to be considered just as necessary, are being taken by those who probably do not feel the initial outlook, that I have seen so many times through out the years. 

Just makes me wonder, about those who have looked upon such jobs, what happens when you can't get someone in those jobs to help you, when you want it? That's what I am talking about. Maybe we need to do a whole lot more here, like encouraging and being proud of the various jobs and careers in this country. Teachers, I have noticed from some groups, seem to be little them, and they are not payed enough. Yet, they are shaping our children's future for our future. 

It's a good thing I am proud of what I do. I have received numerous compliments and thanks for what I do. And on top of that, being a military wife, and a mother, there hasn't been a lot open for me because of the couple of times we have had to move and the lack of child care at the time. 

Believe me, I know there are those who want and actually do that. They are still struggling, and I still see them as being denigrated still. My point is how I see so much denigration to those who do hold such jobs, but complain when so many don't want to do them for fear of being shamed for having such jobs. 

We were always taught to be proud of having a job no matter if it was flipping burgers washing windows cleaning for people whatever as long as it was legal & you earned an honest dollar. 

In this election  I voted for a judge  because I went through the history of them all & he started out as a janitor in a courthouse from there he later became a police officer....but he pushed a mop,he cleaned the toilets, nothing wrong with that, it's a job, it pays the bills.

 

[aquatus1]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

lol, bull, legal immigrants come thru legal doors, walls do not stop them. 

"lol" may be the modern versions of "BWAhahahaha!", but it doesn't gain much in terms of discussion.

If you like, you can try understanding my post before running your pre-programed scripts, but until then, there is little point to responding to a counter that doesn't actually address the post it quotes.

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

In the same way that some do not understand the fear of a ban intended for Muslim terrorists becoming a ban on all Muslims, so do they not understand how a wall intended for illegal immigrants can so easily become a wall for all immigrants.

Basically, then, the fear of Trump is based on much the same argument as the fear of Putin; that he (whether Trump or Putin) is bound to do this (invade Poland or impose a ban on all immigration) because that's what dictators always do. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker
of, not or

[aquatus1]

No, no, only one side is afraid enough of imaginary things to take legal action on things that might happen despite a statistically poor chance of it occurring, like perverts in bathrooms or possible wars or refugee terrorists.  The other side is mostly concerned about things that actually have happened, such as a Muslim ban from a guy who actively campaigned on a Muslim ban and got advice on making it a legal Muslim ban, since an actual Muslim ban would be otherwise illegal.  The other side is also worried about other things that have actually happened, such as the white supremacist who tricked his way into the National Security Council, who ignores Trump's demands regarding looking good for the public, and who basically shrugged off the furious Trump's rant about him tricking the President like Jafar apologizing after beheading Aladdin, then sending the POTUS on vacation to chill out.

Then, of course, we have the whole thing about Trump claiming to be on the side of the LGBT crowd, and then flooding the swamp with people who have actual agenda's to remove the rights of the LGBT, as in, they have actual histories of putting forth legislation to curtail the rights of people.

It's a "fear of fear itself" vs a "No, physical danger is an actual regular part of our lives" thing.

Edited February 9, 2017 by aquatus1

[Stubbly_Dooright]

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

We were always taught to be proud of having a job no matter if it was flipping burgers washing windows cleaning for people whatever as long as it was legal & you earned an honest dollar. 

Well, I think it was good you were taught that. I grew up in a family, though they insisted on completing a college education, ( in which I have ) they understand, that situations happens. They have always been proud of all of us. ( my dad even made sure to tell my mom, excitingly, that I got the job I have now. ) 

Here's the thing. In the area I grew up, it was installed in the students, get the grades, ( nothing wrong with that ), get the high paying job ( nothing wrong with that, but it was always in a tone that that's all you should get or you're nothing ) and anything else, including those jobs that everyone should be proud of, the ones you mentioned, the ones that I have done as well, were not what you should be proud of. Frankly, I think some parts of this country, some parts of those from this thinking, shot themselves in the feet, slowly and surely, because of this. I grew up in an area of 'look at me' 'look what I got', and the 'ones who dies with the most toys wins' attitude. Granted, living in various areas, (as a military wife) points of views vary. But I still saw it here and there. Like I said, some time ago someone here put my job down. And that's what I find a problem here, by observation and my opinion. I feel like, because of what I have seen in other areas, I have  had to push that thinking out, but when I observe countless times over the years, it makes me wonder where the hell our work ethic will come from and what will happen with it. 

