Will John Kelly Re-Militarize the Drug War?

[Wickian]

7 hours ago, and then said:

Just curious, is there any drug that you feel should never be legalized?  For me, methamphetamine would never be a useful substance and should be eliminated by whatever means necessary.  The rest could be de-criminalized or legalized as long as the individuals that use them and harm someone else could be held accountable.  Using the military to intercept traffickers would be costly, casualties would be high and ultimately it would only drive up prices for the product.  Since people have always and will always seek an altered state of consciousness, the only long term answer is severe punishment for those who harm others while intoxicated.  Personal responsibility is the only way out of this maze.

Anything that causes rapid addiction and has a severe withdrawal cycle.

[aztek]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

No problem buddy. Lets all just throw our hands in the air and surrender to the inevitable. Is that what you think is right? Or actually try to give people and society a chance to grow up.

no, lets fight unwinnable war at the cost  of everyone else, and be proud that you achieved  absolutely nothing.  that seems to be your way.

maybe your understanding of how to deal with issue is a fallacy that creates more problems.  well that makes you even bigger problem than drugs.

[aztek]

40 minutes ago, Wickian said:

Anything that causes rapid addiction and has a severe withdrawal cycle.

nicotine is the most addictive drug, it kills more than any other drug, and it is legal. 

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

nicotine is the most addictive drug, it kills more than any other drug, and it is legal. 

and im hooked on it like it was oxygen. I go through damn near violent withdrawals if i go more than an hour or so without a chew. 

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

and im hooked on it like it was oxygen. I go through damn near violent withdrawals if i go more than an hour or so without a chew. 

 Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following: More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/

in 2011 there was less than 3000 deaths from meth.

http://drugabuse.com/library/methamphetamine-history-and-statistics/

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by aztek

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

 Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following: More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)

Yeah one nice thing about chewing tobacco is im at least not taking anyone down with me. Im even polite and  use pouches so noone even knows im chewing. 

[SHaYap]

I smoke tobacco but I can't stand cigarettes ... mainly due to things like these ...

~

 

Quote

 

List of additives in cigarettes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

This is the list of 599 additives in cigarettes submitted to the United States Department of Health and Human Services in April 1994. It applies, as documented, only to American manufactured cigarettes intended for distribution within the United States by the listed companies. The five major tobacco companies that reported the information were:

• American Tobacco Company
• Brown and Williamson
• Liggett Group, Inc.
• Philip Morris Inc.
• R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company

One significant issue is that while all these chemical compounds have been approved as additives to food, they were not tested by burning. Burning changes the properties of chemicals. More than 4,000 chemical compounds are created by burning a cigarette, 69 of which are carcinogenic.^[1][2]

 

 

• wiki link

~

I've heard often enough that ciggies are not as harmful as plain tobacco but I guess I don't know any better ... I choke on cigarettes now just as I gag over chemically packaged process foods ... I can't explain it ... its just a reflex I get but the people around me just gets on as usual except the next day they get the runs and head + tummy aches ...

~

 

 

[Wickian]

25 minutes ago, aztek said:

nicotine is the most addictive drug, it kills more than any other drug, and it is legal. 

In a fair world it wouldn't be while other drugs that are all around less harmful are illegal, but oh well.

[spartan max2]

Decriminalization of the users is a must. 

Drug abuse is a system of other things. It's self medication. We need to treat It as a mental health problem. 

 

Edit: Oh and just to add. Marajuina should be legal. But to the people that deny it has any negative effects in a study they found marajuina users have less blood going to the brain 

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20161128/Study-finds-abnormally-low-blood-flow-in-the-brain-of-marijuana-users.aspx

Edited December 9, 2016 by spartan max2

[aztek]

kinda strange, since weed dilutes arteries and increases blood flow, 

however if we read list of side effects for simple blood pressure meds, and read reviews of those meds by people that take it, weed is not nearly as bad in comparison .

also there are natural remedies to increase blood flow to the brain, i do not think many potheads do that.

http://www.wikihow.com/Increase-Blood-Flow-to-the-Brain

Edited December 9, 2016 by aztek

[Farmer77]

14 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Decriminalization of the users is a must. 

