Gen. "Mad Dog" Mattis Secretary of Defense

[+and-then]

49 minutes ago, Yamato said:

People need to learn how to chill and coexist in the world already.

People usually can... it's nations that can't.  Too many contending egos and desires.  But you know that already so why the ridiculous plea for Utopia?  Wars begin when powers decide to expand their grasp.  They end when everyone is exhausted or defeated and subjugated.  We rest, re-arm and go after it again.  It's the cruelest sport known to man.

[preacherman76]

13 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

I sincerely hope Trump understands it is a bit more difficult to get rid of his picks than merely by telling them "You're fired."

He doesn't have to fire them. He could easily tell them they can do nothing without his approval. He's the commander of all armed forces. Disobeying a lawful order is a criminal offense 

[RavenHawk]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

One thing not many seem to get is, Mad dog works for Trump, not the other way around.

If ever Trump has to fire Mattis, some here will go on a tirade of how bad Trump is and that he should have never done that as Mattis was democratically elected.

[aquatus1]

31 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

He doesn't have to fire them. He could easily tell them they can do nothing without his approval. He's the commander of all armed forces. Disobeying a lawful order is a criminal offense 

Well, that would then become a discussion regarding how strong a person Trump is, vs someone like Mattis...

[RavenHawk]

39 minutes ago, Ashotep said:

No one said its war or its do nothing. 

Some just don’t understand that.  They don’t understand that war is the last option.  That a nation should try every other possibility first.  But you have just too many arm-chair generals that feel that if they are not made aware of these other efforts up front that when it gets to war, they feel we have rushed to war.

 

All I said was if we are going to start a war we should be in it to win it and because I said that you go off about how we can't fight ISIS in 32 countries, we shouldn't be trying to win unwinnable wars. 

Some people are just swayed too easily.  There really is no such thing as an unwinnable war.  It’s just a more complex problem.  With the right force of will and the right plan, all wars are winnable (there are always exceptions an all out nuclear war is one).  If the plan is whack-a-mole then that’s what we do, but I suspect that there are more clever ways to do it.  The invasion of Iraq was a masterstroke.  It put us right in the middle where we could have better controlled radical groups.  The Islamic world has been without a Caliphate for 90 years.  This is a void that has gone on too long and it screams in the Islamic world for someone to do something.  Even if ISIS is defeated, something else would soon take its place.  Because Obama pulled us out of Iraq has assured that we will only have the last resort left and the cost of blood and treasure will be greater.  Maybe Dunford, Flynn, Mattis, Sec of State and Trump will find another way besides whack-a-mole?  It’s not unwinnable but it is difficult.

 

I don't know for sure what you are even advocating, that we should just give up fighting ISIS.  Run with our tails tucked between our legs and just let them kill and maim their way across the middle east because we can't win. 

He advocates appeasement.  Nothing less.  He doesn’t understand Human Nature and history is lost on him.  Atrocities won’t be only across the Middle East.  Hijrah is active in Europe and here.  Appeasement only brings death and destruction to your side.

 

I do agree the government starts wars sometimes they shouldn't.  Sometimes we should just stay out of it.

That is definitely 20-20 hindsight.  There’s also the converse, if we didn’t get into a war, we might end up being defeated.  Sometimes wrong choices are made, but you don’t say oops in mid-stream and go home.  Win the conflict first, then analyze it later.  By doing things this way, a nation gains experience and then can avoid such mistakes next time as opposed to not learning anything if one is too timid to lead.

 

What does the war on drugs have to do with the war against ISIS.  Just thought you would throw that in there.  Personally I think drugs is a medical problem for the most part and should be treated as such and marijuana shouldn't even be illegal, should be treated like alcohol.  I say most part because anyone making meth or these other dangerous drugs should go to jail but not the people using it, they need treatment.  Treatment and education will be what wins the war on drugs.

I agree that Marijuana should not be made illegal for users but it is still a dangerous drug.  There needs to be exemptions for legitimate medical use.  But the way to control it is through the pocketbook.  Leave it up to business to run random p*** tests and establish policy.  If you have the choice between employment (hopefully a stronger drug) and getting high, responsible people will choose their livelihood.

 

You bomb my house with marijuana seeds and I'll spray you with weed killer.

Don’t do that.  Just get Monsanto to develop GMO marijuana.

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, aquatus1 said:

Well, that would then become a discussion regarding how strong a person Trump is, vs someone like Mattis...

Yea, and I admit, we don't know yet. He's been a boss for a long time though, so its not like he is unfamiliar with the territory.  

