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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas

(Theoretical) Space Colonization

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas

In my vision, i think that we would be better off building artificial gravity sustained cities in space rather than colonies on mars or any other planet... 

Firstly, colonizing Mars would be incredibly complicated for travelling reasons and for the lack of gravity. Plus the huge sand storms and other hazards that can occur there. With such a low gravity, health can be severely depraved and the body would start to mutate into a different species as the generations pass. 

Secondly, Colonizing Venus is next to impossible right now although there is a layer of atmosphere on that planet that is suitable for human life and sky cities could be a thing the amount of resources needed to keep the city flying could be far greater than making a spinning ring colony in space...

Now don't get me wrong, i loves me some planetary colonization... it's just like in all those movies and video games that i used to play and watch. But in reality i think that building ring cities in space that can spin to generate the 1G of gravity, which is perfect for terrestrial life, would be far cheaper and they could be built in the orbit of Earth thus travelling distances would be highly reduced... And planets like Mars, Venus and Mercury plus the asteroid belt could eventually become mines of material for different tech and structures... It may sound evil if you are a planet lover but from a planet the size of Venus we could build a space city the size of Saturn. Farming land included plus spacious habitats for any lovely human out there... 

Space is so vast and so empty, only 3% of the visible universe is filled with matter... the rest is space and exotic forms of matter and energy that we can't live off or interact with in any useful way as of yet... So expanding a whole sphere of metals and rocks into a vast array of cities to occupy more of this huge solar system and have a lot of farming land artificially created from those materials could fuel human existence for millions possibly billions of years... And we won't be stuck when the sun starts to expand...

In a way we would be expanding the habitat of earth in the vast emptiness that is space...

What do you think? Should we eventually become a space civilization that mines the planets till there is no more planet so that we could build our perfect habitat thus keeping this beautiful human form we have for a very long time?

Or Should we live on different worlds allowing the cosmic mother nature to reshape our human form till there would be billions of other kinds of humans all over the galaxy?

OR should we do both? 

I am more of a miner myself... i think that exploiting the material in the universe to build our cities and eventually becoming able to create our own stars and build cities around them with artificial land masses that could be used for vistas and farming is more of a logical and profitable outcome

Leave your ideas and comments so that we could develop more on this... 

colonie-russie-lune_02E401DE01582612.jpg

AC75-1086-1f.jpeg

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons
Title edit
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danielost

i didn't read all of the op.  but mars has gravity.  if you build under ground you don;t have to worry about sand storms or radiation.  man does not evolve.  and if he did he would evolve on a space station too.  so you would end up with different species anyways.

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toast
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Venus (...) although there is a layer of atmosphere on that planet that is suitable for human life

No.

Quote

... and eventually becoming able to create our own stars ...

No.

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StarMountainKid

A habitat in space would be a large engineering project, but it could be started small and be developed. Also, there would have to be a good reason to construct it. Colonizing Mars I think would be just as immense and expensive a project. If a space habitat could be designed to replicate Earth's environment, i think it could succeed.

A space colony would also have to be desirable to live in. It would have to be a better place to live than on the planet. Perhaps a new Dubi and Abu Dhabi, a home for the wealthy and work for the commoners.

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
9 hours ago, toast said:

No.

No.

Don't get me wrong, The layer of atmosphere from Venus that i mentioned isn't breathable... it merely has the pressure needed so that you could go outside with a minimum of protection for your lungs and skin. it is a place where your body isn't squashed and melted by the pressure, temperature and constant sulfuric acid rains or your blood being boiled away by the lack of pressure... That layer has the temperature and pressure of that of earth's atmosphere, no more.

Also about us being able to build our own stars yes... Thousands or hundreds of thousands of years in the future when the technology is sufficiently advanced all that it takes is a machine that can somehow generate a gravity field or any attracting or telekinetic force in a cloud of hydrogen so that it kick-starts the accretion process then another technology that could accelerate the rate at which the star grows an there you go a custom built star for us...

