Computer scientists urge Clinton campaign

[Why not]

1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

If the shoe was on the other foot, people would be threatening armed uprising if there wasn't a recount. 

The way it stands, dems will just be expected to suck it up.

If Clinton would have won the election the rest of us WOULD have excepted it. Would not like it, but you would not have to ask us to "suck it up".  We also would not be trashing the Country.

[GlitterRose]

7 minutes ago, Why not said:

If Clinton would have won the election the rest of us WOULD have excepted it. Would not like it, but you would not have to ask us to "suck it up".  We also would not be trashing the Country.

[Dark_Grey]

For the 98% of users who don't read the source links:

Quote

The computer scientists believe they have found evidence that vote totals in the three states could have been manipulated or hacked and presented their findings to top Clinton aides on a call last Thursday.

Quote

Their group told Podesta and Elias that while they had not found any evidence of hacking, the pattern needs to be looked at by an independent review.

These "top computer scientists" (they aren't,) found a difference in votes of ~7% in states that used electronic voting machines. These "top computer scientists" did not find any evidence of hacking so what does that mean? It means the ~7% difference in votes is due to a myriad of other factors. For all we know, this could be a small think tank funded by the Clinton's to make a stink. But I doubt that.

Quote

A former Clinton aide declined to respond to questions about whether they will request an audit based on the findings.

Ergo, they know they got nothing.

[Dark_Grey]

12 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

If you're trying to make a case that Trump supporters would have chimped out, you're going need a lot more than one screen-capped tweet. There are many Trump supporters in the hospital right now because sore losers have decided Trump supporters are all Nazis and no one feels bad for beating up Nazis. Obama sure doesn't seem phased by it. Want to see Trump denounce the alt-right on TV? How about the one where he calls for the hatred to stop and the country to unite?

The disconnect between the media narrative and reality is baffling sometimes.

[GlitterRose]

3 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

 

These "top computer scientists" (they aren't,)

The scientists, among them J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society

He has a pretty good curriculum vitae. Ph.D. in Computer Science from Princeton. But education doesn't matter anymore in a post fact world. 

[White Unicorn]

2 hours ago, Lilly said:

There's one itsy bitsy little problem with this notion. If one side decides something was not quite on the 'up and up' and pushes for investigation, one has to keep in mind that their own conduct will be under scrutiny as well. And considering what we know about the DNC's manipulation during the campaign (regarding Mr Sanders and getting the debate questions ahead of time) the Democrats might not want their actions regarding the voting process investigated either.

I'm with Jill Stein for an investigation.  It needs to be brought out just as a form of transparency if nothing more. One thing I remember hearing about was one of the swing states had a high percentage of straight line Democratics left top of ticket unvoted.  That seems very weird to me,  just like in another state's primary, Bernie voters  said they registered Democrat to vote online but was changed to independent and not permitted to vote. 

There's nothing wrong with paper recounts especially when all computerized voting is somewhat vulnerable to manipulation.

It's not really about changing the outcome of election just transparency that if something funny was happening, it needs to be addressed.

In the Electorial college, I heard they officially vote 3rd Wednesday after the 1st Tuesday in December?  Some states can  go with popular votes in their state? I don't know enough about each of the states. But appears recounts should be done as in other elections like with AL Gore winning popular vote but losing the electorial. I say let the chips fall where they may but paper recounts if available should be done!

[GlitterRose]

Just now, Dark_Grey said:

If you're trying to make a case that Trump supporters would have chimped out, you're going need a lot more than one screen-capped tweet. There are many Trump supporters in the hospital right now because sore losers have decided Trump supporters are all Nazis and no one feels bad for beating up Nazis. Obama sure doesn't seem phased by it. Want to see Trump denounce the alt-right on TV? How about the one where he calls for the hatred to stop and the country to unite?

The disconnect between the media narrative and reality is baffling sometimes.

And there are many actual Nazis out there getting validation from a Trump presidency and appointment of Steve Bannon.

[Lilly]

I still think nothing will come of this, the scrutiny this kind of thing will place on both parties isn't something either of them wants IMO. I could be wrong...but I don't think so.

[Dark_Grey]

Just now, ChaosRose said:

The scientists, among them J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society

He has a pretty good curriculum vitae. Ph.D. in Computer Science from Princeton. But education doesn't matter anymore in a post fact world. 

I forgot that U of M was world renowned for it's computer studies. If this guy's just another shill, there's nothing to see here. If he's a legit "top scientist", there's still nothing to see here. He said himself there was no evidence of hacking.

[Lilly]

Keep in mind, some Nazis also endorsed Clinton: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12192975/The-KKK-leader-who-says-he-backs-Hillary-Clinton.html

Candidates do not have control over those who choose to endorse them.

[GlitterRose]

University of Michigan is considered among the top schools for Computer Science. But people can just dismiss anything now by just saying something derogatory about the source. It doesn't matter whether or not it's true.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwif78z78MHQAhVHxVQKHYITBkkQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgrad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com%2Fbest-graduate-schools%2Ftop-science-schools%2Fcomputer-science-rankings&usg=AFQjCNEpN76eZQu5MyCYqwlGV-Y1tLsKDw

[Dark_Grey]

5 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

And there are many actual Nazis out there getting validation from a Trump presidency and appointment of Steve Bannon.