[Farmer77]

2 hours ago, Ashotep said:

 

What does the war on drugs have to do with the war against ISIS. 

At its core the war on drugs is nothing more than a sham to keep government employees employed and stocked with weaponry and at its core so is the war on terror.  

 

[preacherman76]

11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

At its core the war on drugs is nothing more than a sham to keep government employees employed and stocked with weaponry and at its core so is the war on terror.  

 

Yep.

I cant stand the idea of a war on drugs. But if they really wanted to win it, they could. They could take out 80% of the worlds heroin within a week. Instead we protect those poppy fields.

[aquatus1]

41 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Yea, and I admit, we don't know yet. He's been a boss for a long time though, so its not like he is unfamiliar with the territory.  

I'm afraid that's what Trump will think as well.  Being a president of a company is not the same as being the president of a country.

[.ZZ.]

1 hour ago, aquatus1 said:

I'm afraid that's what Trump will think as well.  Being a president of a company is not the same as being the president of a country.

...and being a community organizer from Chicago that never held a real job is not the same as being president either.  

[preacherman76]

33 minutes ago, -ZZ- said:

...and being a community organizer from Chicago that never held a real job is not the same as being president either.  

That's true. No one really can be fully prepared to step into that position, as there is none other like it. Trump really has a lot more experience in rolls of authority then probably any president in history. 

[danielost]

On 12/2/2016 at 5:40 AM, ChaosRose said:

Just another example of how Trump doesn't know or care about the rules, because they have never applied to him...and are far less likely to at this point. 

you mean the rules that have been destroying this country.  i hope he doesn't, that is why i voted for him.

[danielost]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

At its core the war on drugs is nothing more than a sham to keep government employees employed and stocked with weaponry and at its core so is the war on terror.  

 

which is meant to keep the economy from falling with all those gov. employees looking for work.

[Farmer77]

5 minutes ago, danielost said:

which is meant to keep the economy from falling with all those gov. employees looking for work.

Not sure if this was sarcasm?

[Kurzweil]

 

[aquatus1]

21 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

That's true. No one really can be fully prepared to step into that position, as there is none other like it. Trump really has a lot more experience in rolls of authority then probably any president in history. 

I disagree.  Trump is famous for surrounding himself with yes men.  He is equally famous for getting rid of people that disagree with him (heck, the habit is so ingrained in him that he even threatened Hillary with it).  That doesn't indicate a man with experience in authority; it indicates a man experienced with getting his own way.

As opposed to, say 8 years as a state senator, 4 years in the U.S. Senate, like Obama.  Or even being the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, or even a  university professor.

But, by all means, let's ignore all that, and pretend all Obama ever did was be an unemployed community organizer.

[danielost]

27 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Not sure if this was sarcasm?

no

[danielost]

14 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

I disagree.  Trump is famous for surrounding himself with yes men.  He is equally famous for getting rid of people that disagree with him (heck, the habit is so ingrained in him that he even threatened Hillary with it).  That doesn't indicate a man with experience in authority; it indicates a man experienced with getting his own way.

As opposed to, say 8 years as a state senator, 4 years in the U.S. Senate, like Obama.  Or even being the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, or even a  university professor.

But, by all means, let's ignore all that, and pretend all Obama ever did was be an unemployed community organizer.

correction, two years in the us senate.  and he never did the job, since he was running for president.

[Farmer77]

33 minutes ago, danielost said:

which is meant to keep the economy from falling with all those gov. employees looking for work.

I guess first I have to say thats kind of backwards logic. We spend an unbelievable amount of money on the faux drug and terror "wars" which could instantly be freed up and put back into the general budget were they to end. Then when you look at the economic successes of states which have legalized marijuana you can see entire industries popping up not just creating jobs but also an unbelievable amount of tax revenue. Now spread that across 50 states , AND throw in the industrial use of hemp products and this nation would be juuuust fine financially. 

and i guess finally Id rather be free and broke than living in a nation that destroys lives in the name of profit. 

[aquatus1]

1 minute ago, danielost said:

correction, two years in the us senate.  and he never did the job, since he was running for president.

Meh.  Let's say three years, since he officially resigned from his position in the senate on Nov 16th, 2008.  So, technically, 2 years, 11 months.

Have we belabored that enough, or are we still holding his missing year in the senate after being promoted to U.S. President?

Can we agree that it is intellectually dishonest to pretend Obama had no experience, both in the civilian sector (as a lawyer and university professor), and in government service (10+ years of it)?

