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Sweetpumper

The Wall

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glorybebe

Whenever I hear about Trump building a wall I think of 

 

large_edJzJali1V5PS7dCMyLt8cPf3DG.jpg

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DieChecker

MEXICO SAYS IT WILL NEGOTIATE WITH TRUMP

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_MEXICO_TRUMP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-01-10-13-31-18

Quote

MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Mexico's new foreign relations secretary said Tuesday his country isn't just willing to negotiate changes to the North American Free Trade Agreement, it wants to start talks as soon as possible.

Luis Videgaray said there's "enormous uncertainty" following the U.S. election of Donald Trump as president. Trump has pressured companies not to move jobs to Mexico, warned he would tax those who do, and has vowed to renegotiate NAFTA.

Videgaray said in a Radio Formula interview that Trump's actions have caused concern, adding "that is why this (negotiation) process is so important, to dispel this uncertainty." He said talks should start "as soon as possible."

Mexico's peso weakened further Tuesday, closing at an interbank rate of 21.73 to $1.

Poor Mexicans. I guess that stiff backbone they had earlier before Trump was elected has gone soft?

I guess we'll need that Wall as everyone who was expecting to get a American job now will have to actually come to America to get it. Should be a bumper year for VISA requests (And fees).

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aquatus1
On 1/10/2017 at 4:31 PM, DieChecker said:

Poor Mexicans. I guess that stiff backbone they had earlier before Trump was elected has gone soft?

The article very explicitly re-affirms that Mexico will not pay for the wall.  The negotiation they are talking about concerns the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).  It's been in place since 1994.

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Thorvir
On 1/5/2017 at 10:29 AM, preacherman76 said:

Im not saying its a problem today. But say there was a nuclear, or chemical attack where people on the boarder had to flee? Any number of things could happen where Americans near the boarder might need temporary shelter from Mexico.

Huh?  I just saw this...and I'm not sure what you're getting at.  You're saying that if US citizens on the border were attacked with nuclear or chemical weapons they'd flee to Mexico?  No, no I don't think so.

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DieChecker
2 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

The article very explicitly re-affirms that Mexico will not pay for the wall.  The negotiation they are talking about concerns the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).  It's been in place since 1994.

I never said it did say that. All I said was that Mexico is now more then willing to deal with Trump, when previously they had made noise about refusing to deal with him.

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aztek

right, because thing in the world happen exactly like articles say, lol

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Aftermath

In a meeting with ambassadors and consuls yesterday, Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto said that Mexico will invest in modernizing and increasing security along the border, according to El Financiero.

http://conservativetribune.com/mexican-prez-surrenders-well-pay/

 

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Myles
1 hour ago, Aftermath said:

In a meeting with ambassadors and consuls yesterday, Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto said that Mexico will invest in modernizing and increasing security along the border, according to El Financiero.

http://conservativetribune.com/mexican-prez-surrenders-well-pay/

 

This can only be considered a good thing.

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aquatus1
20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I never said it did say that. All I said was that Mexico is now more then willing to deal with Trump, when previously they had made noise about refusing to deal with him.

When have they ever even mentioned not dealing with him?  Trump is going to be the U.S. president.  You don't get to say that you won't deal with the president of the global superpower next door.

Mexico has been P.O'ed at Trump for his idiotic comments about them paying for his wall, understandably so.  They have, and continue to, assert that they will refuse to pay for that wall.  This does not mean that any of the other trade negotiations that have been carried out for literally the entire life of both countries are going to be ignored.  Mexico does not have a problem with the U.S.  They have a problem with the manchild president elect treating them like some schoolyard bully threatening them for their lunch money.  If he starts acting like an adult, they will treat him as an adult.

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Myles
1 hour ago, aquatus1 said:

When have they ever even mentioned not dealing with him?  Trump is going to be the U.S. president.  You don't get to say that you won't deal with the president of the global superpower next door.

Mexico has been P.O'ed at Trump for his idiotic comments about them paying for his wall, understandably so.  They have, and continue to, assert that they will refuse to pay for that wall.  This does not mean that any of the other trade negotiations that have been carried out for literally the entire life of both countries are going to be ignored.  Mexico does not have a problem with the U.S.  They have a problem with the manchild president elect treating them like some schoolyard bully threatening them for their lunch money.  If he starts acting like an adult, they will treat him as an adult.

