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So, where do Bigfoot sleep/settle?


Dunbaraj

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2 hours ago, Thorvir said:

There isn't any.  You're not disagreeing with that or me, you're disagreeing with facts.

And you'd be wrong to think that.

I don't think you're gullible or unscientific--you seem to be rational and likable.  I just think you're wrong.

No evidence, you say? Multiple normal credible people seeing very similar things is evidence that should be considered (neither blindly accepted nor blindly dismissed) by any rational open-minded person. And to add to that is physical evidence like footprints. I do believe something not understood by science is going on and also that there are people of a certain mindset that will ridicule any evidence that smacks of the paranormal or popular crypto-creatures. That is just my own personal appraisal after years of considering all sides.

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2 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Here is a paper from the Stanford School of Law regarding the reliability of eyewitness testimony https://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue One/fisher&tversky.htm

Feel free to present your best footprint evidence.  BTW, Dr. Meldrum has never presented his footprints for peer review so neither should you.  Just sayin'

Great! That means that you realize making an extraordinary claim such as a 7 foot, 700 pound, hairy biped wandering the PN in breeding numbers (let's forget all the other states that report the same creature as that just adds to the problem) but doesn't leave a single bit of observable (empirical) evidence of its existence in at least 60 years (several hundred/thousand according to several believers here) is an unreasonable event. 

I am aware of the imperfection of eyewitness evidence and am aware that it should not be blindly dismissed nor blindly accepted. We could not function if our senses continually misinform us. Almost all of what we see, we accept as real.

We will let the experts debate the footprint evidence. It is controversial and we are not going to settle it here.

Regarding the last part (I am new here today and haven't figured out how to parse quotes yet into separate chunks; you are free to inform me) I have come to believe Bigfoots are not just another animal but have elements commonly called paranormal. They are not full-time residents of our physical plane. Native Americans tell how Sasquatches have been tracked and then seemingly vanish.

Edited by papageorge1
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7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Eye witness descriptions are also considered (not blindly dismissed nor blindly accepted) in the court of common sense. A level of quantity, quality and consistency of testimony can be telling.

Once again, this does not constitute scientific evidence.

6 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Native Americans tell how Sasquatches have been tracked and then seemingly vanish.

Native Americans also tell of disembodied flying heads and talking beavers.

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7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

 

We will let the experts debate the footprint evidence. It is controversial and we are not going to settle it here.

 

The fact that many have been proven to be fakes while none have been proven to be real can at least lean us to the side of bigfoot not existing. 

I don't understand your paranormal argument.   Maybe you can explain in more detail what you think.

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I've read theories about Bigfoot being a "transdimensional being" that can shift in and out at will and that's why we never find any real evidence. It's pretty ridiculous. 

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28 minutes ago, The Narcisse said:

I've read theories about Bigfoot being a "transdimensional being" that can shift in and out at will and that's why we never find any real evidence. It's pretty ridiculous. 

I agree.   It reeks of an explanation only to support lack of evidence.   Similar to saying that the only reason people don't see leprechauns is because they are invisible.     An excuse of convenience. 

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It's a lazy excuse at that. From now on I'll just blame everything on interdimensional beings.

Edited by Carnoferox
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9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I am aware of the imperfection of eyewitness evidence and am aware that it should not be blindly dismissed nor blindly accepted. We could not function if our senses continually misinform us. Almost all of what we see, we accept as real.

Agreed.  The problem with BF is that is the ONLY evidence and even you admit it is weak.   We do accept what we see, even if we really don't know what we saw because our mind, literally, fills in the blanks.  What it fills those blanks in with varies from person to person.  I remember watching a show where they took a group of people on a desert tour which "accidentally" ran into a "UFI crash site"  When they got back they interviewed each witness and every single one saw something different even though the incident was only an hour old.  They brought them back later and asked then to repeat their story and in almost every case it had radically changed.   I can't search YouTube on this computer but try and find it, it really is an incredible thing to watch and is a real eye opener on how our minds simply make things up to build the reality around us.  (If you can find it please post a link).