Then the hydrogen part every molecule of matter that currently exists has, at some point, started off as an atom of hydrogen. Then with the billions of years of nuclear fusion in the cores of various stars they where turned into all the elements we are now composed of... so making hydrogen in the far future would be as easy as reverting the fusion process (nuclear fission) and turning that molecule of iron, carbon or helium back into multiple atoms of hydrogen... Then with big enough quantities of that hydrogen you could build a new star...

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
Quote

there would have to be a good reason to construct it

To avoid natural, apocalyptic disasters such as a super-volcano eruption or an asteroid or comet comes crushing down on the only world we happen to live on etc...

Quote

A habitat in space would be a large engineering project

It doesn't have to start out large... it could be modular and as technology progresses bigger and bigger modules can be added then when a big enough habitable space colony is set people could, more easily start building directly from space and from there on if the technology is available

Quote

A space colony would also have to be desirable to live in.

you could build really cool looking space cities that can also be filled with artificial landscapes for the view...

Quote

a home for the wealthy and work for the commoners.

Hopefully by that day humanity would have balanced the economy in such a way that every human would have a home in space just as good looking as a rich person... there would't be anymore rich and poor... that should be a shameful history in the books of humanity...

cc789f88e1ac32148d824c5fd5844824.jpg

Edited by Raul-Relvion D'Kallas

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toast
10 hours ago, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

Don't get me wrong, The layer of atmosphere from Venus that i mentioned isn't breathable... it merely has the pressure needed so that you could go outside with a minimum of protection for your lungs and skin. it is a place where your body isn't squashed and melted by the pressure, temperature and constant sulfuric acid rains or your blood being boiled away by the lack of pressure... That layer has the temperature and pressure of that of earth's atmosphere, no more

There is no layer within the atmosphere of Venus thats habitable for humans. If you think otherwise pls name the layer.

Quote

Also about us being able to build our own stars yes... Thousands or hundreds of thousands of years in the future when the technology is sufficiently advanced all that it takes is a machine that can somehow generate a gravity field or any attracting or telekinetic force in a cloud of hydrogen so that it kick-starts the accretion process then another technology that could accelerate the rate at which the star grows an there you go a custom built star for us...

I cannot comment this, or better said, I`m not willing to because a dialogue about physical issues is finaly useless in case esoteric nonsense, like "telekinetic forces", has been added to the discussion.

Quote

Then the hydrogen part every molecule of matter that currently exists has, at some point, started off as an atom of hydrogen. Then with the billions of years of nuclear fusion in the cores of various stars they where turned into all the elements we are now composed of... so making hydrogen in the far future would be as easy as reverting the fusion process (nuclear fission) and turning that molecule of iron, carbon or helium back into multiple atoms of hydrogen... Then with big enough quantities of that hydrogen you could build a new star...

Its no problem in general to like SiFi but I`m in the opinion that you have lost the link to the reality. Maybe you should school yourself about what exactly happen inside stars with hydrogen, for what reason exactly this process delivers heat and why this heat/energy cannot be taken back and collected, especially not in a Universe that is expanding.

Edited by toast
Spell-O-Rama

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AdealJustice

have we even taken any step towards creating artificial gravity? dragonball z comes to mind lol

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StarMountainKid

I think it's a good idea and likely if humanity continues to progress technologically will eventually come to pass.

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AdealJustice
2 hours ago, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

There is centrifugal force that causes the artificial gravity...*snip*.

woah, cool it. I like these ideas. I'm all for the development of artificial gravity. I didn't come across to you as apprehensive, I didn't even say anything other than asking a genuine question and a reference to one of my favorite anime's use of artificial gravity.  Just a tip, before accusing others of some personal life drama don't react the way you did, the only person who seems to have severe insecurities, personal drama here seems to be you. cool it and lets have a proper discussion. I'm all for these ideas.



http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130121-worth-the-weight

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons
removed quoted content

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toast
2 hours ago, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

*snip*

*snip*

 

Pending answer:

Quote

There is no layer within the atmosphere of Venus thats habitable for humans. If you think otherwise pls name the layer.

PS: Perry Rhodan is not a real person.

