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Farmer77

Is Trump Keeping his Campaign Promises?

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danielost
10 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

According to the LA Times this morning, yesterday Trump compromised on at least three issues.

First, he said he had been persuaded that torture was ineffective and that other methods work better -- torture only generates fabrications, not truth.  I would wish he would address the moral issue here -- that the appeal of torture seems to be sadistic and revenge impulses in the interrogator and has no scientific basis, and, more significantly, is wrong.

Second, he backed off on prosecuting Mrs. Clinton, saying she had suffered enough and that the Clinton Trust actually does a good deal of good.  This is really nothing more than an admission that the Big Lie he based his campaign (that Mrs. Clinton is "evil") and apparently won the Presidency on is false.  He would in fact, or at least should in fact, have no influence on whether there are prosecutions or not -- this is supposed to be done in a non-political way by the attorneys investigating -- and it would seem that no prosecutions are in the offing.  Putting it in terms of having "mercy" on the Clintons is transparent and outrageous, after the way he conducted the campaign. 

Third, now he says he has an "open mind" about global warming and that US withdrawal from recent warming agreements will not be automatic.  That is perhaps the most encouraging thing of all, since the consequences of his sticking with his prior unscientific attitudes could lead to disaster for future generations.

torture is wrong says citizen of nation that uses it.  for the reason of using it.

Edited by danielost
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Lilly
8 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Well, if you predicted that all the above was false, can you pick my lotto numbers?

I didn't predict it, I just experienced it.

Look, people (especially news people) have been saying at every step of the way that Mr Trump can't do what he sets out to do. So, when I hear someone say that President Elect Trump won't be able to get the 'real' Republicans in the House and Senate to work with him, I'm not so sure about it. PE Trump just cordially met with former Gov Mitt Romney...would that have been predicted by mainstream news? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and PE Trump's past behavior is that the man isn't quite the clown/buffoon his opposition paints him as being. Like him or loathe him he put together a team (for half of what Clinton spent) that beat one of the best political machines of modern times.

Currently, PE Trump isn't going after Mrs Clinton, is he breaking his promise? Or, is this a realization that going after her in the conventional manner will simply result in her obtaining a pardon from President Obama, not to mention adding fuel to the social fires the Liberal left are attempting to light just about everywhere.

No, I'm not psychic but I can read the 'writing on the wall' so to speak.

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Astra.
6 minutes ago, danielost said:

yorture is wrong says citizen of nation that uses it.  for the reason of using it.

What does this mean ?

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Lilly
3 hours ago, Purifier said:

Great idea starting this thread, And Then.

Trump is going in the direction I figured he would. More broken promises and disappointments to come I'll bet.


 

The man isn't even President yet for goodness sakes. Also, to get anything done he just might have to go in a direction that many may not initially like...it's called compromise. I would suggest that everyone read Trump's book "The Art of the Deal" to gain insight on how President Trump is likely going to operate...it's a real eye opener.

Edited by Lilly
typo
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danielost
7 minutes ago, Astra. said:

What does this mean ?

i edited my post

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Myles
6 hours ago, and then said:

Nowhere has that been stated.  His reasoning was that he didn't want to "hurt" the Clintons.  I suspect -and hope - that the Congress will move forward with the investigations.  NO ONE should be above the law.  If he thinks he's buying goodwill from the Left, he's kidding himself.  I think he's in real danger of turning his supporters against him.  They are the only barrier he will have against impeachment at some future date when he has offended BOTH parties.

I think he is trying to bridge the gap.  

Part of the reason I liked him is because both parties hate him.   His job isn't to be liked, it's to get stuff done.

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ellapenella
6 hours ago, and then said:

Nowhere has that been stated.  His reasoning was that he didn't want to "hurt" the Clintons.  I suspect -and hope - that the Congress will move forward with the investigations.  NO ONE should be above the law.  If he thinks he's buying goodwill from the Left, he's kidding himself.  I think he's in real danger of turning his supporters against him.  They are the only barrier he will have against impeachment at some future date when he has offended BOTH parties.

you do realize that he never said that he is calling off the investigation , right?  