Drug abuse is a system of other things. It's self medication. We need to treat It as a mental health problem. 

 

Edit: Oh and just to add. Marajuina should be legal. But to the people that deny it has any negative effects in a study they found marajuina users have less blood going to the brain 

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20161128/Study-finds-abnormally-low-blood-flow-in-the-brain-of-marijuana-users.aspx

Its interesting that was published in an Alzheimers journal.  

A preclinical study published in the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease found that very small doses of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a chemical found in marijuana, can slow the production of beta-amyloid proteins, thought to be a hallmark characteristic and key contributor to the progression of Alzheimer’s.  The Effects of Medical Marijuana on Alzheimer’s Treatment 

Not that that deters from your point. This study was just fresh on my mind. 

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its interesting that was published in an Alzheimers journal.  

A preclinical study published in the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease found that very small doses of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a chemical found in marijuana, can slow the production of beta-amyloid proteins, thought to be a hallmark characteristic and key contributor to the progression of Alzheimer’s.  The Effects of Medical Marijuana on Alzheimer’s Treatment 

Not that that deters from your point. This study was just fresh on my mind. 

Im not trying to say that there are not also possible benifits to things from it as well.

Just a plant that needs a lot of reaserch

[Farmer77]

Just now, spartan max2 said:

Im not trying to say that there are not also possible benifits to things from it as well.

Just a plant that needs a lot of reaserch

Agreed. As a father who uses medicinal marijuana I have worked really hard to drill that along with the damaging effects it can have on brain development for minors into my kids. 

 

[RavenHawk]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

The following chart is a couple of years old but it highlights my point perfectly. Alcohol related deaths outnumber drug related deaths by a massive margin. Yet through conditioning its not even questioned in our society whether alcohol is worse than drugs (nevermind that alcohol IS a drug) . So somehow we have an entire war on substances which are by the numbers killing about half as many people as something you can walk into the store and purchase. 

This is more out of curiosity than anything else, but…  Deaths from drugs isn’t the only concern.  Addictions to drugs can affect other things as well without killing but are just as detrimental.  Intelligence can be destroyed.  Personality can be erratically modified.  Behavior can become aggressive.  Rational thought can diminish.  Awareness is affected.  Common sense is lost.  Just being caring and courteous has no meaning.  These are the areas that Marijuana attack.  I’ve seen what continuous use of Marijuana does to people.  It may not outright kill them but their zest for life slowly dies.

[Farmer77]

7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

This is more out of curiosity than anything else, but…  Deaths from drugs isn’t the only concern.  Addictions to drugs can affect other things as well without killing but are just as detrimental.  Intelligence can be destroyed.  Personality can be erratically modified.  Behavior can become aggressive.  Rational thought can diminish.  Awareness is affected.  Common sense is lost.  Just being caring and courteous has no meaning.  These are the areas that Marijuana attack.  I’ve seen what continuous use of Marijuana does to people.  It may not outright kill them but their zest for life slowly dies.

That has nothing to do with marijuana and everything to do with the individual. I could have made the exact same post about alcohol. Well except throw in some violence. 

 

Wait i just realized you posted that marijuana use makes you aggressive  

Edited December 9, 2016 by Farmer77

[RavenHawk]

I believe that the government does not have the right to tell people what they can or cannot put in their bodies.  That is not its realm.  And neither should the government legalize or delegalize drugs but provide guidance on use an awareness of the dangers so that the people can decide.  But it is the function of government to provide border security, whether it is via a wall or some kind of comprehensive defensive system utilizing technology, terrain, and manpower.  It should then be up to those businesses that require drug free zones to insure that its employees are drug free.