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons
removed quoted content

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Derek Willis
1 hour ago, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

There is centrifugal force that causes the artificial gravity...

A centrifugal force is a fictitious - i.e. imaginary - force. When an object rotates, the centripetal force is a real force acting towards the center. In the case of a rotating spaceship, the hull provides the centripetal force. The reactive force to this is what is experienced as artificial gravity.

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
58 minutes ago, AdealJustice said:

woah, cool it. I like these ideas. I'm all for the development of artificial gravity. I didn't come across to you as apprehensive, I didn't even say anything other than asking a genuine question and a reference to one of my favorite anime's use of artificial gravity.  Just a tip, before accusing others of some personal life drama don't react the way you did, the only person who seems to have severe insecurities, personal drama here seems to be you. cool it and lets have a proper discussion. I'm all for these ideas.



http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130121-worth-the-weight

Sorry that i had mentioned you out there this wasn't thrown your way... and i admit that today i was a little stressed out... It was the other guy, MR. Toast the "president of the galaxy", who kept and keeps throwing a hostile tone at my replies... yeah my bad... so let us continue then... 

Edited by Raul-Relvion D'Kallas

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
Quote

the centripetal force is a real force acting towards the center. In the case of a rotating spaceship, the hull provides the centripetal force. The reactive force to this is what is experienced as artificial gravity.

Sorry my bad... rushed at typing i meant centripetal force... thanks for the correction

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StarMountainKid

Has anyone read the science fiction novel, 'Ringworld' by Larry Niven?

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
7 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Has anyone read the science fiction novel, 'Ringworld' by Larry Niven?

Ummmm... why didn't they made a movie based on that awesome book?

The ring world's way of building a ring around the sun is kinda where i was headed with this subject but it isn't quite that good at occupying space... i mean there is just a ring around the sun and the rest of the solar system's space?

Also, just how much material would be needed to complete such an ambitious task? do we have enough solid planets, moons and asteroids in this solar system? There was a theory proposed by DR. Michio Kaku that by using carbon nanotubes  we could theoretically complete such a feat of engineering by only using the whole of planet Venus... or less... if i'm correct

Edited by Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
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StarMountainKid

In my imagination I can imagine such a space city eventually declaring itself a sovereign nation. It would be easier to govern because of population control, it could expand its area as needed and it could have its own protective weaponry for security. On Earth civilization could deteriorate, but the space city could maintain its society in isolation from any problems on the planet.

All this could be a science fiction story in itself.

 

 

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toast
20 minutes ago, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

Sorry that i had mentioned you out there this wasn't thrown your way... and i admit that today i was a little stressed out... It was the other guy, MR. Toast the "president of the galaxy", who kept and keeps throwing a hostile tone at my replies... yeah my bad... so let us continue then... 

None of my post in this thread contains any hostility and if someone, like me, is scrutinizing your claims and you name that hostility then you maybe forgot yr first post request:

Quote

Leave your ideas and comments so that we could develop more on this... 

But anyway, if I`m in the opinion that you claims and statements are irrational (example: telekinesis blabla), I will continue to respond to.

Still pending:

Quote

There is no layer within the atmosphere of Venus thats habitable for humans. If you think otherwise pls name the layer.

 

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Raul-Relvion D'Kallas
5 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

In my imagination I can imagine such a space city eventually declaring itself a sovereign nation. It would be easier to govern because of population control, it could expand its area as needed and it could have its own protective weaponry for security. On Earth civilization could deteriorate, but the space city could maintain its society in isolation from any problems on the planet.

All this could be a science fiction story in itself.

 

 

Not necessarily a science fiction story... there is actually a new country that has been founded... i don't know if you have heard of Asgardia... it is actually a real thing. you can search on the interned about Asgardia. 

Building a civilization in space it is the best idea since it is actually boundaryless. You could, theoretically build a city the size of the solar system or bigger if you somehow managed to bypass the problems caused by gravity and too much mass... but that is if you had enough solid material to build such a city... we only have like 4 telluric planets plus a few solid moons the rest is volatile materials that cannot be used in building space structures... 