 

 

10 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I think all he is doing right now is trying to remove from the table any items that may distract from the decisions that need immediate attention.  Tossing bones to the media, so to speak, so that they don't keep hounding him about certain questions.  No investigation into Hillary can begin now anyway.  He's only the President elect and has no power or authority.  After he gets his entire cabinet in place, with a new AG and possibly new FBI director, then the people in those positions will be free to do their job as they see fit without any interference or guidance from Trump.  Unfortunately, what we're seeing is Trump learning to be a politician.  We have no idea what he has learned from his security briefings that may have changed his opinions or his perception of reality.  There are many things that the President elect is privy to that would have been unknown to the candidate.

I see it this way too.

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Lilly
14 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think he is trying to bridge the gap.  

Part of the reason I liked him is because both parties hate him.   His job isn't to be liked, it's to get stuff done.

I'd say it's dead to rights that PE Trump has indeed thought this out and that he certainly does intend to 'get stuff done'. Now, what he can achieve remains to be seen...this is where time will tell.

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RavenHawk

11 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

According to the LA Times this morning, yesterday Trump compromised on at least three issues.

Let’s wait until he is inaugurated to see how much he’s compromised.

 

First, he said he had been persuaded that torture was ineffective and that other methods work better -- torture only generates fabrications, not truth.  I would wish he would address the moral issue here -- that the appeal of torture seems to be sadistic and revenge impulses in the interrogator and has no scientific basis, and, more significantly, is wrong.

I’m kind’a with Daniellost.  Interesting that someone from Vietnam would bring this up.  What other methods work better?  There are indeed various reasons to torture.  Some are sadistic and revengeful and crosses the line of morality.  Some are just time sensitive.  However, data mining is very scientific, if not an art.  The purpose is to break the body AND the mind.  When the subject begins to tell you anything that they think you want to know, then you know that you have only broken the body and now the mind must be broken.  When the mind is broken too, then you get the truth as the subject is literally incapable of lying.  Torture is very effective when applied properly.

 

Second, he backed off on prosecuting Mrs. Clinton, saying she had suffered enough and that the Clinton Trust actually does a good deal of good.  This is really nothing more than an admission that the Big Lie he based his campaign (that Mrs. Clinton is "evil") and apparently won the Presidency on is false.  He would in fact, or at least should in fact, have no influence on whether there are prosecutions or not -- this is supposed to be done in a non-political way by the attorneys investigating -- and it would seem that no prosecutions are in the offing.  Putting it in terms of having "mercy" on the Clintons is transparent and outrageous, after the way he conducted the campaign. 

I must admit that I was disappointed too, however he’s not in office yet.  I would easily give up repealing Obamacare and revealing the fraud that ACC is just in order to bring Clinton to justice.  That level of corruption cannot be allowed to get away.  But I am willing to hold off judgment on this.  He might not want her to take flight or Obama to pardon her before getting into position to indict her.  Or she is simply going to be held for ransom.  Trump will hold this morsel over the Progs as a threat if they don’t do his bidding.  What Prog is going to want to send Hilary to the gallows?  The case that Comey laid out against her is enough to put her away for life.  Trump doesn’t need a special prosecutor.

 

Third, now he says he has an "open mind" about global warming and that US withdrawal from recent warming agreements will not be automatic.  That is perhaps the most encouraging thing of all, since the consequences of his sticking with his prior unscientific attitudes could lead to disaster for future generations.

He’s always had an open mind.  That mind is working faster than most here.  Science is not an opinion poll.  ACC is just that, an opinion.  There is plenty of evidence against it.  Perhaps the most damning is the Vostok ice cores.  I just think that he probably sees no benefit from withdrawing at this moment.  Let’s just wait and watch what happens.  If it’s non-binding there is no immediate need to pull out.  This just keeps the ACC proponents busy for the time being and out of his hair.

 

So I see purpose in what he is doing.  He may not fulfill all of his promises, but what President does?  He’s working on prioritizing what he needs to do so that when day one comes, he’s ready to go.

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Nnicolette

Broken promises? I mean i don't like the guy either but he hasn't even taken office yet. Isn't that accusation a bit premature?

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and then
2 hours ago, Myles said:

I think he is trying to bridge the gap.  