[preacherman76]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Well no I'm not. But i don't think that alcohol is in the same league as meth and heroin. Nor pot... even though modern strains of pot these days is some powerful chit. And theres the rub. You can control the potency of alcohol where-as you can't illegal drugs like heroin and meth.

Alcohol is much worse then pot when it comes to harmful effects. If my Dad would have just been a pot head, my parents probably would still be together to this day. I also wouldn't have spend over a decade coming to terms and over coming the mental and sometimes physical abuse both myself and my sister suffered

[preacherman76]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

No problem buddy. Lets all just throw our hands in the air and surrender to the inevitable. Is that what you think is right? Or actually try to give people and society a chance to grow up.

Yes. Its better then spending billions of dollars and ruining near countless lives, just to get the same results.

[aztek]

the biggest issue with drugs is not drugs themselves, but criminal activity associated with them.  that would go away, or at least decrease a lot if drugs are legal. that alone makes it worth legalizing. right now drugs are illegal except weed in some states, yet people have no problem getting it.  so what does drug prohibition accomplish if this is the case?  it only keeps drug war going, we all know what it has turned to. now it harms a lot more people that have 0 to do with drugs, 

Edited December 9, 2016 by aztek

[RavenHawk]

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

That has nothing to do with marijuana and everything to do with the individual. I could have made the exact same post about alcohol. Well except throw in some violence. 

It has everything to do with the relationship between the two.

 

Wait i just realized you posted that marijuana use makes you aggressive  

I was trying to be all-inclusive of all drugs, not just marijuana or alcohol or tobacco.

[Farmer77]

9 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

I was trying to be all-inclusive of all drugs, not just marijuana or alcohol or tobacco.

My bad i thought you were speaking specifically of Marijuana. Too much happening at work i should probably step away from the forum LOL 

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

My bad i thought you were speaking specifically of Marijuana. Too much happening at work i should probably step away from the forum LOL 

It wasn’t necessarily you.  I was being my usual self, being terse on a complex thought.

[preacherman76]

I hope Trump keeps a tight leash on this guy and at least leave the states that have legalized pot alone. Hopefully most of the effort will be keeping heroin and coke from crossing the boarder.

[preacherman76]

I also hope he gets our soldiers out of the Afgan poppy fields. SMH, talk about counter productive.

Edited December 9, 2016 by preacherman76

[Yamato]

6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Well no I'm not. But i don't think that alcohol is in the same league as meth and heroin. Nor pot... even though modern strains of pot these days is some powerful chit. And theres the rub. You can control the potency of alcohol where-as you can't illegal drugs like heroin and meth.

Not really.  Like Jesse Ventura said, if potency was a problem then we'd be differentiating 151 proof Bacardi and beer.   The hard liquor is far more potent, the inebriation far more severe per volume.   Nobody's making that distinction with alcohol so why is it even an issue with pot?    Like he said he'd rather go to a pot party than an alcohol party.   Paraphrasing: "The chance of violence is slim to none, at the alcohol party, the chances are 50/50."

The potent pot is healthier than the Mexican imports 10 or 20 years ago because there's less smoke required to get the same buzz.   If you smoke too much pot you don't vomit all over the other party goers.  You don't start fights, cheat on your wife, engage in riskier behaviors, go speed in the car and crash into a minivan full of kids.   You won't even want to leave the house (probably the real social problem with smoking weed).   Keep on smoking it and it'll be nap time.   You'll also probably sleep good and wake up feeling refreshed, no hangover.

Again alcohol is worse than pot with regards to control people have over the dosing.   If someone drinks a beer, they know in 45 minutes or so how that first beer will make them feel.  By then they've already consumed two or three more beers so look out.   Only eating marijuana has the same problem, a time lag in how much one consumes and how they'll ultimately feel.   Smoking pot doesn't have this problem.  You know in 60 seconds the effects it has and if you don't feel more pleasant than you did a minute ago, you won't smoke anymore.  Three hits would be too much for a newbie.   Rick Simpson goes to Amsterdam and smokes their weed which is supposed to be so good, and he doesn't even get high.