Mexico does need to do more to close the border.   I know in the past the president looked the other way.   I have no problem with Trump p***ing them off a little. 

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aztek

they will pay for the wall, it will cost them a lot more than we will spend on it.  

16 minutes ago, Myles said:

Mexico does need to do more to close the border.  

you mean like ussr, ddr, and nk?  i think we need to do more not to let people jump the border, getting out otoh, should be unrestricted. either from usa and mexico. there are many things that mexico should do, but restricting people from leaving is a thing of closed totalitarian states. 

Edited by aztek

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aquatus1

I don't either.  However, I want them p***ed off because of what they are failing to do, so that they can actually get around to doing it.

If people want to make fun of Mexico for failing to patrol the border, fine.  If you want to make fun of Mexico because you think they tried to stand up to Trump and wimped out, that's not fine, especially when it simply is not true.  That is not a tactic that should be encouraged even in a school playground, not in a discussion forum, and certainly not in an international political arena.  Treating Mexico as if it were a gang of toughs in the park is just too simplistic.

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Myles
1 hour ago, aztek said:

they will pay for the wall, it will cost them a lot more than we will spend on it.  

you mean like ussr, ddr, and nk?  i think we need to do more not to let people jump the border, getting out otoh, should be unrestricted. either from usa and mexico. there are many things that mexico should do, but restricting people from leaving is a thing of closed totalitarian states. 

I understand what you are saying, but I have to have a passport to fly to another country.   They enforce that.   I cannot leave without one.   

These people are entering a country illegally.   While it should not be their top priority, they could certainly do more.  

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aztek

when i drove into Canada, i have no one check my paper on american side, only on Canadian, when i drove back into USA no Canadian asked me for papers it was us customs that looked at my papers. 

planes are whole different story. 

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aquatus1

Well...you do need to have a passport to leave the U.S., but I have never seen it enforced.  The only time I have been asked for my passport is entering a country.

Regarding Mexican immigration, it's a tough call.  Frankly, to Mexicans, people crossing the border illegally is the least of their immediate concerns, however, the grumpy neighbor next door is making so much noise about it that they need to act on it.  Unfortunately, without more resources, the only option left is totalitarian enforcement, which is never a long term solution.  Ideally, their economy and infrastructure could grow to the point that most will prefer to stay in Mexico, but with Trump outright threatening further economic growth in Mexico, it looks like the immigration problems are going to get worse.

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Lilly

Here's what I think about the infamous wall:

1) Barriers are an important/useful part of border security, but not the only part. We will still need ICE and law enforcement.

2) A border wall can help to stem criminals and drugs from entering into the US, but it's not a solution all on its own.

3) If we can stem the tide of criminals and drugs entering the US via our southern border we will save taxpayer dollars.

4) By saving the US money one could argue that 'Mexico paid for the wall', but that's kind of a silly way of looking at it.

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aztek

we would be a lot more effective in stopping drugs if we eliminated the market for them, cuz no wall\fence or minefield will stop drug cartels,  they make way too much money.

Madeleine  cartel was making about 60 millions a day,  with money like that you can buy anything and anyone, and if someone can not be bought, they can be killed, replaced by someone who can be bought,

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Myles
2 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

Well...you do need to have a passport to leave the U.S., but I have never seen it enforced.  The only time I have been asked for my passport is entering a country.

Regarding Mexican immigration, it's a tough call.  Frankly, to Mexicans, people crossing the border illegally is the least of their immediate concerns, however, the grumpy neighbor next door is making so much noise about it that they need to act on it.  Unfortunately, without more resources, the only option left is totalitarian enforcement, which is never a long term solution.  Ideally, their economy and infrastructure could grow to the point that most will prefer to stay in Mexico, but with Trump outright threatening further economic growth in Mexico, it looks like the immigration problems are going to get worse.

The US did donate $75 million in equipment to Mexico to help secure the Mexican southern border.