Quote

In this election  I voted for a judge  because I went through the history of them all & he started out as a janitor in a courthouse from there he later became a police officer....but he pushed a mop,he cleaned the toilets, nothing wrong with that, it's a job, it pays the bills.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with that. But I have grown up, worked with, and been in company with some who did find something wrong with that. And now, I feel, I'm seeing the backlash. Part of me feels like we all need to open our eyes. But then again, that could just be me. *shrugs*

Added note: Fortunately, I also have grown up in a family who believe in hard work, worked some individuals who taught integrity and pride in what you do, and been the company of those who feel the honesty of working and doing what you do now. So, I wasn't always exposed to the negative. 

[pallidin]

I think the US/Mexico border wall should be built.

That much I do agree with Trump.

[Sweetpumper]

Just now, pallidin said:

I think the US/Mexico border wall should be built.

That much I do agree with Trump.

Not to worry, it's in the works.

[ellapenella]

5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, I think it was good you were taught that. I grew up in a family, though they insisted on completing a college education, ( in which I have ) they understand, that situations happens. They have always been proud of all of us. ( my dad even made sure to tell my mom, excitingly, that I got the job I have now. ) 

Here's the thing. In the area I grew up, it was installed in the students, get the grades, ( nothing wrong with that ), get the high paying job ( nothing wrong with that, but it was always in a tone that that's all you should get or you're nothing ) and anything else, including those jobs that everyone should be proud of, the ones you mentioned, the ones that I have done as well, were not what you should be proud of. Frankly, I think some parts of this country, some parts of those from this thinking, shot themselves in the feet, slowly and surely, because of this. I grew up in an area of 'look at me' 'look what I got', and the 'ones who dies with the most toys wins' attitude. Granted, living in various areas, (as a military wife) points of views vary. But I still saw it here and there. Like I said, some time ago someone here put my job down. And that's what I find a problem here, by observation and my opinion. I feel like, because of what I have seen in other areas, I have  had to push that thinking out, but when I observe countless times over the years, it makes me wonder where the hell our work ethic will come from and what will happen with it. 

Yes, there is nothing wrong with that. But I have grown up, worked with, and been in company with some who did find something wrong with that. And now, I feel, I'm seeing the backlash. Part of me feels like we all need to open our eyes. But then again, that could just be me. *shrugs*

Added note: Fortunately, I also have grown up in a family who believe in hard work, worked some individuals who taught integrity and pride in what you do, and been the company of those who feel the honesty of working and doing what you do now. So, I wasn't always exposed to the negative. 

When I was in college there was this Dean that taught/lead one of my classes and he really emphasized to us that it's not all about the money in life but do what makes you most happy . He shared with us his mistakes he made like when he went for the highest paying job and for years he hated it, wasn't worth it to him because his heart wasn't in it. 

[ellapenella]

11 minutes ago, Sweetpumper said:

Not to worry, it's in the works.

I knew he was serious about it. I really like this President. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

8 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

When I was in college there was this Dean that taught/lead one of my classes and he really emphasized to us that it's not all about the money in life but do what makes you most happy . He shared with us his mistakes he made like when he went for the highest paying job and for years he hated it, wasn't worth it to him because his heart wasn't in it. 

That's good. And I had a counselor in one of the collages who emphasized that it's ok to switch careers, jobs, and always starting over no matter the job or career. I don't know about you, but I find these individuals very few in the various areas. We should have more of them. 

[+DieChecker]

20 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

I can't tell you  how many times have I heard it said  before from people that they would do anything, even sell their own bodies to feed their children & keep a roof over them so that false narrative that Americans fear work is not true.  Not everyone mows their own grass because they can't or because they don't want to but certainly there will always be an American citizen that is willing to work...

I've said before there is no jobs that an American will not do, as long as we allow for Supply and Demand. If you have a demand for fruit pickers, then you'll have to pay what the workers (Suppliers) are going to demand. So, the argument will then be that we'll have to buy more expensive fruit. OK, I'll agree to that then. I think it is BS though. Because if the fruit is too expensive, they'll grow something else that can be tractor harvested and those fruit will be grown in Ecuador or somewhere else. 

[+DieChecker]

16 hours ago, Sweetpumper said:

Not to worry, it's in the works.

Someone was telling me, "GOOD GOD, it is supposed to cost $20 BILLION for this wall!!!!" And I was like, "OK, that sounds good to me.". And they stood there blinking at me. Because 20 billion in today's world, spent over 4 years isn't actually that much. It is like adding a couple new aircraft carriers.

The new Aircraft Carrier class, Gerald Ford, comes out this year, at a cost of 10.5 Billion each. How much ruckus over the cost of that has anyone heard? None that I can remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford-class_aircraft_carrier

Quote

Cost:

Program cost: $36.30 billion[1](FY15) Unit cost: $10.44B[1](FY15)

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by DieChecker

[Clarakore]

16 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

When I was in college there was this Dean that taught/lead one of my classes and he really emphasized to us that it's not all about the money in life but do what makes you most happy . He shared with us his mistakes he made like when he went for the highest paying job and for years he hated it, wasn't worth it to him because his heart wasn't in it. 

