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Sweetpumper

The Wall

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Agent0range

Here's what confuses me about the wall, and maybe someone can provide some insight.  The Rio Grande River provides a 1,200 mile natural border between Texas and Mexico.  Much of that land is owned by cattle ranchers and farmers that use the river for their livestock and crops.  So...where does the wall go?  In the middle of the river?  

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Astra.
5 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Contractors will be building the Great & beautiful wall.  Securing our Borders is top priority and getting criminals out of our country that don't belong here as well.

Thanks Ella - I understand all that. But it didn't really answer some of the basic fundamental questions I had asked.. of what may be involved with such a massive task. And what if Mexico refuses to pay for it ? :huh:

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Ellapennella
18 minutes ago, Astra. said:

Thanks Ella - I understand all that. But it didn't really answer some of the basic fundamental questions I had asked.. of what may be involved with such a massive task. And what if Mexico refuses to pay for it ? :huh:

Chair of House Committee Drops Trump Wall Bombshell… It’s Happening

 
I don't know but,  I'm hearing that Mexico also wants the wall built. I think this will be good for both of our countries.

 

Edited by Ellapennella
typo
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Ellapennella

 I've been reading things like The  Mexican people are standing up to criminal  thugs more than ever before...

 

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South Alabam

You'd think the military could use aircraft and helicopters that had the capabilities, to patrol along the border as part of their training exercises.  I'm talking FLIR, thermal imaging, night vision etc.. It would give the military actual training, and direct border patrol to incoming illegals, or potential terrorist infiltration.

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Ellapennella
21 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

You'd think the military could use aircraft and helicopters that had the capabilities, to patrol along the border as part of their training exercises.  I'm talking FLIR, thermal imaging, night vision etc.. It would give the military actual training, and direct border patrol to incoming illegals, or potential terrorist infiltration.

That's a great idea , that would be perfect. with that you get protection & training cost is down and yet things are getting done...I like that a lot..

 

ETA - instead of wasting money the extras can go towards what the Military and Country require.

Edited by Ellapennella
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Dumbledore the Awesome
9 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Here's what confuses me about the wall, and maybe someone can provide some insight.  The Rio Grande River provides a 1,200 mile natural border between Texas and Mexico.  Much of that land is owned by cattle ranchers and farmers that use the river for their livestock and crops.  So...where does the wall go?  In the middle of the river?  

That's probably one of those situations where there'd be no need for a Wall, or at least just a fence would probably suffice.

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Dumbledore the Awesome
7 hours ago, South Alabam said:

You'd think the military could use aircraft and helicopters that had the capabilities, to patrol along the border as part of their training exercises.  I'm talking FLIR, thermal imaging, night vision etc.. It would give the military actual training, and direct border patrol to incoming illegals, or potential terrorist infiltration.

I'm sure they could, but it'd be a pretty big commitment, requiring a 24 hour round the clock deployment, and it'd no doubt cost a packet. Besides, that's what the Border Patrol and Law Enforcement use already, isn't it. 

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Yamato

The actual border wall has been getting built for many years now.  What's going to happen is that Donald Trump is going to put a few tweaks and finishes on it and then take credit for the whole wall as if he built it. 

Since this politically correct wedge issue propagandized by right wing statists isn't going to solve or accomplish anything, it'll either be a waste of money if it's spent or not a waste of money if it isn't.

Show me a 30 foot wall and I'll show you a 31 foot ladder.

 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
1 minute ago, Yamato said:

What's going to happen is that Donald Trump is going to put a few tweaks and finishes on it and then take credit for the whole wall as if he built it. 

He'll probably put some nice gold decoration on it. He's fond of gold decoration. It lends a tasteful touch to anything. 

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Yamato
On 11/13/2016 at 7:52 PM, Lilly said:

There's a big difference regarding the Berlin wall and the Mexico border wall. The Berlin wall illegally kept people from leaving. The Mexico border wall will keep people from entering illegally.  

The Berlin Wall didn't "illegally" keep anything.  It was built and kept according to laws at the time.  Those were laws that kept people out of the other side, same as this!  You're just referring to the political intentions of the wall(s), not the actual effects they had or even necessarily the policies that were created around them which changed through time.  The walls don't care and they don't discriminate.  A Wall is just a dumb pile of rock, it doesn't decipher legal from illegal, much less right from wrong, much less the race or nationality of the person on either side of it or what papers they may or may not have.  The Wall isn't just going to keep people from entering illegally, that's just the one thing we're politically isolating out in order to agree with it.   What matters here is how we control the security of the border.  There too, the Berlin Wall itself isn't what kept so many people on the other side, it was how the government host dealt with those people who would have otherwise went under it, over it or through it.