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

Welcome To UM Raul, please take the time to review the forum rules. The expectation for all members is to be civil and courteous and as such I have removed some posts.

As this sections is normally reserved for scientific based discussions, I will edit your topic title to reflect that this is theoretical discussion.

-Dot

 

 

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StarMountainKid
2 hours ago, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

Not necessarily a science fiction story... there is actually a new country that has been founded... i don't know if you have heard of Asgardia... it is actually a real thing. you can search on the interned about Asgardia. 

Building a civilization in space it is the best idea since it is actually boundaryless. You could, theoretically build a city the size of the solar system or bigger if you somehow managed to bypass the problems caused by gravity and too much mass... but that is if you had enough solid material to build such a city... we only have like 4 telluric planets plus a few solid moons the rest is volatile materials that cannot be used in building space structures... 

Yes, I've had a Asgardia join form on the computer for a while, just not filled it out. I think a space city or nation would have to have some exclusivity in immigration being limited in size. This alone may cause resentments back on Earth. There's a line of thought that in the future humans will somehow become rational, peaceful and enlightened. My view is that humans will continue to be human into the future, which means irrational, vengeful and stupid.

However, in an exclusive club that a space city my become, society there may develop in more positive ways, mostly by keeping out the riff-raff. I wonder what the requisites would be to immigrate there?

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Yamato
On 12/7/2016 at 2:43 PM, toast said:

There is no layer within the atmosphere of Venus thats habitable for humans. If you think otherwise pls name the layer.

Since you keep belaboring this point:

Despite the harsh conditions on the surface, the atmospheric pressure and temperature at about 50 km to 65 km above the surface of the planet is nearly the same as that of the Earth, making its upper atmosphere the most Earth-like area in the Solar System, even more so than the surface of Mars. Due to the similarity in pressure and temperature and the fact that breathable air (21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen) is a lifting gas on Venus in the same way that helium is a lifting gas on Earth, the upper atmosphere has been proposed as a location for both exploration and colonization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus

 

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toast
4 hours ago, Yamato said:

Since you keep belaboring this point:

Despite the harsh conditions on the surface, the atmospheric pressure and temperature at about 50 km to 65 km above the surface of the planet is nearly the same as that of the Earth, making its upper atmosphere the most Earth-like area in the Solar System, even more so than the surface of Mars. Due to the similarity in pressure and temperature and the fact that breathable air (21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen) is a lifting gas on Venus in the same way that helium is a lifting gas on Earth, the upper atmosphere has been proposed as a location for both exploration and colonization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus

 

Thats no news to me but maybe for the OP who wasnt aware what s/he is talking about, see pending response and this comment:

Quote

...it merely has the pressure needed so that you could go outside ...

 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
On 7/12/2016 at 10:44 PM, Raul-Relvion D'Kallas said:

Ummmm... why didn't they made a movie based on that awesome book?

The ring world's way of building a ring around the sun is kinda where i was headed with this subject but it isn't quite that good at occupying space... i mean there is just a ring around the sun and the rest of the solar system's space?

Also, just how much material would be needed to complete such an ambitious task? do we have enough solid planets, moons and asteroids in this solar system? There was a theory proposed by DR. Michio Kaku that by using carbon nanotubes  we could theoretically complete such a feat of engineering by only using the whole of planet Venus... or less... if i'm correct

Only..... :rolleyes:

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Emma_Acid
On 12/9/2016 at 11:41 AM, Yamato said:

Since you keep belaboring this point:

Despite the harsh conditions on the surface, the atmospheric pressure and temperature at about 50 km to 65 km above the surface of the planet is nearly the same as that of the Earth, making its upper atmosphere the most Earth-like area in the Solar System, even more so than the surface of Mars. Due to the similarity in pressure and temperature and the fact that breathable air (21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen) is a lifting gas on Venus in the same way that helium is a lifting gas on Earth, the upper atmosphere has been proposed as a location for both exploration and colonization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus

 

I've heard this before as well, not sure of its scientific validity though. I presume it was what the OP was talking about.

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