How is getting validation from a Trump Presidency even close to Trump validating them? Also, as far as I can tell, the elderly veterans and young ladies that have been attacked were not Nazis.

[White Unicorn]

34 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

If Clinton's camp had any cards up their sleeve, they would play them. If they aren't formally challenging the vote, I suspect it's for one of two reasons:

1) They don't want to draw attention to vote rigging as something could surface they would implicate them

2) They legitimately don't have a case and they are finally realizing how unpopular HRC really is

Add a number three, let a third party do it for them. Green Party can pay the expense too.

[Dark_Grey]

2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

University of Michigan is considered among the top schools for Computer Science. But people can just dismiss anything now by just saying something derogatory about the source. It doesn't matter whether or not it's true.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwif78z78MHQAhVHxVQKHYITBkkQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgrad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com%2Fbest-graduate-schools%2Ftop-science-schools%2Fcomputer-science-rankings&usg=AFQjCNEpN76eZQu5MyCYqwlGV-Y1tLsKDw

Again, this incredibly well-vetted comp-sci guru did not find evidence of hacking. In earlier articles he's quoted as saying he does not believe Russia could influence the voting machines. This guy and his squad found a statistical anomaly - that's it. CNN is blowing this up in to vote rigging when that's simply not the case.

[GlitterRose]

3 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

How is getting validation from a Trump Presidency even close to Trump validating them? Also, as far as I can tell, the elderly veterans and young ladies that have been attacked were not Nazis.

He validated them by appointing their hero, Steve Bannon to a position in the White House. 

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Dark_Grey said:

Again, this incredibly well-vetted comp-sci guru did not find evidence of hacking. In earlier articles he's quoted as saying he does not believe Russia could influence the voting machines. This guy and his squad found a statistical anomaly - that's it. CNN is blowing this up in to vote rigging when that's simply not the case.

They said they found vulnerabilities that could have been exploited, and that it should be looked into. 

And they are incredibly well-vetted comp-sci gurus. Indeed, the government called on them when the IRS got hacked. 

[Dark_Grey]

4 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

He validated them by appointing their hero, Steve Bannon to a position in the White House. 

I wonder what the Nazis thought when Ben Carson endorsed Trump or when Trump put him in the running to be on the team?

[danielost]

2 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

And there were all of the voter suppression efforts that came after the Voting Rights Act was gutted. I keep mentioning those, although actual vetted news from legitimate sources now pales next to whatever bunk Trump, Breitbart, and Alex Jones spew. 

you mean like the voter computers changing votes from trump to hillary.  machines supplied by soros.

[Dark_Grey]

6 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

They said they found vulnerabilities that could have been exploited, and that it should be looked into.

Where are you seeing this?

Quote

“Were this year’s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack?” J. Alex Halderman, a computer science professor at the University of Michigan who has studied the vulnerabilities of election systems at length, wrote on Medium on Wednesday as the calls based on his conclusions mounted. “Probably not.”

More likely, he wrote, pre-election polls were “systematically wrong.” But the only way to resolve the lingering questions would be to examine “paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states,” he wrote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/politics/vote-count-hillary-clinton-trump.html?_r=0

[F3SS]

1 hour ago, pallidin said:

My question is this...

If the "popular vote" has no consequence of election (... All hail the holiness of the electoral college << sarcasm>>), than why does the popular vote even exist?

The popular vote of each state counts on its own to determine who the electoral votes go to. The popular vote determines every sitting office except the presidency because all other offices are local appointments while the president represents all the states. Seriously by now all the regulars here who don't get it are being purposely ignorant. 

16 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

The scientists, among them J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society

He has a pretty good curriculum vitae. Ph.D. in Computer Science from Princeton. But education doesn't matter anymore in a post fact world. 

Me, diechecker,  and dark gray have all pointed out how that particular man came out to say that the media was spinning his words, findings. He says there is no evidence to back up what you keep saying. Only that there are numbers that seem out of place and might be worth a look. He did not claim there is evidence of rigging. Trump is going to be the POTUS.

[GlitterRose]

Same old tired partisan bs. What!!?? You didn't find anything to put her in jail for? Well, investigate again! You still didn't find anything?! Well, investigate her again! And again! Because there must be something wrong with all these investigations if they don't end up putting in jail this person I don't like.

But over here...nothing to see over here, folks. No need to even look over here. And what is this "Computer Science" you speak of? Some new liberal media euphemism, surely. 

[F3SS]

Arhuh...garsh...I gess yer rite.

[aquatus1]

Unfortunately, regardless of whether there was vote tampering or not, changing from Trump to Hillary would simply bring civil war that much closer.  Both sides are perfectly ready and willing to fight, but currently, only one side has a good excuse to do so.  If the current balance of power flips, that will be enough to bring out the savage in everyone.

[Kurzweil]

1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

And there are many actual Nazis out there getting validation from a Trump presidency and appointment of Steve Bannon.

What idiots. They spelled Clinton wrong.

[aquatus1]

What the heck is that first one, the one that looks like a square P with a square sickle?  Is that some new swastika design the nazi kids are using now?  I know the second one is just an indicator of the intelligence level of the vandals.

Edited November 24, 2016 by aquatus1