CIA says Putin helped Trump win

[ellapenella]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

Am not. 

just checking.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

31 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Am not. 

Are so!

[+Hammerclaw]

22 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

People seem to forget that we are the "United" states of America, as opposed to the nation of America that happens to have fifty states.

Exactly, the united STATES. A sovereign nation of many SOVEREIGN STATES. States aren't mere provinces. Anyway, if the situation was reversed, it would be the Democrats defending the sacred institution, established by the Founding Fathers, of the Electoral College.

[Big Jim]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I don't think that Trump got rich by paying anyone. He rode the system hard and put his creditors away wet. He used Chinese steel to build Trump tower and now he hold's court there attacking the very same country that contributed to his wealth. He employed business and tax practices that while not breaking the law definitely broke the spirt of contributing fairly to the nation he now leeds. 

Lets see after his inauguration how many corners Trump cuts.  

I don't know a single person or business who pays more than they owe in taxes out of a "spirit of contributing fairly".  With a tax code consisting of thousands of pages of minutiae, spelling out the law in nauseating detail, it is acknowledged by both sides, the tax payers and the IRS, that following the law is exactly what is required and no more.  If you follow the law then you are credited with having contributed fairly.  Do you pay more than you owe?  Or is that standard just for the rich?

[spartan max2]

9 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I don't know a single person or business who pays more than they owe in taxes out of a "spirit of contributing fairly".  With a tax code consisting of thousands of pages of minutiae, spelling out the law in nauseating detail, it is acknowledged by both sides, the tax payers and the IRS, that following the law is exactly what is required and no more.  If you follow the law then you are credited with having contributed fairly.  Do you pay more than you owe?  Or is that standard just for the rich?

At my brothers military base in neveda all the shuttles vehicals have Montana license plates beause of some weird tax code break lol

[Paranormal Panther]

3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Well as an ardent republican i wouldn't expect you say anything less. But I've read plenty of articles that talk about some type of supposed Clinton bias but all i saw and read was the media disregarding Trump's sex allegations, Russian connections and past dishonest business dealings instead focusing on lampooning Trumps hair, building a Mexican wall and his small hands. The lack of honest criticism from the media, from an outsiders perspective, such as mine... reflect's a different view. The FBI intervened 3 times in the election process, unprecedented by any standards and not a single media outlet ( which according to you were supposed to be pro Clinton ), spoke up to criticise the FBI director for exceeding his mandate. The issues that really matter were vaguely discussed when it came to Trump and highly scrutinised every time Clinton opened her mouth.  

You are a blind progressive, so I understand that you can't be objective. I watch the Democratic newscasts on a daily basis, and I *objectively* notice their bias and their propaganda. They indeed mentioned all of the things about Trump that you wrongly claimed were ignored. On the other hand, they almost ignored all of Clinton's problems. 

[Parsec]

14 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

You are a blind progressive, so I understand that you can't be objective. I watch the Democratic newscasts on a daily basis, and I *objectively* notice their bias and their propaganda. They indeed mentioned all of the things about Trump that you wrongly claimed were ignored. On the other hand, they almost ignored all of Clinton's problems. 

And what does Hillary Clinto have to do with progressives? Only because she is namely a democrat?

It's like saying that Vanilla Ice is an ice cream, only because he chose that as a nickname!

 

Ice ice baby!

 

 

[Paranormal Panther]

5 minutes ago, Parsec said:

And what does Hillary Clinto have to do with progressives?

That's not a bad question. Maybe you could ask Bernie Sanders.

[Parsec]

5 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

That's not a bad question. Maybe you could ask Bernie Sanders.

Seriously, thinking about it, I wonder if these last 20 years (and next 10) could mimic the first half of the XX century, with a change of paradigm between the two parties, where once again they'll slowly "swap sides".

 

If you consider that in the last elections the democratic candidate was as conservative as it can be, while the republican one is (well, he's apparently a lot of things and a few contradict themeselves) quite progressive in some of his stances, that's something to ponder on.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Big Jim said:

I don't know a single person or business who pays more than they owe in taxes out of a "spirit of contributing fairly".  With a tax code consisting of thousands of pages of minutiae, spelling out the law in nauseating detail, it is acknowledged by both sides, the tax payers and the IRS, that following the law is exactly what is required and no more.  If you follow the law then you are credited with having contributed fairly.  Do you pay more than you owe?  Or is that standard just for the rich?

So its okay for me and you to pay our 30 cents in the dollar BUT for someone that has no need of providing the basics they get off scot free not paying a cent. You wanna hero worship billionaires that got that way by cutting corners that's your business but i certainly won't.  

And she pounced at Monday night’s debate, suggesting that perhaps Mr. Trump was concealing that he had not been so charitable or was not as wealthy as he claimed.

But another possibility she raised — that Mr. Trump had not been paying income taxes — set off a curious response from him that sounded a lot like an admission.