9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

We will let the experts debate the footprint evidence. It is controversial and we are not going to settle it here.

Meldrum is the only expert I know of but the other best examples have been proven frauds with the perpetrator admitting it in all but one case..

9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Regarding the last part (I am new here today and haven't figured out how to parse quotes yet into separate chunks; you are free to inform me) I have come to believe Bigfoots are not just another animal but have elements commonly called paranormal. They are not full-time residents of our physical plane. Native Americans tell how Sasquatches have been tracked and then seemingly vanish.

To separate the quote into pieces simply put your cursor at the spot you'd like to separate the post and double-click.  That works in most cases and if it doesn't then do a cut and paste.

AsI don't consider the "paranormal" as real and therefore reject it out of hand as an explanation for anything. 

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10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

No evidence, you say? Multiple normal credible people seeing very similar things is evidence that should be considered (neither blindly accepted nor blindly dismissed) by any rational open-minded person.

"Credible" people you say?  What makes people credible?  Anyone can make a mistake in anything they claim to see.  I do not consider eyewitness testimony evidence, and you shouldn't either.

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

And to add to that is physical evidence like footprints.

None of which have shown to be bigfoot. And most (all?) have been shown to be hoaxes or at least mis-identification of other animals.

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I do believe something not understood by science is going on and also that there are people of a certain mindset that will ridicule any evidence that smacks of the paranormal or popular crypto-creatures.

Then you don't understand science.

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

That is just my own personal appraisal after years of considering all sides.

Which is fine, and that's your opinion.  For the rest of us, claims are not evidence, and to this date, not one single piece of evidence has been brought forth to prove the existence of bigfoot.

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3 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

Once again, this does not constitute scientific evidence.

 

I agree actually, so science should remain agnostic on the question. I, as an individual, will consider evidence and argumentation from all sides in forming my best judgment.

3 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

Native Americans also tell of disembodied flying heads and talking beavers.

I think they also have a grip on what actual events they observe in the physical world.

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Just now, papageorge1 said:

I agree actually, so science should remain agnostic on the question. I, as an individual, will consider evidence and argumentation from all sides in forming my best judgment.

I think they also have a grip on what actual events they observe in the physical world.

I am really only interested in the scientific aspect, so eyewitness testimony and legends are meaningless to me.

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3 hours ago, Myles said:

The fact that many have been proven to be fakes while none have been proven to be real can at least lean us to the side of bigfoot not existing. 

I think you are adding too much personal bias into that statement, honestly. There are serious investigators that I know would differ with your comments. How could anyone prove they are real with no official one to compare against?

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1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

There are serious investigators that I know would differ with your comments. 

Besides Meldrum, who else? Even then Meldrum was fooled by the hoaxed Cripplefoot tracks.

Edited by Carnoferox
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1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I think you are adding too much personal bias into that statement, honestly. There are serious investigators that I know would differ with your comments. How could anyone prove they are real with no official one to compare against?

Who are these "serious investigators"?  

They cannot prove they are real.   That is the issue.     They HAVE been able to prove most to be fake.  

 

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Just now, Myles said:

Who are these "serious investigators"?

Mountain-Monsters-AIMS-Team.jpg

(But I do love watching Mountain Monsters, even if it is faked to the max).

Just now, Myles said:

They cannot prove they are real.   That is the issue.     They HAVE been able to prove most to be fake.  

Bigfoot investigators do serve a purpose, then, right?

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56 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Agreed.  The problem with BF is that is the ONLY evidence and even you admit it is weak.   We do accept what we see, even if we really don't know what we saw because our mind, literally, fills in the blanks.  What it fills those blanks in with varies from person to person.  I remember watching a show where they took a group of people on a desert tour which "accidentally" ran into a "UFI crash site"  When they got back they interviewed each witness and every single one saw something different even though the incident was only an hour old.  They brought them back later and asked then to repeat their story and in almost every case it had radically changed.   I can't search YouTube on this computer but try and find it, it really is an incredible thing to watch and is a real eye opener on how our minds simply make things up to build the reality around us.  (If you can find it please post a link).