You're trusting the same government that bombs Libya and Syria and arms Al Qaeda and ISIS, the same government that apparently let 11 million illegal aliens over the border already and is now taking in thousands of Syrian refugees.  A chuck of concrete isn't what compensates for the government's evil stupidity or fills in for the government's failure.  Only a change in policy can do that, wall or no wall.   The Wall is more a symbol of a solution than it is an actual solution.   But if there's a metaphorical wall that can be built to protect our people from the evil stupid of our policies, I'd welcome a long one.

 

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Thanato
10 hours ago, South Alabam said:

You'd think the military could use aircraft and helicopters that had the capabilities, to patrol along the border as part of their training exercises.  I'm talking FLIR, thermal imaging, night vision etc.. It would give the military actual training, and direct border patrol to incoming illegals, or potential terrorist infiltration.

Yes but it would also technically be a violation of US Law, as it wouldn't really be a training exercise if you are directing people on the ground to a live target on a real operation.

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danielost
On 11/13/2016 at 6:46 PM, Frank Merton said:

I think of the abomination and ugly thing, and symbol of tyranny, that the Berlin Wall became.  Then I see pictures of the proposed wall and it gives me bad dreams of the dystopia sort.

the berlin wall was to keep people in.  this wall is to make people come in in the proper way.

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danielost

illegal immigrants come in get arrested, deported and return right now.  some of them kill and rob.  they should go to prison.  they all become drug mules.

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Lilly
1 hour ago, Yamato said:

 

You're trusting the same government that bombs Libya and Syria and arms Al Qaeda and ISIS, the same government that apparently let 11 million illegal aliens over the border already and is now taking in thousands of Syrian refugees.  A chuck of concrete isn't what compensates for the government's evil stupidity or fills in for the government's failure.  Only a change in policy can do that, wall or no wall.   The Wall is more a symbol of a solution than it is an actual solution.   But if there's a metaphorical wall that can be built to protect our people from the evil stupid of our policies, I'd welcome a long one.

 

You're quite mistaken...I trust very few people (none of whom are involved in government).

But this fact remains, the Berlin Wall's main purpose was to keep the population from fleeing the communist controlled side of the city. The proposed wall at the US Mexico boarder's main purpose is to keep drug runners, gang members and potential terrorists from entering the United States, Anyone who wishes to leave the United States is free to do so. In fact, there are several celebrities who promised to leave but now aren't. I wonder why? I mean seriously, if it's so damn oppressive, horrific, racist, disgusting etc. here in the US...then way aren't they leaving? Why aren't droves of folks lined up at borders and airports clamoring to leave?

And as for US immigration standards, we aren't even close to being the strictest nation in the world. Many other countries are very strict compared to the US.

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Farmer77
12 minutes ago, Lilly said:

You're quite mistaken...I trust very few people (none of whom are involved in government).

But this fact remains, the Berlin Wall's main purpose was to keep the population from fleeing the communist controlled side of the city. The proposed wall at the US Mexico boarder's main purpose is to keep drug runners, gang members and potential terrorists from entering the United States, Anyone who wishes to leave the United States is free to do so. In fact, there are several celebrities who promised to leave but now aren't. I wonder why? I mean seriously, if it's so damn oppressive, horrific, racist, disgusting etc. here in the US...then way aren't they leaving? Why aren't droves of folks lined up at borders and airports clamoring to leave?

And as for US immigration standards, we aren't even close to being the strictest nation in the world. Many other countries are very strict compared to the US.

Im on the fence about the wall (LOL) , the one thing that gives me pause is very much the same thing which puts me on the anti gun control side. Its not necessarily the government of today which is the threat, but when we give the government the instruments of tyranny we are trusting that they will never use them against us. Never is a big word. 

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Astra.
11 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

Chair of House Committee Drops Trump Wall Bombshell… It’s Happening

 
I don't know but,  I'm hearing that Mexico also wants the wall built. I think this will be good for both of our countries.

 

Thanks...

I'm not sure if you saw his recent interview on CBS 60 minutes since becoming president elect.

http://time.com/4569534/donald-trump-60-minutes-interview/

From what Iv'e gathered... he seems to have already softened his stance on at least two issues that he was extremely vocal about throughout his campaign.

The Wall might just be a fence


Trump promised to build a “big, beautiful wall” throughout his presidential campaign. But in the interview with 60 Minutes, Trump revealed he would accept a fence along the southern border, though he still plans to build a wall along parts of the divide between the U.S. and Mexico. “It could be – it could be some fencing,” he said. “But certain areas, a wall is more appropriate. I’m very good at this, it’s called construction.”

So naturally my impression of this - is that he wont be building 'a great big wall' all along the border - as he had spoken of. It sounds more like a 'patch up job' (so to speak) in places that need to be secured with what he refers to as 'the wall'.

Pursuing Hillary Clinton’s email scandal? Not right now


At rallies throughout the campaign, Trump supporters had taken to chanting “lock her up” in regards to his opponent former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. But, asked if he still plans to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the scandal over her email server, he seemed to walk it back. "I'm going to think about it" Um, I feel that I want to focus on jobs, I want to focus on healthcare, I want to focus on the border and immigration and doing a really great immigration bill,” he said.