The actual dean taught the class?

[Jarocal]

9 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I've said before there is no jobs that an American will not do, as long as we allow for Supply and Demand. If you have a demand for fruit pickers, then you'll have to pay what the workers (Suppliers) are going to demand. So, the argument will then be that we'll have to buy more expensive fruit. OK, I'll agree to that then. I think it is BS though. Because if the fruit is too expensive, they'll grow something else that can be tractor harvested and those fruit will be grown in Ecuador or somewhere else. 

Or we'll convert orchard methods here to allow for mechanical harvesting (it already happens). Sorting will still be a low wage job but it can also be partly mechanised and those positions filled.

 It's funny how we as a society really push for "living wage" jobs at say a Walmart or Mcdonald's. Places where the public has a lot of intetaction yet we have no issue taking advantage of immigrant workers who keep our lawns mowed or pick our food. 

 

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Jarocal said:

yet we have no issue taking advantage of immigrant workers who keep our lawns mowed or pick our food. 

Exactly. It is humanitarian to allow exploitation???

[Jarocal]

21 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Exactly. It is humanitarian to allow exploitation???

When that exploitation is outsourced to other countries so we can have cheap crap apparently so. Or if they are illegal immigrants who though living in poverty by American standards often are in a better situation that they left.

[Gromdor]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 0:21 PM, aztek said:

it had graffiti all over it, not much else you can do to a concrete wall, solar panel wall however, a lot to vandalize, i can see them shooting if not real guns, than bb\pellet, or slingshots at the panels.  

Eh, you have a point. 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

And the trouble is of course, the solar panels, to get the most effect, would have to be on the south, i.e. the Mexican, side. Imagine the potential for energy blackmail there!

[Uncle Sam]

21 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

And the trouble is of course, the solar panels, to get the most effect, would have to be on the south, i.e. the Mexican, side. Imagine the potential for energy blackmail there!

You are thinking the flat solar panels... you really should check up on the latest tech.

 

These are cone solar panels that spin, gathering sunlight from all angles while having a protective casing over them. Just make sure they are bullet proof while able to allow light through, boom, you got your solar panels for the border that can't be destroyed so easily by vandals from both sides. The wall could double as a way to stem the tide of illegal immigrants while harnessing green energy for both the wall and towns near the border. That is what I call a win/win situation to be honest, it would definitely make reduce our carbon footprint while reducing illegal immigration load. Maybe place some sensitive ground radars that will detect any digging under the border wall, so we can pinpoint and collapse the tunnels that the human traffickers use. Then we can deploy some coast guards to patrol the waters where the border wall can't go, maybe we can make new inventions along the way to help aid the pursuit and capture of illegal immigrants. As for air... that one will be tricky, since it will involve planes. Basically we can track them where they go, then apprehend them when they land?

Edited February 10, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[ellapenella]

21 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

That's good. And I had a counselor in one of the collages who emphasized that it's ok to switch careers, jobs, and always starting over no matter the job or career. I don't know about you, but I find these individuals very few in the various areas. We should have more of them. 

Most people go through like 26 jobs in their lifetime the dean told me. Seems like nearly everyone is unhappy on their jobs these days. I hope that with the wall being built on the border , border control will be more safe for our officers. Maybe more individuals will seek employment there?

[ellapenella]

9 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

You are thinking the flat solar panels... you really should check up on the latest tech.

 

These are cone solar panels that spin, gathering sunlight from all angles while having a protective casing over them. Just make sure they are bullet proof while able to allow light through, boom, you got your solar panels for the border that can't be destroyed so easily by vandals from both sides. Not only could they power the border wall, they could power the towns that huge the border and then some.

how much are they & how many would be needed? 

eta

it would be even more beautiful of a wall

Edited February 10, 2017 by Ellapennella

[Uncle Sam]

5 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

how much are they & how many would be needed? 

Apparently they will cost like 20 dollars per cone... it is currently in testing phase to be honest. Might have to use flat solar panels at first, which costs 100 dollars till these are massed produced and distributed, then replace them couple of years later down the line. Not sure how long it will take, since it goes to jump through a lot of hurdles to be able to mass produce and sell.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[ellapenella]

Just now, Uncle Sam said:

Apparently they will cost like 20 dollars per cone... it is currently in testing phase to be honest. Might have to use flat solar panels at first, which costs 100 dollars till these are massed produced and distributed.

The cones would look great on top of our wall.  And the price is great.