“That makes me smart,” Mr. Trump said after Mrs. Clinton brought up how he had paid no taxes more than two decades ago. When she suggested that Mr. Trump was still paying no federal taxes, and had not done so for many years, Mr. Trump offered another retort: “It would be squandered, too, believe me.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0

[Paranormal Panther]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

That's a big call. Trump has never held public office. He's never been in the military or been accountable to anyone other than the IRS. You know i'm prepared to give Trump the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his presidency but really... the dude reminds me of a car accident waiting to happen. You ever been in a car just before you're about to hit something and everything goes slow motion just before the impact? Well wait for it. 

I see no evidence of the benefit of the doubt from you. I understand why you're not familiar with our media coverage and reporting, though. You're Australian, so you don't understand our MSM. Another mystery is solved.

Trump was very accountable when he built and maintained his billion-dollar enterprises. It's true that he never held a public office before he fairly won the presidency by beating the horrid Clinton. She held public office, so there you go. You can't always judge someone by that.

[Paranormal Panther]

4 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Say's the CIA who told Bush that Saddam had WMD's.

Is this another "slam dunk"? Pass the yellowcake.

[Unusual Tournament]

42 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I see no evidence of the benefit of the doubt from you. I understand why you're not familiar with our media coverage and reporting, though. You're Australian, so you don't understand our MSM. Another mystery is solved.

Trump was very accountable when he built and maintained his billion-dollar enterprises. It's true that he never held a public office before he fairly won the presidency by beating the horrid Clinton. She held public office, so there you go. You can't always judge someone by that.

Don't make excuses for me cause your views are different to mine. I have a pretty good handle on what the election was about and the issues that drove it, even if i live on the other side of the world. In fact the issues are universal. We had a famous Australian businessman that had the same thoughts on tax and when confronted said exactly the same thing as Trump. And i was just as critical of him as i am of Trump. If Clinton hadn't paid tax like Trump the media would have been calling for the guillotine. You too.

I get the reasons why America voted Trump but the truth is that the reasons have more to do with a protest against the establishment than any qualifications of Trump's...which are few and far between. Honestly the best compliment i can give Trump has is that he carries no political baggage and he's a forceful character that carry's a certain type of reassurance to the electorate that he'll get things done. All he has to do is follow through. Lets see. Other than that i fail to see how he was the best candidate. His 2ic has more credibility than Trump. And considering the caliber of past vice presidents that speaks volumes.  

Edited December 17, 2016 by Captain Risky

[The Butler]

5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

 ..... not a single media outlet ( which according to you were supposed to be pro Clinton ), spoke up to criticise the FBI director for exceeding his mandate. The issues that really matter were vaguely discussed when it came to Trump and highly scrutinised every time Clinton opened her mouth.  

That isn't how I remember the story at all. These are just 2 articles from 30th, 31st October.

http://www.mynbc5.com/article/sen-leahy-calls-out-fbi-director-over-clinton-email-investigation/8064562

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/30/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-fbi-director-comey-emails

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by The Butler
Spelling

[docyabut2]

Quote

Weather the Russians  did or not its not Trump`s fault   he only said Putin was a better leader the Obama. if any thing we should improve stopping hacking no matter where it comes from

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by docyabut2

[Unusual Tournament]

3 minutes ago, The Butler said:

That isn't how I remember the story at all. These are just 2 articles form 30th, 31st October.

http://www.mynbc5.com/article/sen-leahy-calls-out-fbi-director-over-clinton-email-investigation/8064562

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/30/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-fbi-director-comey-emails

 

Okay. I never mean't to give the impression that NOTHING was done just that it wasn't in proportion to what was dished out the other end. Anyway the first link ends like this... 

 “He’s on the Hillary Clinton bandwagon,” said Milne during a phone interview. “He’s gonna do what he can to help Hillary Clinton become president and it seems like this is another step on that parade for him.

 

[Paranormal Panther]

36 minutes ago, Parsec said:

Seriously, thinking about it, I wonder if these last 20 years (and next 10) could mimic the first half of the XX century, with a change of paradigm between the two parties, where once again they'll slowly "swap sides".

 

If you consider that in the last elections the democratic candidate was as conservative as it can be, while the republican one is (well, he's apparently a lot of things and a few contradict themeselves) quite progressive in some of his stances, that's something to ponder on.

They seemingly swap or switch positions from time to time. It's been known to happen. There also are changes within political parties. Look at the Democrats. They now care more about tribalism than bread and butter issues. That's why Trump does well with people who feel that that party no longer speaks for them. Clinton doesn't address the issues that are vital to people in regions that suffer the most from a bad economy. She serves power, not the people.

[The Butler]

2 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Okay. I never mean't to give the impression that NOTHING was done just that it wasn't in proportion to what was dished out the other end. Anyway the first link ends like this... 