[danielost]

10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I guess first I have to say thats kind of backwards logic. We spend an unbelievable amount of money on the faux drug and terror "wars" which could instantly be freed up and put back into the general budget were they to end. Then when you look at the economic successes of states which have legalized marijuana you can see entire industries popping up not just creating jobs but also an unbelievable amount of tax revenue. Now spread that across 50 states , AND throw in the industrial use of hemp products and this nation would be juuuust fine financially. 

and i guess finally Id rather be free and broke than living in a nation that destroys lives in the name of profit. 

there arre a million people in the military if all the wars ended and we didn't need them around 1/2 a million would be looking for work.  the government never returns money they spend it on something including the military.  i don't know how many people work for the government on the war on drugs but if they weren't needed that would add to the half million military.

[danielost]

13 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

Meh.  Let's say three years, since he officially resigned from his position in the senate on Nov 16th, 2008.  So, technically, 2 years, 11 months.

Have we belabored that enough, or are we still holding his missing year in the senate after being promoted to U.S. President?

Can we agree that it is intellectually dishonest to pretend Obama had no experience, both in the civilian sector (as a lawyer and university professor), and in government service (10+ years of it)?

he never had a real job.  his job was asking for money.  until he became president, then he just took.

[preacherman76]

21 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

I disagree.  Trump is famous for surrounding himself with yes men.  He is equally famous for getting rid of people that disagree with him (heck, the habit is so ingrained in him that he even threatened Hillary with it).  That doesn't indicate a man with experience in authority; it indicates a man experienced with getting his own way.

As opposed to, say 8 years as a state senator, 4 years in the U.S. Senate, like Obama.  Or even being the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, or even a  university professor.

But, by all means, let's ignore all that, and pretend all Obama ever did was be an unemployed community organizer.

Ya just couldn't do it hu? Probably the first conversation we have ever had, even if it was only two posts where we were just talking and you had to be a jerk. SMH

 

Getting your own way is exactly what being the boss is all about. Surrounding himself with people who are gonna support and make come to pass his idea's as the boss, is exactly what every boss does. Sounds like you are just criticizing for the sake of criticism.

Being a senator hardly gives you authority over people, aside from a team of lawyers who probably tell him more then he tells them. He wasn't in control of anything. Speaking of getting rid of people though, we are talking about a man who fired several top military brass who knew far more about warfare then he will ever dream of, so he could continue his bloody rampage across the middle east uncontested. Yea that's good stuff there.

Im not saying he didn't have accomplishments. I mean its a little strange that after becoming the first half black president of the Harvard Law Review, he went on to become a community organizer, but hey, who am I to judge? Its also kinda strange that in 2008 he represented his district under 36% of the time, missing over just over 64% of the one actual responsibility he had, voting.

I haven't ignored anything. Nothing about his resume made me believe he had experience with positions of authority. Certainly not on the level Trump has.

 

 

[Yamato]

8 hours ago, Ashotep said:

No one said its war or its do nothing. 

 

No, that's exactly what you said.  Either try to win the war, or throw up our hands and do nothing.  

 

Quote

I do agree the government starts wars sometimes they shouldn't.  Sometimes we should just stay out of it.

Uh huh.  Which times?   And why?   

 

Quote

 

What does the war on drugs have to do with the war against ISIS. 

 

Like I said, it's another dumb war that they'll never win no matter how many lives they destroy trying.   This is a time we should just stay out of it.

The difference is even worse.  The war on ISIS is far more stupid than even the mind numbingly dumb war on drugs.   The analogy would be:  "There's drugs in 32 countries!  Quick!  Get Gen. Mattis so we can keep trying to win!"    If we can't understand how dumb that is, there will never be a war dumb enough to prevent.  

I don't know if it's stupidity, addiction, or insanity that even when we're able to admit a mistake, we're still unable to stop repeating it.   I propose that the next country we invade will be another mistake.

Here's a challenge for everyone that'll cut this to the chase:  How many US lives is Iran worth?    What's the limit on how many US combatants die overthrowing Iran's govt, installing a puppet democracy, nation-building, 25 years of military occupation, and all that?   

Let's say that Donald Trump could cut a really great deal and make a profit on it for the oil companies!   How many of our soldiers' lives is that worth?  

Let's start asking questions about what we're doing in the world right now, before we make another mess.

[Ashotep]

17 hours ago, Yamato said:

No, that's exactly what you said.  Either try to win the war, or throw up our hands and do nothing.  

 

 

 

On 12/2/2016 at 9:15 AM, Ashotep said:

If you are going to start a war you should be in it to win it.