The neighbor to Mexico's north is Grumpy because he keeps having to pay for your kids who move in uninvited.  

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Uncle Sam
On 1/10/2017 at 11:02 AM, Dino-Mario said:

No matter what happens, my home will be awfully screwed-up anyway. It already was, but yeah... 

No offense to you, but at times I think United States needs to declare war against the Cartels and wipe them from the face of the Earth. We got he manpower and the military to do it, most of them would be too scared to go up against a military, that isn't what they signed up for. I am talking a full military offense with Mexico Military backing us. Then after it is done and over with, the citizens of Mexico can return and the Government can finally get back to governing like they should. No Annexing, just fixing an issue so we can finally go back to our regular lives.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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Space Commander Travis

I do think it's rather funny that people now seem to urging that Mexico builds a great big beautiful Wall along its border to prevent people leaving. The German Democratic Republic did the same thing back in the 60s, as I recall, but for some reason that turned out not to be so popular. 

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Space Commander Travis
11 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

o offense to you, but at times I think United States needs to declare war against the Cartels and wipe them from the face of the Earth.

problem is, it was previous US regimes that supported these people, or at least saw them as a useful aid to whatever policy they were pursuing at the time. 

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DieChecker
22 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

When have they ever even mentioned not dealing with him?  Trump is going to be the U.S. president.  You don't get to say that you won't deal with the president of the global superpower next door.

Mexico has been P.O'ed at Trump for his idiotic comments about them paying for his wall, understandably so.  They have, and continue to, assert that they will refuse to pay for that wall.  This does not mean that any of the other trade negotiations that have been carried out for literally the entire life of both countries are going to be ignored.  Mexico does not have a problem with the U.S.  They have a problem with the manchild president elect treating them like some schoolyard bully threatening them for their lunch money.  If he starts acting like an adult, they will treat him as an adult.

Mexico is like a drugged out single mother, who sends her kids over next door to beg for food. They need to clean up their nation and make it a place that their people want to stay in and prosper.

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aquatus1

Meanwhile, the president elect is threatening companies who are trying to set up in Mexico, thus making it harder for them to prosper and become a place people want to stay in.

You could have just said a poor mother, or kids that kept coming into your yard, but no, for you, the mother has to be drugged out, and the kids are sent intentionally.  You don't think that is the sort of thing that p***es off Mexican's?  Being called rapists, criminals, and now being compared to drugged out mothers?  Are you surprised that anyone would have a problem negotiating in good faith with a country that talks about them like that?

International politics are not easy.  They are not simple.  There is no such thing as a miracle pill or a magic bullet that will solve all the problems that exist between any two countries, and no, using schoolyard tactics like snipes and threats will not work; they never have, and no matter how much people like to think it is just because the person making the threats wasn't tough enough, they never will.  The only time they work is when you have a heartless dictator in place, and frankly, those kinds of governments never last more than their leaders lifetime.

As long as the president-elect keeps making noise that he will not allow companies to set up in Mexico, no one is going to believe there are greater chances in Mexico.  As long as there continue to be jobs in the U.S. that "Americans" won't do, there will still be crowds of Mexicans gathering on the parking lots of Home Depot.  Mexicans aren't competing with the Americans for those jobs; you don't see crowds of Americans waiting in parking lots for those jobs.  If we want Mexicans to stop coming over to the U.S., two things need to happen.  There has to be greater opportunity in Mexico, and there has to be less opportunity in the U.S.  Both have to happen, not just one or the other.

Edited by aquatus1
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aquatus1
20 hours ago, Myles said:

The US did donate $75 million in equipment to Mexico to help secure the Mexican southern border.

The neighbor to Mexico's north is Grumpy because he keeps having to pay for your kids who move in uninvited.  

The reason the neighbors kids keep coming over is because they get paid to do the chores no one in that household likes to do.

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Lilly

I really don't think the concern is over the folks who come across the border just looking for work. The concern is that the vast majority of drugs enter the United States via the southern border.

See link: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

The people involved in moving these drugs are criminals and the people who are receiving these drugs are criminals. The problem is both Mexico's and the United State's. IMO the best/sane method for dealing with this problem would be to cooperate with one another.

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