 “He’s on the Hillary Clinton bandwagon,” said Milne during a phone interview. “He’s gonna do what he can to help Hillary Clinton become president and it seems like this is another step on that parade for him.

 

Touchè.  I'd call that a 'derp' moment for Scott Milne. Or maybe an attempt at news fakery?  I don't think there has ever been any doubt as to where Comey's loyalties lay.  

[Parsec]

Just now, Paranormal Panther said:

They seemingly swap or switch positions from time to time. It's been known to happen. There also are changes within political parties. Look at the Democrats. They now care more about tribalism than bread and butter issues. That's why Trump does well with people who feel that that party no longer speaks for them. Clinton doesn't address the issues that are vital to people in regions that suffer the most from a bad economy. She serves power, not the people.

Agreed (although it's known it happens, but not to many people apparently).

She's quite straight forward in what you could have got with here, while he's more of a questionmark so far.

 

Interesting times.

[docyabut2]

15 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 

 Weather the Russians  did or not its not Trump`s fault   he only said Putin was a better leader the Obama. if any thing we should improve stopping hacking no matter where it comes from

to add like trump said why didn't the dems peruse this before the election  

[Michelle]

19 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

They seemingly swap or switch positions from time to time. It's been known to happen. There also are changes within political parties. Look at the Democrats. They now care more about tribalism than bread and butter issues. That's why Trump does well with people who feel that that party no longer speaks for them. Clinton doesn't address the issues that are vital to people in regions that suffer the most from a bad economy. She serves power, not the people.

During the Bush administration all we heard about was what a warmonger he was. Protests were all the rage. We haven't heard a peep about the horrendous acts of the Obama administration and Hillary was going to be even worse. MSM wasn't reporting much of it so they were oblivious. They still voted for the war hawk Hillary seemingly unaware of any of it.

There is a huge shift in their thinking. They seem to be the epitome of the uniformed voter. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Michelle

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Don't make excuses for me cause your views are different to mine. I have a pretty good handle on what the election was about and the issues that drove it, even if i live on the other side of the world. In fact the issues are universal. We had a famous Australian businessman that had the same thoughts on tax and when confronted said exactly the same thing as Trump. And i was just as critical of him as i am of Trump. If Clinton hadn't paid tax like Trump the media would have been calling for the guillotine. You too.

 

I don't think you do.  

[Paranormal Panther]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Don't make excuses for me cause your views are different to mine. I have a pretty good handle on what the election was about and the issues that drove it, even if i live on the other side of the world. In fact the issues are universal. We had a famous Australian businessman that had the same thoughts on tax and when confronted said exactly the same thing as Trump. And i was just as critical of him as i am of Trump. If Clinton hadn't paid tax like Trump the media would have been calling for the guillotine. You too.

I get the reasons why America voted Trump but the truth is that the reasons have more to do with a protest against the establishment than any qualifications of Trump's...which are few and far between. Honestly the best compliment i can give Trump has is that he carries no political baggage and he's a forceful character that carry's a certain type of reassurance to the electorate that he'll get things done. All he has to do is follow through. Lets see. Other than that i fail to see how he was the best candidate. His 2ic has more credibility than Trump. And considering the caliber of past vice presidents that speaks volumes.  

It's not an excuse. It just seems like you and Astra get information from biased sources. They may not paint a complete picture. They might maximize Trump's sins while they minimize Hillary's sins. That's how the MSM is here, anyway. I don't know how it is in Australia, so I make no conclusions or pronouncements on things of which I'm ignorant. I objectively believe that most of our news outlets are biased to the point of propaganda. It's gotten much worse.

I agree with your point about protest votes against the entrenched establishment of career politicians. That explains part of Trump's success. There's a second main part. The Democrats ran a horrible candidate who certainly lacked the character and the competence to be a good president. That's why they're blaming the kitchen sink instead of learning from their mistake. That's why they have no credibility. That's why allegations of fake news and Russian interference ring hollow. They absolutely refuse to look in the mirror.

[Paranormal Panther]

1 hour ago, Parsec said:

Agreed (although it's known it happens, but not to many people apparently).

She's quite straight forward in what you could have got with here, while he's more of a questionmark so far.

 

Interesting times.

Hillary probably has not been straightforward a day in her life. She may be the worst candidate in our history.

[Paranormal Panther]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

During the Bush administration all we heard about was what a warmonger he was. Protests were all the rage. We haven't heard a peep about the horrendous acts of the Obama administration and Hillary was going to be even worse. MSM wasn't reporting much of it so they were oblivious. They still voted for the war hawk Hillary seemingly unaware of any of it.

There is a huge shift in their thinking. They seem to be the epitome of the uniformed voter. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

I hope that it's just ignorance on their parts. I hope that it's not just blind allegiance to Hillary, right or wrong. You're right to bring up her bellicosity and interventionist views. She's a danger to the world, and it sometimes seems like her cult couldn't care less about peace.