Ok - so going after Clinton and trying to bring her to justice (as he seemed so determined to do) isn't that urgent anymore?

Look, to be fair... he deserves a chance to prove himself. I just hope that he can stay true to the other pledges he has made - as flip flopping on promises (as above) will only cause doubt and future uncertainty...not only for the US..but also for other nations.

As Iv'e said before tho...I guess time will tell. 

 

  

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Yamato
1 hour ago, Lilly said:

You're quite mistaken...I trust very few people (none of whom are involved in government).

But this fact remains, the Berlin Wall's main purpose was to keep the population from fleeing the communist controlled side of the city. The proposed wall at the US Mexico boarder's main purpose is to keep drug runners, gang members and potential terrorists from entering the United States, Anyone who wishes to leave the United States is free to do so. In fact, there are several celebrities who promised to leave but now aren't. I wonder why? I mean seriously, if it's so damn oppressive, horrific, racist, disgusting etc. here in the US...then way aren't they leaving? Why aren't droves of folks lined up at borders and airports clamoring to leave?

And as for US immigration standards, we aren't even close to being the strictest nation in the world. Many other countries are very strict compared to the US.

To my point, skip the wall and just change the policy. 

Unless construction projects that involve pouring concrete in the middle of the Rio Grande are such a great idea that we just can't resist.  :nuts:

Edited by Yamato

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Yamato said:

To my point, skip the wall and just change the policy. 

Unless construction projects that involve pouring concrete in the middle of the Rio Grande are such a great idea that we just can't resist.  :nuts:

Dude im telling you I have the perfect solution for the border, I dont know why noone listens to me:

We build a new "panama canal" along the border. It would be the most ambitious construction project in history ensuring hundreds of thousands of jobs for decades while simultaneously providing a revenue stream for America AND providing a serious deterrent at the border. 

That is outtrumping trump right there 

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rashore
4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Dude im telling you I have the perfect solution for the border, I dont know why noone listens to me:

We build a new "panama canal" along the border. It would be the most ambitious construction project in history ensuring hundreds of thousands of jobs for decades while simultaneously providing a revenue stream for America AND providing a serious deterrent at the border. 

That is outtrumping trump right there 

A new Panama canal where exactly? The border is a jagged one, and half filled with the Rio Grande. From the Rio Grande to the Pacific Ocean? Kind of can't mess with the Rio Grande itself, so wouldn't be able to do a Gulf to Ocean canal.

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Farmer77
Just now, rashore said:

A new Panama canal where exactly? The border is a jagged one, and half filled with the Rio Grande. From the Rio Grande to the Pacific Ocean? Kind of can't mess with the Rio Grande itself, so wouldn't be able to do a Gulf to Ocean canal.

Down there somewhere! IDK its really just a joke , but theoretically if you started with the rio grande as a template then use a ton of explosives from el paso west it could be done. 

Im an environmentalist who lives in and loves the desert SW though so it would be pretty heartbreaking to see something like that happen. 

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Yamato
8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Dude im telling you I have the perfect solution for the border, I dont know why noone listens to me:

We build a new "panama canal" along the border. It would be the most ambitious construction project in history ensuring hundreds of thousands of jobs for decades while simultaneously providing a revenue stream for America AND providing a serious deterrent at the border. 

That is outtrumping trump right there 

I won't listen to you on that idea because we're $20 Trillion in debt.  

As for the others, the minute after Trump steals your idea, they'll love it.  

I'm serious when I say I don't trust government, therefore I realize that it's folly to rely upon it for solutions to problems that it created in the first place.  A lack of physical barriers isn't the problem that a wall is a real solution.  The barriers are already there.   It's a political solution to a minor problem in light of the problems we have today.  But it's a solution that Donald Trump can easily understand.  Building something and putting his name on it.

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rashore
4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Down there somewhere! IDK its really just a joke , but theoretically if you started with the rio grande as a template then use a ton of explosives from el paso west it could be done. 

Im an environmentalist who lives in and loves the desert SW though so it would be pretty heartbreaking to see something like that happen. 

So a landlocked canal? I mean, it wouldn't be able to connect with the Rio Grande. I realize you are joking, but the actual physical logistics of such a thing are an interesting conundrum.

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Farmer77
Just now, rashore said:

So a landlocked canal? I mean, it wouldn't be able to connect with the Rio Grande. I realize you are joking, but the actual physical logistics of such a thing are an interesting conundrum.

Well the western portion is what would make it one of the most ambitious construction project in history , probably right up there with the three gorges dam, but with determination and TNT it could be done right? 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
3 minutes ago, rashore said:

So a landlocked canal? I mean, it wouldn't be able to connect with the Rio Grande. I realize you are joking, but the actual physical logistics of such a thing are an interesting conundrum.

Surely that's called a moat. 

 

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