I disputably on this contend there is more than eyewitness evidence. But anyway, I certainly consider the imperfection of eyewitness accounts. Broad daylight clear observations by competent people are taken seriously by me.

 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

AsI don't consider the "paranormal" as real and therefore reject it out of hand as an explanation for anything. 

Rejecting out of hand is not the hallmark of scientific thinking.

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29 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

"Credible" people you say?  What makes people credible?  Anyone can make a mistake in anything they claim to see.  I do not consider eyewitness testimony evidence, and you shouldn't either.

None of which have shown to be bigfoot. And most (all?) have been shown to be hoaxes or at least mis-identification of other animals.

Then you don't understand science.

Which is fine, and that's your opinion.  For the rest of us, claims are not evidence, and to this date, not one single piece of evidence has been brought forth to prove the existence of bigfoot.

You'd be in trouble if your eye vision of the world was not pretty darn accurate. That said, I of course consider the possibility of error in any of our senses. But many people seeing similar things in broad daylight is evidence (not proof) I consider.

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22 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

I am really only interested in the scientific aspect, so eyewitness testimony and legends are meaningless to me.

Ok so we differ in our interests then. I am interested in considering all evidence and argumentation from all sides and forming my best opinion of what I think is actually going on.

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17 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

Mountain-Monsters-AIMS-Team.jpg

(But I do love watching Mountain Monsters, even if it is faked to the max).

I am the believer here and I actually HATE that show.:blink:

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12 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Rejecting out of hand is not the hallmark of scientific thinking.

Every attempt to prove the paranormal real has failed, every single one yet you are using it as an excuse for the lack of any physical evidence.  Just how does this" paranormal garbage disposal system" work, in your imagination, since obviously you have never observed this activity in person.

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18 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

You'd be in trouble if your eye vision of the world was not pretty darn accurate.

You just don't understand human perception then.

18 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

That said, I of course consider the possibility of error in any of our senses.

As you should.

18 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

But many people seeing similar things in broad daylight is evidence (not proof) I consider.

"Similar things"  Only because seeing bigfoot is the in-thing to do and claim.  I submit that not one single person has seen bigfoot in the history of EVER.

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15 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I am the believer here and I actually HATE that show.:blink:

Your option to do.  But, it's far better than any other single cryptid show out there...these guys just don't take themselves so seriously, and when it comes to faking their material, at least they don't pretend they're doing otherwise.

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1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I disputably on this contend there is more than eyewitness evidence.

Hi papageorge, 

What evidence are you thinking of? There really isn't anything beyond footprints, none of which are best explained as having been made by sasquatch. 

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1 hour ago, Merc14 said:
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Every attempt to prove the paranormal real has failed, every single one yet you are using it as an excuse for the lack of any physical evidence.  Just how does this" paranormal garbage disposal system" work, in your imagination, since obviously you have never observed this activity in person.

Every attempt to prove the paranormal real has failed, every single one yet you are using it as an excuse for the lack of any physical evidence.

 

I believe there is now repeated experimental proof of its existence and that some will never be willing to accept that fact and the rest of us move on without them. Secondly, the millions of seemingly paranormal events in human experience carries weight with me. You can not 'prove' things that are spontaneous and leave no trace. I am 100% sure myself of the existence of the paranormal but we each must form our own opinion.

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Just how does this" paranormal garbage disposal system" work, in your imagination, since obviously you have never observed this activity in person.

Not sure what you mean. By 'paranormal garbage disposal system' are you referring to the Bigfoots ability to vanish? If so that is actually explained in many esoteric wisdom traditions but that can be researched on your own and is beyond the scope of a reply post, but I would guide you to the subject of dematerializing in the Theosophical literature. Here is one such discussion; Disappearance.

Now, I am not claiming to know how this occurs with bigfoots or if they use the methods in the link or if they can do something quite different. I have reached the certainty that this is a mind boggling universe we live in.

 

Edited by papageorge1
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