Part of the reason I liked him is because both parties hate him.   His job isn't to be liked, it's to get stuff done.

 

I didn't vote for Trump in the primary.  I really didn't feel he was a serious candidate at the time.  I voted for him in the general because he wasn't Hildebeast.  Ella is convinced that he isn't going to stop the investigations and I hope she's correct.  I understand that politicians lie to win the office but he wasn't supposed to BE a politician.  My point is that he has practically no allies in DC.  If he begins to turn his back on those who sent him there, he will lose his popularity among the people and that is his only real protection against Impeachment, conviction and being booted from office.

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ellapenella
8 minutes ago, and then said:

I didn't vote for Trump in the primary.  I really didn't feel he was a serious candidate at the time.  I voted for him in the general because he wasn't Hildebeast.  Ella is convinced that he isn't going to stop the investigations and I hope she's correct.  I understand that politicians lie to win the office but he wasn't supposed to BE a politician.  My point is that he has practically no allies in DC.  If he begins to turn his back on those who sent him there, he will lose his popularity among the people and that is his only real protection against Impeachment, conviction and being booted from office.

Do you think that Trey Gowdy and Jeff Sessions are not going to pursue it? Especially if Jeff Sessions is confirmed sworn in as Attorney general?

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Uncle Sam
10 minutes ago, and then said:

I didn't vote for Trump in the primary.  I really didn't feel he was a serious candidate at the time.  I voted for him in the general because he wasn't Hildebeast.  Ella is convinced that he isn't going to stop the investigations and I hope she's correct.  I understand that politicians lie to win the office but he wasn't supposed to BE a politician.  My point is that he has practically no allies in DC.  If he begins to turn his back on those who sent him there, he will lose his popularity among the people and that is his only real protection against Impeachment, conviction and being booted from office.

She is quite correct. This is one promise he can't back away from without severe backlash. He must go through with this, but he can't do it now while Obama is in office, he will just simply pardon her like an stooge he is.

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ellapenella

Isn't it out of Trump's hands once the DOJ is established? Justice is designed to  flow, right?

If she's proven guilty, it's her own fault.

Edited by Ellapennella

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and then
Just now, Ellapennella said:

Do you think that Trey Gowdy and Jeff Sessions are not going to pursue it? Especially if Jeff Sessions is confirmed sworn in as Attorney general?

I think that appointees serve at the pleasure of the president and that if he truly has decided to squelch an investigation, they will either resign or acquiesce to the president's will on the matter.  I really hope you and others here are correct about him just deflecting attention on this until after Obama no longer has a "pardon pen" to use.  Of all the promises the new president-elect has made, this one and the one on jobs are the two he MUST NOT walk away from.  The Democrats are going to have the knives out for 4 years no matter what he does, so he needs to keep his support strong.

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RavenHawk
12 minutes ago, and then said:

My point is that he has practically no allies in DC.

That is why he is holding back for now.  He’s not going to willingly give up ammo.  But he doesn’t want people to think the gun is pointing their way.

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.ZZ.
4 minutes ago, and then said:

I think that appointees serve at the pleasure of the president and that if he truly has decided to squelch an investigation, they will either resign or acquiesce to the president's will on the matter.  I really hope you and others here are correct about him just deflecting attention on this until after Obama no longer has a "pardon pen" to use.  Of all the promises the new president-elect has made, this one and the one on jobs are the two he MUST NOT walk away from.  The Democrats are going to have the knives out for 4 years no matter what he does, so he needs to keep his support strong.

 

4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That is why he is holding back for now.  He’s not going to willingly give up ammo.  But he doesn’t want people to think the gun is pointing their way.

I find comfort in these 2 posts. I've been down in the mouth about this, good points both.

Happy Thanksgiving.

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and then

I have to admit that I don't see the guile in him that the rest of you have.  If he really is that reserved and able to play Obama then I will be pleasantly surprised.  I can only imagine the howling from the media and their willing stooges. 

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GlitterRose
15 hours ago, and then said:

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/23/trump-changes-his-tune-on-climate-change-jailing-clinton/

So my question is, how many of his core promises can he walk away from and still continue to receive support from those who put him into office?  FTR, I'm glad that he's walking back the line on climate change.  Deciding to allow HRC and the Foundation to skate without any action is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.  I have no desire to necessarily see the lying crook in a cell but we either live in a nation of laws or we don't.  People are not stupid and at some point, that same lawlessness will spread throughout our system and it will be the death of our nation.  She, Huma, Lerner, and Koskinen need to be exposed and Lerner and Koskinen need PRISON TIME.

The reason they are "allowed to skate" is because he knew all along there was nothing to the claims. And if they set precedent by imprisoning people over nothing, then they set themselves up for the same type of treatment. Pence is hiding every single email he ever sent or received as governor. They know they all try to hide their correspondence. 

This was just a ploy to rile people up and get them to vote for him. He knew it all along. 

And oh boy...don't even get me started on this foundation business. If he starts probing into a foundation that is an obvious valid charity...his own comes under scrutiny...and it's not. 

Ya'll got duped "big league." And I don't know if people will be able to figure it out, since it seems he's trying to shut down the legitimate media. 

Edited by ChaosRose
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Lilly
6 minutes ago, and then said:

I have to admit that I don't see the guile in him that the rest of you have.  If he really is that reserved and able to play Obama then I will be pleasantly surprised.  I can only imagine the howling from the media and their willing stooges. 

Just curious,  have you read any of Donald Trump's books?

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ellapenella

So the president can do a 360 pardon only for ongoing investigations  not for ongoing criminality, the Clinton Foundation is an ongoing criminal enterprise, so it can always be reopened because  it is ongoing. Not even a presidential pardon can pardon an ongoing criminal operation.

So, it's not Trump's job to prosecute her, his job is to place an attorney general . From what I'm hearing about Jeff Sessions he will investigate it.  So no matter what Trump feels about the Clinton's or what Conway feels about it, it's not up to them. It will be in the hands of the attorney general. Maybe there's going to be an investigation of many people once Jeff Sessions is sworn in.  I know they don't want him and will try to prevent him from that position.

 

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RavenHawk

For some reason this comes to mind.

 

 

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ellapenella
45 minutes ago, -ZZ- said:

 

Happy Thanksgiving.

And if wants Barry abuse's that power,  does it change the DOJ operating under Jeff Sessions - reopening of the ongoing criminal enterprise of the Clinton Foundation?  Seems like a chess game.

Edited by Ellapennella

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hacktorp
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

What other methods work better?  There are indeed various reasons to torture.

 

A Four Star General helped convince Trump to change his view on torture:

 

"On the issue of torture, Mr. Trump suggested he had changed his mind about the value of waterboarding after talking with James N. Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general, who headed the United States Central Command.

“He said, ‘I’ve never found it to be useful,’” Mr. Trump said. He added that Mr. Mattis found more value in building trust and rewarding cooperation with terrorism suspects: “‘Give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers, and I’ll do better.’

“I was very impressed by that answer,” Mr. Trump said.

Torture, he said, is “not going to make the kind of a difference that a lot of people are thinking.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/donald-trump-visit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

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RavenHawk
12 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

The reason they are "allowed to skate" is because he knew all along there was nothing to the claims.

Rose, I hold a clearence.  I know the severity and consequenses if I abuse my position.  I can tell you that if I did just a fraction of what she did, I would be in Leavenworth, 20 years hard labor.  The case that Comey presented  is enough to put her away.  What Comey did was to list each thing.  I.e. this is what she did, it is a crime, but we are not going to charge her.  And repeated that with each charge.  Petraeus’ career was ruined for less.  A sailor is going to jail for a year for having 6 photos of his sub and they were for personal use.  She can’t get out of this, it is just a matter of time (she is on borrowed time as it is).  The Sword of Damocles perilously balances over her head.  At some point, maybe a year or two down the road, everyone will know that it is coming and that will weigh heavy on her.  That would be just added satisfaction.  Better to break her before you indict her.  And who says torture is not effective?  Justice will be done.  After that, the coruption of the Foundation will collapse around her ears.  No doubt that some funds found its way to the needy but the majority ended up in the Clinton’s pockets to find favored status with forign players, which is an act of treason.

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